Sony delay PS3 until November

[scooby_dooby]

But what I'm saying is that that's not would would have taken place - rather, the system would either simply be dropped to $300, $400, etc... or use the smaller spread to help cover initial losses rather than add more in.

I just don't see what decisive advantage PS3 would gain from added RAM. Sure it would rule, right? But that's only to us because we're tech geeks.

QFT. Sony knows that a little extra ram, or slightly faster GPU, is not important in the long run(see PS1 or PS2).

imo, if they didn't include BR the PS3 would simply have been cheaper, it would not have gotten $100 worth of extra components. BR's only included as an investment for the future of their company, not in a desire to make the most powerful console(though that makes for great PR).

 

[Serenity Painted Death]

If BR wins the format war it will be a signifigant factor driving sales among HDTV owners who are also gamers.

I'm not convinced that it will have any real appeal to the non-HD casual gamer and that may be sony's mistake. DVD appealed to almost everyone, BR doesn't have that same appeal, and I doubt it ever will, HD is just too small of a step up from DVD.

??

The step from 420p DVD to actual HD is far larger than the step up from VHS to DVD...

The potential problem is that most people simply don't care enough to upgrade. That said, HDTV penetration is set to explode (already is, really) and all the sets sold now (and for a while actually) have the necessary inputs (HDMI at least, but I'd imagine 1080p is being ramped up too). Current penetration is, what? 12-15%? Doesn' t sound like much but that is millions upon millions of people... who are generally tech-oriented to begin with. No, it won't be as big as DVD, but it won't be insignificant. The future is all digital, but the setup just isn't there for widespread adoption and won't be for a bit, so the new formats defnitely have time to gain a foothold.

 

[Powderkeg]

Well, at least now they have the time to redesign the controllers....

Immersion last year sued Sony for infringing on its patents. Immersion claims that it owns the technology that powers the rumble in Sony's Dual Shock controllers. It also sued Microsoft for its rumble features in the Xbox, but the boys from Redmond settled out of court.

Sony fought on, and lost a case last year. However, it's been allowed to continue selling the PS2 pending appeal. If the latest reports are verified, it's lost that appeal today.

This means that Sony not only has to pony up and awful lot of cash to Immersion Technologies, but it has to stop infringing on the patent - that means stop selling kit which includes Dual Shock technology, and that means pulling the PS2 off the shelf.

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2006/03/13/sony_dual_shock_patent/

 

[scooby_dooby]

??
The step from 420p DVD to actual HD is far larger than the step up from VHS to DVD...

To the eyes? Or when you add it up on a calculator?

Also, DVD was a big step up in many different and more important ways, no more rewinding was huuuge. form factor another big one, and durability, these are the things that really appeal to the mainstream IMO, not crisper image quality. I see HDTV owners/gamers being really hyped about a free HD player w/ PS3, but it won't be a driving factor for everyone else.

With that said, I don't think Sony needs any extra incentive to buy, they just need to get that bad boy out on shelves so devs can start making games and they'll do just fine. I don't know if BR will end up helping them gain more marketshare, I think these delays and the higher price might cause them to lose some, but it will probably succeed in winning the format war for Sony, which might be more important.

 

[wco81]

You know a lot of this hand-wringing about the PS3 being late is because it may be out a year later than the X360.

But Microsoft cut short the life of the Xbox because they were losing money on that deal. So you could argue that coming out in the fall/winter of 2006 is not late.

Of course, Sony did say Spring 2006 so now if they miss by 6 months (or even more) it's going to be spun as a dire scenario by a lot of the media.

 

[randycat99]

On the notion of how many people will notice "by eye", I submit how many people still use 640x480 has the resolution setting on their computer monitor? Clearly, people can see the difference at that point, will demand more resolution, and will pay for hardware to give higher video performance.

 

[Rockster]

Read a post early on in the thread about having 50 games at launch. Is that even fiscally responsible for a publisher to lose a title in the launch shuffle's minimal install base? I thought they intentionally staggered releases to get maximum exposure, for example Battlefield 2 on the 360 is done but pushed back to make way for GRAW. Obviously we don't know how many consoles they will have available for launch, but considering the probable cost of the machine itself, next-gen games being slightly more expensive and even more likely if using Bluray media, the fact they will be vying for the same dollars from the HD movie buyers, it doesn't make any business sense to me to have that many titles at launch. About 20 or so, with a couple platform defining blockbusters, seems appropriate. They're not going to need them early on to drive hardware sales, as they will sell out regardless.

 

[one]

FWIW, apparently Nikkei (Nihon Keizai Shimbun) says November worldwide launch is likely.

 

[Megadrive1988]

I'm one who thinks a 256-bit bus is worth it, and the minimum PS3 should have. 256-bit bus has been around on mainstream PC cards since 2002. I don't really care if it cannot shrink with the die, Sony can swallow the cost to make PS3 that much better. Xbox 360 can get away with a 128-bit bus because it's got the daughter die with EDRAM and 32GB/sec externally and 256 GB/sec internally. PS3 has no such equivalent, baring a radical change in spec, which I do not expect. I think a 128-bit bus in PS3 without EDRAM to take the strain off is a crippling flaw, but a calculated one. it's all about comprimise and cost, so I do understand. I just don't have to like it


anway, news should be hitting the internet in a few hours, lets listen to what Sony has to say.

 

[rabidrabbit]

The thing you forget is that 'hype' is not nearly as important as game library, and the longer PS3 waits to launch the larger the 360 install base becomes more developers will bring their games cross-platform or simply choose to target 360 as the main platform.

In the end, when hype dies away it's all about the games, so I don't think it would be a good strategy to delay the launch in an effort to build hype, when you're losing marketshare everyday, which leads to less developer support & less games.

People don't buy the whole game library with the console, they buy selected titles and the promise of familiar titles they know will be released at a later date.

Would PS3 release October in NA, with various multiplatform titles aleready out on xbox360 (Fight Night, Madden, MoH, CoD, Rainbow Six:Vegas, FIFA....) and some exclusives like Heavenly Sword, a Tekken game, Warhawk, Ridge Racer, Unreal Tournament 2007, I-8, Untold Legends, Motor Storm, F1 game etc.
how do you think it compares with the xbox360 current lineup and the announced games for this year?

The list of games that truly sell the system, I think they will be pretty equal on both consoles, with the xbox360 of course having the bigger chance of having a slight advantage because of being longer in the market.
But that might also be it's disadvantage, as people will think it's older thechnology than PS3, even though if the specs really are comparable.
And we shouldn't count out what system people will think gives them most "bang for the buck". If there's only a $100-150 price difference for xbox360's advantage, will it be enough.

 

[rabidrabbit]

Good point. Sony will be fighting on multiple fronts this Christmas:
PS3 vs. cheaper xbox 360 and new 360 games, Revolution, Vista and HD-DVD players. I know which side I wouldn't want to be on.

No, it's
PS3 vs. xbox360
xbox360 vs. PS3
PS3 vs. Revolution
Revolution vs. xbox360
xbox360 vs. Revolution.
Ps3 vs. Vista
Vista vs. PS3
Vista vs. xbox360
xbox360 vs. Vista and Revolution
Vista vs. Revolution
HD-DVD players vs. xbox360
etc......................................................

It's NOT PS3 vs. everybody. That's funboi thinking

 

[PARANOiA]

I'm actually quite interested in the impact this will have on the next-next gen (Xbox-3). If the Xbox has a 4 year cycle, really, they'll launch a new machine less than three years after the PS3's launch. That will have a pretty significant impact on the industry.

 

[Megadrive1988]

can't wait

 

[SugarCoat]

??

The step from 420p DVD to actual HD is far larger than the step up from VHS to DVD...

The potential problem is that most people simply don't care enough to upgrade. That said, HDTV penetration is set to explode (already is, really) and all the sets sold now (and for a while actually) have the necessary inputs (HDMI at least, but I'd imagine 1080p is being ramped up too). Current penetration is, what? 12-15%? Doesn' t sound like much but that is millions upon millions of people... who are generally tech-oriented to begin with. No, it won't be as big as DVD, but it won't be insignificant. The future is all digital, but the setup just isn't there for widespread adoption and won't be for a bit, so the new formats defnitely have time to gain a foothold.

Care enough to upgrade or is it a joke what they expect us to upgrade? You show me all those average families all psyched about upgrading their TV set and media players and well as re-revising their media library, heck ya gotta get HDTV cable too or you'll be putting the set to waste, anyway, show me all those willing average families and i'll give you a gold star. In my opinion thats asking way too much if you expect wide spread acceptance to flourish like a brush fire. This is how companies like sony treat it. Infact i know its too much. TV's last 10-15 years in most households, some longer. DVD has only fully taken over VHS in the last 6-7 years or so. Absolutly nobody, certainly not the majority, are all hyped up for further transistion.

People who were early adapters of HDTV ready TV's are going to get a slap in the face over the next 3-5 years as well since HDMI connectors will be receiving one more revision to fully support all levels of HD (missing pins for color depth or something, would have to look it up). It is not a good time to purchase an HDTV. And 1080P is being ramped up, if you have a budget of around 8-10grand.

I already made the argument, and i stick with it, Blu-ray was a totally unnecessary venture, they absolutly should of released compatable addin drives when they were ready. Now a game console is waiting on a peice of hardware that will have no effect on the vast majority that purchase it. I'm absolutly sure i wont be touching HDTV for the next 2-3 years while others pay down some of the R&D cost so the prices become acceptable and bugs get worked out and maybe we'll see a laser DLP crush plasma and LCD and tube by then too. Smart business move in the end on Sony's part? I think not. People argue otherwise that its about getting a standard accepted, but once again, that is something a $100 addon drive could of accomplished with ease. Whos going to complain if they left an empty drive bay with a simple plastic cover or made the basic DVD drive removable, i think thats a great idea and it would of got the PS3 out that much earlier and cheaper.

 

[rabidrabbit]

Another factor to be taken into consideration whether the PS3 as a Blu-ray player will be adopted among the HT enthusiast community is - is it good enough Blu-ray player?
If the image quality is on par with the entry level standalone Blu-ray players, it will have a chance.
But if the image quality is lacking, I think many will choose a better quality player, considfering those who really care about HD will already likely invested more than average on their setup.
PS2 DVD IQ was decent. Not great, but it didn't have any glaring visual flaws, like color banding, excessive noise, blurry picture. The PS2 DVD image was sharp enough, the colour was accurate enough... there was the "chroma bug" that still bugs many pricier players today, and it wasn't capable of "blacker than black", but the faults in PS2 DVD image weren't that big, the no.1. minus was in ergonomics.
To me, the Blu-ray in PS3 is a very interesting extra, it will be my first chance to sample HD movies, and for that reason it is a fairly big selling point to me.
It is likely though that I'll buy a standalone dedicated Br player a year or two after PS3, unless the PS3 is proven to be a very good quality in BR.

 

[Phil]

Where's BenSkywalker when you need him? :smile:

This news just gave a lot of substance to his thread posted just a few days ago.

A worldwide launch to me sounds better the longer I look at it. As speculated, I think chances are quite likely that PS3's (or various parts of it) are already in full production and are waiting to see the completion of said crucial parts that are responsible for the delay. If they can pull it off, we'll see an unprecedented amount of PS3 units ready by November - a number that could satisfy a large part of the demand that will meet the PS3 launch. I don't see them delaying Japan simply because I could imagine this would anger a lot of their loyal supporters. If anything, I could see them having enough to launch at least in the US and Japan if the above holds true (that they are already in full production of the finalized parts).

I don't see 60nm being an option just yet. If PS3 is in full production already, expect them to in production to specs they set is stone already - which is most probably 90nm, a known and safer process. 60nm will come soon enough, to ensure they can bring down the price. Perhaps, if 60nm is that close to being a viable process for PS3, this could make it possible for Sony to take a higher risk on PS3's launch selling price. At the moment, I'm going to predict that Sony will not price the PS3 higher than $349 (this depends on MS of course, but I would think by then Xbox360 will be either enjoying a lower price in its premium form or close to).

 

[Sean*O]

Sony may have just given their bread and butter a serious identity crisis. Do all of the gamers in the World really want to hear that the PS3, which is supposed to be a gaming system, has been postponed only because it's HD movie playback capability is not ready yet?

There has to be something bigger going on if that announcement was Sony's best option, because I think it could potentially do a lot of damage to the Playstation brand. Basically, Sony has told the World that the PS3 is more important to them as a HD movie player than it is as a gaming platform.

 

[pipo]

There has to be something bigger going on if that announcement was Sony's best option...

Angry publishers. You can't keep 'm in the dark forever you know.

 

[trinibwoy]

Sony may have just given their bread and butter a serious identity crisis. Do all of the gamers in the World really want to hear that the PS3, which is supposed to be a gaming system, has been postponed only because it's HD movie playback capability is not ready yet?

What would you do if you were Sony and planned to have this thing out there for the next 5 years?

 

[liolio]

People don't buy the whole game library with the console, they buy selected titles and the promise of familiar titles they know will be released at a later date.

Would PS3 release October in NA, with various multiplatform titles aleready out on xbox360 (Fight Night, Madden, MoH, CoD, Rainbow Six:Vegas, FIFA....) and some exclusives like Heavenly Sword, a Tekken game, Warhawk, Ridge Racer, Unreal Tournament 2007, I-8, Untold Legends, Motor Storm, F1 game etc.
how do you think it compares with the xbox360 current lineup and the announced games for this year?

The list of games that truly sell the system, I think they will be pretty equal on both consoles, with the xbox360 of course having the bigger chance of having a slight advantage because of being longer in the market.
But that might also be it's disadvantage, as people will think it's older thechnology than PS3, even though if the specs really are comparable.
And we shouldn't count out what system people will think gives them most "bang for the buck". If there's only a $100-150 price difference for xbox360's advantage, will it be enough.

I don't agree, early adopters will buy no matter what.
In the long run, yes siftware become more and more important.
100/150 $ is a lot for child and family, slightly less for young adult gamers.
Anyway, i think average gamers will catch with the next gen wagon, 1 year at least after the ps3 launch (whatever the system chosen xbox/ps3).

I agree on the BR and HD appeal.
Hd can be great on both system for those who want play throught on Pc monitor.
After thaht i know none of my friend (even with fucking good job) thinking in buying a hdtv.
Come on there is two formats (720p/1080p), here in French numeric start so image quality is improved nicely( on sdtv), most of my rich friends think in buying the biggest TV they can .
More the market is not ready, for tv channel, none or very few, have started switching to better resolution video cam.
Look dvd recorder for TV is just starting to attract mass market, and it's a hell of improvement upon vhs recorder.

I think the MS and Sony choice for hdtv is anticipated.

I think Bill Gates is almost right when he said that hd-dvd or Br are not the future.
I'm in France my internet connexion is+20mb, i can look tv thought my internet connexion (adsl) on my tv or directly on my computer. I haven't see a year without a bandwith jump.
I don't know if forHD format, the physic support will be as important as it was in the past.