Sony financing about 40 EDI (download) games

[Shifty Geezer]

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=69425

As the title says, Sony are supporting their Live Arcade version, seemingly officially named EDI (electronic distribution intiative - great name!), with funding for about 40 titles. Harrison says they're pushing for diversity, and devs should be willing to muck in with 3D where, he says, most download titles tend to be 2D.

Sony really are spending a shed-load on software at the moment. Given their past support, I hope to see some great variety in this collection.

 

[pipo]

Saw this too. It's a great trend in my opinion.

The number of full retail games I'm interested in isn't exactly growing the last couple of years.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The number of full retail games I'm interested in isn't exactly growing the last couple of years.

It also somewhat challenges Wii's idea of cheaper, simpler games for the masses. There were plenty of comments about how creating for PS3 (and XB360) costs a lot of money, but the EDI negates a lot of that. If a Wii game costs $2 million to make instead of $20 million and that's the reason for a dev targetting Wii, you could create that same $2 million game (ignoring the Wiimote of course!) for a download service. You can make games as large or small as you choose and set a suitable price I guess. Thus the market will be able to decide how much people want cheaper, simpler games versus expensive epics. In contrast to Live! Arcade, the lack of a size cap means anything's possible. It'll be interesting if MS change that about their system, or go with the clear differentiation between game types in download and disc forms.

 

[Bobbler]

Sony's first party is going to be huge after this generation with the way things are going. (they already are, but I think we'll see much growth)

 

[dlm]

It also somewhat challenges Wii's idea of cheaper, simpler games for the masses. There were plenty of comments about how creating for PS3 (and XB360) costs a lot of money, but the EDI negates a lot of that. If a Wii game costs $2 million to make instead of $20 million and that's the reason for a dev targetting Wii, you could create that same $2 million game (ignoring the Wiimote of course!) for a download service. You can make games as large or small as you choose and set a suitable price I guess. Thus the market will be able to decide how much people want cheaper, simpler games versus expensive epics. In contrast to Live! Arcade, the lack of a size cap means anything's possible. It'll be interesting if MS change that about their system, or go with the clear differentiation between game types in download and disc forms.

Rumor has it that MS will increase the max size of a Live Arcade game once the 256 MB mem card comes out.

That said, the concept of cheaper, simpler isn't really panning out for XBLA and it's probably not going to pan out much better for EDI. Yes, it's cheaper than a full retail game, but the minimum bar for a game that's likely to meet the bar for XBLA these days is $200,000. That's not exactly a trivial investment, and even with a 50 MB cap, that number is going up daily. And these are for games that on the whole are fairly short and simple.

Now imagine your average is 200 megs, or half a gig? What's the production cost going to hit? I wish it were the case, but it doesn't look like we're going to see the next Sonic or the next Mario 3 or the next Zelda or whatever on any of these download services.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Rumor has it that MS will increase the max size of a Live Arcade game once the 256 MB mem card comes out.

That said, the concept of cheaper, simpler isn't really panning out for XBLA and it's probably not going to pan out much better for EDI. Yes, it's cheaper than a full retail game, but the minimum bar for a game that's likely to meet the bar for XBLA these days is $200,000. That's not exactly a trivial investment, and even with a 50 MB cap, that number is going up daily. And these are for games that on the whole are fairly short and simple.

Now imagine your average is 200 megs, or half a gig? What's the production cost going to hit? I wish it were the case, but it doesn't look like we're going to see the next Sonic or the next Mario 3 or the next Zelda or whatever on any of these download services.

Quality game development is always going to have a cost, but for a real business and not just a couple of hacks in their bedroom, the level of investment these games need is way below 'full-on' games. In particular it's a place to try new ideas where if it fails, you only lose a few hundred thousand instead of a few million. And at least for the bedroom hacks there's the option of homebrew for both PS3 and XB360, so the really out-there ideas can have their day.

I think the backing these more open consoles are getting could actually pave the way for a renaissance in gaming, providing the full scope of opportunities to balance ideas with commercial viability.

 

[Platon]

It also somewhat challenges Wii's idea of cheaper, simpler games for the masses. There were plenty of comments about how creating for PS3 (and XB360) costs a lot of money, but the EDI negates a lot of that. If a Wii game costs $2 million to make instead of $20 million and that's the reason for a dev targetting Wii, you could create that same $2 million game (ignoring the Wiimote of course!) for a download service. You can make games as large or small as you choose and set a suitable price I guess. Thus the market will be able to decide how much people want cheaper, simpler games versus expensive epics. In contrast to Live! Arcade, the lack of a size cap means anything's possible. It'll be interesting if MS change that about their system, or go with the clear differentiation between game types in download and disc forms.

Although what you say is true, I still don't think we will se full sized DVD games (7Gigs) that cost almost $60 for download. Alhtough I don't like MS limit for XBLA games either i do think for various reasons that there should be a certain limit, albeit flexible, to both size and cost, and this whole thing should be about providing maybe not simpler but atleast cheaper games, that does not mean they are bad or anything.

Looking at the latest Roboblitz video, I am amazed that they can rival both in graphics and gameplay mechanics even "normal" games and I would even say it puts to shame many of them in both categories and all that in 50MB for $15...

 

[scooby_dooby]

Although what you say is true, I still don't think we will se full sized DVD games (7Gigs) that cost almost $60 for download. Alhtough I don't like MS limit for XBLA games either i do think for various reasons that there should be a certain limit, albeit flexible, to both size and cost, and this whole thing should be about providing maybe not simpler but atleast cheaper games, that does not mean they are bad or anything.

Looking at the latest Roboblitz video, I am amazed that they can rival both in graphics and gameplay mechanics even "normal" games and I would even say it puts to shame many of them in both categories and all that in 50MB for $15...

MS's self imposed 50mb limit has to be the single most stupid decision they've made. Talk about short sighted.

All so they could presumably save a couple dollars by going with a 64mb memory card rather than a 256mb card as the base, how pathetic is a 64mb memory card in the year 2005? Maybe 3 years ago that would've been reasonable, but you can pick up 2gb of flash memory now for <$70.

I don't buy the download time argument when you have 1.1GB demo's and no-one has a problem downloading those.

 

[cthellis42]

MS's self imposed 50mb limit has to be the single most stupid decision they've made. Talk about short sighted.

...and not the decision to exclude the HD to begin with which would have made that whole point moot? They'd still sell a whole bunch of overpriced memory cards regardless to people who want to take take their data with them, or share and transfer it at friends' houses, etc.

 

[Platon]

MS's self imposed 50mb limit has to be the single most stupid decision they've made. Talk about short sighted.

All so they could presumably save a couple dollars by going with a 64mb memory card rather than a 256mb card as the base, how pathetic is a 64mb memory card in the year 2005? Maybe 3 years ago that would've been reasonable, but you can pick up 2gb of flash memory now for <$70.

I don't buy the download time argument when you have 1.1GB demo's and no-one has a problem downloading those.

I agree, the 50MB limit is crap. But I do believe that XBLA games should be a bit more constrained when it comes to size rather than the demos. A demo you download and then you discard while games you might want to keep around so it would be annoying if after 10 games your HDD is full...

 

[scooby_dooby]

...and not the decision to exclude the HD to begin with which would have made that whole point moot? They'd still sell a whole bunch of overpriced memory cards regardless to people who want to take take their data with them, or share and transfer it at friends' houses, etc.

Mmm, I still think that was a smart move business wise, as it will have a big impact down the road in hitting $199 and $99 pricepoints before PS3 can get there.

That doesn't mean I like it a a consumer though

The MC thing is just plain stupid, short sighted, nickle and dime thinking.

 

[Sis]

MS's self imposed 50mb limit has to be the single most stupid decision they've made. Talk about short sighted.

I fail to see how a limit that can be adjusted at any time can be considered a mistake.

 

[scooby_dooby]

I agree, the 50MB limit is crap. But I do believe that XBLA games should be a bit more constrained when it comes to size rather than the demos. A demo you download and then you discard while games you might want to keep around so it would be annoying if after 10 games your HDD is full...

Ya 200-250mb I think would've been a much better limit, you're dealing with a system with 512mb of ram, limiting arcade games to 50mb is just a dumb move...

 

[one]

They already said they'd e-distribute PS2 games too. Unlike Xbox 1 games they continue to release PS2 format games for a while. If you are a PS3 owner and they try to sell a PS2 game on a DVD and EDI at the same time, it's likely the latter is cheaper.

Besides, there's always a prospect for episodic gaming and MMOG in the PS3 format.

 

[Platon]

Ya 200-250mb I think would've been a much better limit, you're dealing with a system with 512mb of ram, limiting arcade games to 50mb is just a dumb move...

Yeah, with that kind of limit, and using procedural techniques, looking at roboblitz that should give some incredible games...

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Ya 200-250mb I think would've been a much better limit, you're dealing with a system with 512mb of ram, limiting arcade games to 50mb is just a dumb move...

To be fair, that's a 50mb download limt. You can expand the game with all sorts of generated content to fill the machine's RAM. RoboBlitz's use of ProFX is a great example of saving download time by creating the content in game, and without the filesize limit perhaps no-one would have pushed for that. I think it's good to encourage small file sizes where possible and perhaps that's what MS were aiming for?

Although what you say is true, I still don't think we will se full sized DVD games (7Gigs) that cost almost $60 for download

Neither do I! I don't think that's the point. Games that size and price will come on disc. The benefit here is smaller, cheaper games not having the hassle of hard-copy distribution and opening up creative freedom. The nature of the download game means you need to focus more on gameplay than content. Geometry Wars is a great example where the content is negligable, but the gameplay is engrossing. This is the remit of Wii. Apart from the Wiimote (though there could be camera support for XB360, and that + motion for PS3) that's a lot of Wii's market-positioning covered I think.

"Hey developers! Come to Wii! It doesn't cost $20 million to make a game and we're attracting gamers who like simpler games, so be creative."
"Hey developers! Try our download service. It doesn't cost $20 million here either, and we're targetting gamers who like simpler games, so...be creative!"

When this was all just talk, I think there was a lot of doubt about Sony's online strategy, in all areas. The announcement of 40 download titles shows even without 3rd parties getting on board, it'll be a market with potential, and with that much support I'd be happy to look closer as a dev. The choice between cheap Wii and expensive PS3 doesn't count any more. In fact, where a Wii game with simpler assets wouldn't cut it as a PS3 game on BRD, it could maybe make the port to a download title!

 

[Platon]

They already said they'd e-distribute PS2 games too. Unlike Xbox 1 games they continue to release PS2 format games for a while. If you are a PS3 owner and they try to sell a PS2 game on a DVD and EDI at the same time, it's likely the latter is cheaper.

Besides, there's always a prospect for episodic gaming and MMOG in the PS3 format.

PS2 games aren't they closer to 4 gigs? Still I think that is quite huge, but if there is market why not. Why wouldn't there be any episodic content for the 360?...

 

[scooby_dooby]

To be fair, that's a 50mb download limt. You can expand the game with all sorts of generated content to fill the machine's RAM. RoboBlitz's use of ProFX is a great example of saving download time by creating the content in game, and without the filesize limit perhaps no-one would have pushed for that. I think it's good to enc

Wasn't RoboBlitz delayed because they had to sub contract to a company to use procedural techniques to cut down the file size? In this case the 50mb limit not only delayed a game, but most likely reduced the quality and/or size of the game as well.

50mb just seems way too small...

 

[mckmas8808]

I think the backing these more open consoles are getting could actually pave the way for a renaissance in gaming, providing the full scope of opportunities to balance ideas with commercial viability.

I love the way you think. Why people doubting this can happen is beyond me.

 

[Platon]

Wasn't RoboBlitz delayed because they had to sub contract to a company to use procedural techniques to cut down the file size? In this case the 50mb limit not only delayed a game, but most likely reduced the quality and/or size of the game as well.

50mb just seems way too small...

I know that Roboblitz has taken quite some time to be ready and that it is concidered delayed, but I don't think they had to contract that company in mid development. They must have realized even before start making the game, that if they are going for an UE3 powered engine, the only way that would be possible would be by using procedural techniques. I do not doubt though that making textures this way, since it is a new way of making them, might have led to longer times, but hopefully more and more will use them...