Sony is bleeding money - business strategy discussion

[-tkf-]

I enjoy my HD DVDs as much as my Blu-ray. My biggest issue with BD in the beginning was the lack of standards for hardware and software. Instead of casting so much hatred towards HD DVD why not cast it to the unbelievable amount of shitty transfers...anyway HD DVD combos are still better to me than these BD 4 packs I'm getting simply because I want the 3D version of some titles. I definitely believe HD DVD would have been cheaper for not just the consumer but the CE mfrs as well but its dead so it doesn't matter. BDs scratch resistance is definitely something I like.

Had Blu-Ray lost i would of course have gone with HD-DVD, but i fell 100% vindicated when i preached for "there is not enough space ever". 50GB vs 30GB was my main drive for HD-DVD to die. And behold, we now have 3D movies that just love the extra space, and most Blu-Rays come with a plentitude of audio options.

Screw compromises, give me the best possible medium i can get, and yes, screw bad transfers as well

When i think about it now old hatred for Microsoft boils up, they should have stayed out of the war instead of using it as a way to get to Sony in the Console war. I hope they lost money (which i am paying for with OS and office licenses anyway )

 

[mrcorbo]

That's basically where I'm at, though as you know from our talks I've headed towards a mostly download (legal) world.

For me BluRay is largely just a transport medium to get the content from the studio to my network storage.

 

[patsu]

Blu-ray is currently one of the key drivers for 3D. It can also be used as a reselling channel if Managed Copy + UltraViolet work out. Unless we hear more from Sony, it looks like the studios want to focus on streaming DRM. So we may not get to see the multi-DRM play in the short term.

 

[NavNucST3]

For me BluRay is largely just a transport medium to get the content from the studio to my network storage.

I'm rapidly headed that way. Who thought it was a good idea to go BACKWARDS and make me change discs in the middle of a movie, wtf, Lord of the Rings, -tkf- where's your disc space god now and naturally I want to be floored by the HD and I'm not...ugh!

That is my last media related post mods. We get Sony earnings this week. No one asked but I no longer hold individual shares of Nintendo or Sony and my Microsoft holdings will be outta here pretty soon as well.

 

[-tkf-]

I'm rapidly headed that way. Who thought it was a good idea to go BACKWARDS and make me change discs in the middle of a movie, wtf, Lord of the Rings, -tkf- where's your disc space god now and naturally I want to be floored by the HD and I'm not...ugh!

That is my last media related post mods. We get Sony earnings this week. No one asked but I no longer hold individual shares of Nintendo or Sony and my Microsoft holdings will be outta here pretty soon as well.

Think positive, you only have to get up once with BR instead of twice with HD-DVD?

I actually didn´t know it was spread across more discs.. interesting

 

[AlNom]

Well, do keep in mind that 1080p is 6x the res of 720x480. Even if you're a bit generous with the updated compression scheme, there is still the much higher storage requirement for DTS MA to throw in there as well.

On DVD, the video portion took something just under 6GB per disc with the audio tracks (commentaries and movie audio) taking up the rest.

 

[boommoob1]

Sony look like they're joining the bidding for EMI. $2Billion+ deal. Flummoxed as usual by Stringer. If music, movies arent strategic assets and are normal divisions they should sell them. Strong Yen would equal a huge warchest for Sony Electronics.

 

[joker454]

50GB vs 30GB was my main drive for HD-DVD to die.

Higher peak bitrate as well for bluray.

 

[NavNucST3]

Well, do keep in mind that 1080p is 6x the res of 720x480. Even if you're a bit generous with the updated compression scheme, there is still the much higher storage requirement for DTS MA to throw in there as well.

On DVD, the video portion took something just under 6GB per disc with the audio tracks (commentaries and movie audio) taking up the rest.

We are going to need to move these to a different thread... When I see your reply, I envision me talking to my developers.

me: "X is a problem"
them: "well, yeah we noticed that here is the reason why"
me: "...ok..."
me: "X is a problem"

 

[-tkf-]

1st quarter is in:

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/11q1_sony.pdf
http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/index.html

 

[NavNucST3]

1st quarter is in:

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/11q1_sony.pdf
http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/index.html

I wonder what they think of the 3DS price drop; if they believe Vita is a significantly different device.

A not insignificant drop in PS3 shipment which definitely lets us know there is a price cut incoming if they hope to outship last year. I still don't think $50 US is going to do it in the states I also don't believe price is an issue in Japan. But maybe between EU and US that would put them over last year. PS3 software numbers increased even with a decrease in software. I haven't looked at all the detail but I don't know if that is inclusive of the welcome back package or not and I'm not sure I really care how those items were moved. PS2 keeps trucking along...seriously trucking along. This might have been the first quarter that the 360 outshipped the PS2....that is a LONG life.

Since this is the bleeding money thread, yes, I still think they are bleeding money; guidance downgrade.

 

[patsu]

I wonder what they think of the 3DS price drop; if they believe Vita is a significantly different device.

Sony probably anticipated the price drop, perhaps not as early but it's not difficult to predict.

IMHO, as long as Vita differentiates itself convincingly from the iOS devices (especially iPad) to the consumers, the rest should fall in place. 3DS will need to do the same anyway. With this price drop, they set the lower bound for a mostly dedicated gaming device compared to other gadgets on the market. Would be interesting to see how 3DS affects DS sales also.

Vita should be able to do more.

EDIT: I am most curious about Sony's R&D spend in the latest quarter.

 

[NavNucST3]

Sony probably anticipated the price drop, perhaps not as early but it's not difficult to predict.

IMHO, as long as Vita differentiates itself convincingly from the iOS devices (especially iPad) to the consumers, the rest should fall in place. 3DS will need to do the same anyway. With this price drop, they set the lower bound for a mostly dedicated gaming device compared to other gadgets on the market. Would be interesting to see how 3DS affects DS sales also.

Vita should be able to do more.

Seriously...ok, I'll let you run with that. Let's just say I vehemently disagree. They can't predict their own numbers but they can predict Nintendo's price movements and then you throw the "perhaps not as early" to cover yourself...great.

EDIT: R&D is accounted for in the quarter in which it occurs one would hope that a product a mere few months from launch would not have a significant R&D hit some one quarter before.

 

[patsu]

Seriously...ok, I'll let you run with that. Let's just say I vehemently disagree. They can't predict their own numbers but they can predict Nintendo's price movements and then you throw the "perhaps not as early" to cover yourself...great.

Predicting price is different from predicting financial numbers.
Sony set the $250 price point for Vita from the very beginning without knowing their numbers today. When they look at 3DS, they'd have a sense what its sweet spot is compared to their audience. Forumites have been crying for a price drop (or rather angry at the launch price) for a while now.

Ninty's customers may be more used to DS-like pricing anyway.

EDIT: R&D is accounted for in the quarter in which it occurs one would hope that a product a mere few months from launch would not have a significant R&D hit some one quarter before.

I am not refering to R&D for Vita specifically. ^_^
Sony has a lot of products and services. Would be a good time to hunker down to develop for a better future now. There is little they can do for the domestic market and currency at this moment.

 

[Brad Grenz]

Anyone could see the 3DS was overpriced. Sony's in a far better position to know what it would cost to build and how much Room Nintendo had to change the price if needed. I'm sure when they announced the Vita at the same price as the 3DS was going for, they probably anticipated a price change in the 3DS's future.

Besides, it's not like the $250 price point is inherently problematic. The problem was that price was a terrible value for what you got in a 3DS. It's a damn good value for what you get in a Vita.

 

[NavNucST3]

Anyone could see the 3DS was overpriced. Sony's in a far better position to know what it would cost to build and how much Room Nintendo had to change the price if needed. I'm sure when they announced the Vita at the same price as the 3DS was going for, they probably anticipated a price change in the 3DS's future.

Besides, it's not like the $250 price point is inherently problematic. The problem was that price was a terrible value for what you got in a 3DS. It's a damn good value for what you get in a Vita.

Value arguments work when someone values the exact same thing as you. We see this in 360 vs PS3, console vs PC, "casual" vs "core", PC vs Mac. I look at the Vita and go "why do I want another device to carry besides my phone especially when its larger than my phone?" what is your value argument going to do for me? Whereas you look at it and go, "OMG, Uncharted in my pocket" neither position is irrelevant but your value argument is irrelevant for my wants and needs. Income elasticity is a real thing; maybe we are all in the same economic boat on this board where we all sit firmly in the top 10% of wage earners for our given countries but I'm not sure that is the case...

 

[patsu]

At the end of the day, Ninty did drop the price relatively quickly. So the "too expensive" observation may be correct.

If they had launched 3DS with more games and services, the situation may be different. Nintendo is quick to execute their moves, which is not a bad thing too.

 

[NavNucST3]

At the end of the day, Ninty did drop the price relatively quickly. So the "too expensive" observation may be correct.

I've already stipulated this, in multiple posts before the price drop occurred. It's the idea that the SNE fans don't seem to think the same is even remotely possible with the Vita.

 

[Rangers]

Bad to terrible results all around for the Japanese companies. Just a horror show for Nintendo, every area of hardware and software seeing 50% YoY declines.

I read on Neogaf that Sony has jumbled even more business units together in their reporting, and that now there's apparently just no way at all to suss out Game's profits, even less than before.

 

[NavNucST3]

Bad to terrible results all around for the Japanese companies. Just a horror show for Nintendo, every area of hardware and software seeing 50% YoY declines.

I read on Neogaf that Sony has jumbled even more business units together in their reporting, and that now there's apparently just no way at all to suss out Game's profits, even less than before.

Essentially there is only going to be Consumer and Professional. Nintendo with the massive forecast cut was eye-opening.

Slide 15 in the pdf shows the re-alignment

Sony TV forecasts...less than last year, really? 2010 ACT 22.4 they originally forecast 27M for FY2011 and have revised down to 22M.