So which is more future proof?

[Atsim]

Wow...I can see where this thread is going....wait...its already there.

*is ashamed that he posted in this thread

But, I guess I already jumped that line, I must say that your opinion on thing people will never use is an opinion, also...if you can't see it..then i'll clue you in...Sony is trying to make this as "computer-like" as possible. 6 USB Ports? I can foresee two being used for maybe a keyboard and mouse, the others....well, just like on a PC, everyone has like 2 or 3 USB ports that they never touch.

I'm not sure what you're getting at, I think it's a valid point. Three USB ports would be more than enough, why six? What six things are people going to plug in that have to all be in at the same time? Sure it's not that much of an expense, but it's kind of needless.

And all those card readers... aren't there cables that plug the cards into a USB slot anyway? I mean ease of use, ok. I don't have any memory cards, and I understand that other people do, but why not just cut costs, supply a hard drive, and just give us three or four USB ports? Wouldn't that work just as well?

And the HDMI thing. Ok, down the line HDTVs will become less expensive and some people will have two HDTVs. I'm pretty sure the PS3 won't be able to power a video game split onto two HDTVs, right? I don't know about the requirements of displaying a high-def movie, so that's up in the air, but assuming that the PS3 can't quite run a high-def movie on to two HDTVs at an acceptable level, why bother putting two ports?

Unless maybe the PS3 could upscale old PS1 and PS2 games to high def and then split it into two screens... would that work?

Still, I don't see what the use of two HDMI ports would be... maybe I'm missing something?

I mean I'm all for future proofing or whatever, but wouldn't it be better if they spent more money on the power of the console and less on features that won't really be used?

 

[Bjorn]

And the HDMI thing. Ok, down the line HDTVs will become less expensive and some people will have two HDTVs. I'm pretty sure the PS3 won't be able to power a video game split onto two HDTVs, right?

Why not ? They just lower the res a little bit. Though i doubt that dual screen gaming is going to be that common. But for those people like me that has a TV and a projector, well, two HDMI outputs is a must have.

I don't know about the requirements of displaying a high-def movie, so that's up in the air, but assuming that the PS3 can't quite run a high-def movie on to two HDTVs at an acceptable level, why bother putting two ports?

I think i read somewhere that it takes around 70% of the power of one SPE to decode a HDTV movie. And the CELL processor has 7 of them, + that the main core probably can decode one also. What that turns out to be if the work was done simultaneosly is another thing but i've seen the nr 12 on some sites. So the answer is rather probably, yes, it can decode two or more high def movies at the same time.

 

[Guden Oden]

Three USB ports would be more than enough, why six? What six things are people going to plug in that have to all be in at the same time?

This thread is rapidly degenerating into f-boy-bickering territory/"my daddy is stronger than your daddy" debating (as I suspected it would), and without adding more fuel to the fire, imagine this:

You and friend are playing on an x360. Suddenly one of your controllers goes low on battery. No problem, you just stick in the USB cable and start to charge it. So then the other controller also goes low on battery. What to do?

Pull out the webcam? The game's using it. Pull out the wifi? Well, the game's using that TOO! No more charge slots! So you pause the game and go out and buy some AA batteries instead. Gametime lost, around half an hour.

PS3, you'll never run out of slots. Eyetoy, mouse, keyboard attached, still three more ports to go for corded controllers if needed.

And all those card readers... aren't there cables that plug the cards into a USB slot anyway?

If it isn't included as standard there likely won't be any software support for it in the console's firmware. It's not as if you can just plug in a card reader in a USB slot and have it automagically working you know... Maybe we're spoiled on today's PCs, because windows has had a native driver for USB storage ever since winME. But these things most likely wouldn't work on an x360. I sort of wonder if it'd even understand a hub, as I don't think MS want people to plug in all sorts of stuff into their console and the related problems that might be caused by all the countless hubs that are on the market, some bus powered and some not, some slightly out of spec, some defective etc... By not including a hub driver, they limit people to use just the three built-in ports and don't have to deal with all the grief and support phonecalls that dumb lusers will generate by plugging in various stuff to their console.

but assuming that the PS3 can't quite run a high-def movie on to two HDTVs at an acceptable level, why bother putting two ports?

That's quite an assumption... And an incorrect one as well.

Still, I don't see what the use of two HDMI ports would be... maybe I'm missing something?

Multiplayer coop games for example.

I mean I'm all for future proofing or whatever, but wouldn't it be better if they spent more money on the power of the console and less on features that won't really be used?

You know, you don't sound like someone who's all for future proofing at all. You sound more like one of those people who desperately try to find flaws with the competition...

I intend to get both consoles when they're eventually released, and I'm not going to worry over wether one or two HDMI ports are really needed, or wether it's excessive with six USB ports etc. I'm going to be DELIGHTED that the console HAS these features. Hell, why shouldn't I be? How can gaming progress if we don't add more functionality?

 

[nutball]

If you want future-proof gaming, you should choose a platform that you can upgrade piece-meal as and when when new tech comes to the market.

A PC, for example...

/gets coat and runs away...

 

[mckmas8808]

I would like to second Guden Oden whole last post. I totally agree 100% with everything that he stated.

 

[Titanio]

They come in the box, unlike your dual monitor support, which is incomplete until you buy extra cables.

I meant box as in the physical X360 unit itself.

As for video cables, I doubt PS3 will come with anything much less than X360. The point is, you can get two HDMI/DVI cables and plug them straight into the back of your PS3. To do the same on X360, if it's possible at all, would require at least another piece of hardware, an adaptor of some sort.

Longer, perhaps. More expensive? I'm willing to bet you could get the wifi adapter, any extra cables you might need, a rechargable battery for your controller, and the recharging wire for less than the PS3 hard drive.

You conveniently left out, for example, a next-gen disc drive A Next-gen disc drive alone could be > than a cost of a HDD, I think.

Both consoles can connect to any type of game controller (Gamepad, wheel, joystick, etc...)

As far as gamepads etc. are concerned, this is true, although some might argue, for example, the superiority (in terms of response time) of Bluetooth over other wireless technologies (I haven't a clue myself, but Sony claimed this is why they went with Bluetooth, and I see very little reason why they would go with Bluetooth unless they thought it brought some gain). Peripherals are only one part of this argument, and actually isn't the argument itself. We're talking about the unit itself.

 

[jvd]

You and friend are playing on an x360. Suddenly one of your controllers goes low on battery. No problem, you just stick in the USB cable and start to charge it. So then the other controller also goes low on battery. What to do?

put in double a batterys have space charging bats ?

anyway your right. I think 5 would have been a good amount . 1 for wifi , 4 for controller plugs

However u have 6 usb slots on the ps3. Yet u can use 7 controllers . What happens if all 7 controllers need to be recharge ?

If it isn't included as standard there likely won't be any software support for it in the console's firmware

console has a hardrive. So you can update the firmware .


Secondly every camera has a usb attachment . Thus u can pull a psp and send files to your xbox hardrive that way

I sort of wonder if it'd even understand a hub

dunno , but i believe usb can daisy chain alot of devices right ? So why can't they come out with a camera that has a usb male / female slot . That way u can plug in the charget cord through your camera ?

That's quite an assumption... And an incorrect one as well.

I doubt it could from a bluray drive and since it doesn't come with a hardrive standard there is nothing big enough to stream multiply hd movies from .

Multiplayer coop games for example.

perhaps . You will take an image quality hit though and u will need 2 tvs with hdmi inputs . You will also most likely have to take a screen size hit . I don't see many people using two 60inch hd-tvs sets next to each other . It isn't practical for normal use and many wont invest in that for just a ps3 .

So you'd most likely need two smaller tvs that can be easily / semi easily moved from one place to another .

But i think an over whelming majority of people will end up playing co-op over wifi / net / lan ) that way you don't have to move tvs u can just go to another tv in the house .

Nice little benfit . But really a niche market and i don't really see it as future proofing .

I intend to get both consoles when they're eventually released, and I'm not going to worry over wether one or two HDMI ports are really needed, or wether it's excessive with six USB ports etc. I'm going to be DELIGHTED that the console HAS these features. Hell, why shouldn't I be? How can gaming progress if we don't add more functionality?

More doesn't equal futureproofing and more doesn't allways equal better . Putting 50 buttons on a controller is more buttons. Doesn't make it a better controller .

Filling up a console with things not needed is just as bad as not putting in enough. Look at the ps2 . IN its life time its gotten rid of ports that were not used by people and the hardrive port .

I fear this will happen with the ps3 .


However neither xbox 360 nor ps3 will be future proof . They will just be the best they can possibly be for the imidate future and based on those trends .

 

[Titanio]

put in double a batterys have space charging bats ?

anyway your right. I think 5 would have been a good amount . 1 for wifi , 4 for controller plugs

However u have 6 usb slots on the ps3. Yet u can use 7 controllers . What happens if all 7 controllers need to be recharge ?

The likelihood of 7 controllers simultaneously going dead is a lot less than having 1 or 2

console has a hardrive. So you can update the firmware .

Small point, but I think I heard somewhere that the firmware and the dashboard aren't being kept on the HDD? You'd just need to flash it of course to update.

 

[jvd]

The likelihood of 7 controllers simultaneously going dead is a lot less than having 1 or 2

Must less unlikely than the controllers going dead , you not having double a batterys or controllers not in use ?

I dunno.

I think both are trying to find a negative to make one system look better and that is why i brought it up . Its very obvious that both fall short when you factor in thier own capabilitys .

The ps3 looks great with 6 next to xboxs 3 . However when you factory in that the ps3 has 7 controllers and also web cams , keyboards , mice and other things also you find out that it still has the limitations even if at first glance it seems to have more .

To be honest both companys are going to need to put out a hub . I can easily see people filling up 3 / 6 quickly on both systems but for my controllers I'm going to most likely buy that ring stand they have for the charger packs . You can put 4 in at a time and it plugs in via usb and ac power plug . I will also buy extra batteries because lets face it . I've had times where we played mario kart for hours on end (we played once for 10 hours ) and i'm going to want to make sure i'm never in a situation where i'm out of double a's or packs .

my sister will most likely do the same with her ps3 . As it stands we have 4 wave birds and we have 16 double a batterys in 15 min chargers so there is never any stops in the action .

Small point, but I think I heard somewhere that the firmware and the dashboard aren't being kept on the HDD? You'd just need to flash it of course to update.

I don't know how they are doing it . But i'm sure there will be a way . I'm also sure they wouldn't miss a chance to sell us a hub. So i bet they already have a model ready to go . I would think a 4 plug hub would be good. Factor out the third plug on the system for wifi . You now have 6 plugs . figure 2 for video cameras (don't see why u need more than 1 let alone 2 but anyway ) and 2 for controllers that died and your set . OR you can hook up 2 and get 8 slots free .

I'm sure both sony and ms will have these from day one if not shortly after launch

 

[Bjorn]

I doubt it could from a bluray drive and since it doesn't come with a hardrive standard there is nothing big enough to stream multiply hd movies from .

One over the Gb Ethernet, the other from the BR drive.

 

[jvd]

One over the Gb Ethernet, the other from the BR drive.

Perhaps . Of course that is still less than 3 . Which is what i count for the x360 . Dvd drive , hardrive , lan . Actually with the hardrive built in you can play as many movies as you want till the cpus can decode fast enough .

 

[Guden Oden]

have space charging bats ?

I hate fiddling with rechargeables. The only ones I got is ONE set for my bike's lights because you get a stiff fine if you ride outside when it's dark and the cops catch you. And I hate buying alkaline batts even more, so don't ask me about that.

However u have 6 usb slots on the ps3. Yet u can use 7 controllers . What happens if all 7 controllers need to be recharge ?

Well then you're fukt. The reason for the 7 controllers is that the bluetooth protocol allows 7 devices per transciever device.

console has a hardrive. So you can update the firmware .

Doubtful that MS would add additional USB peripheral support in future firmwares. Like I said, it would just mean more headache for them because they'd have to support the feature afterwards. And I seriously doubt anyone's going to hack such functionality in either, I expect MS to beef up firmware security significantly this time so I don't expect people to be able to flash their own hacked firmwares (easily), and even if there's support in the firmware you'd need support in both the dashboard AND application software as well for something like a flashcard reader to be useful. That's pretty much impossible to add on your own.

dunno , but i believe usb can daisy chain alot of devices right ?

USB can't daisychain anything. It's a master/slave device configuration with the (root) hub being master and the peripheral device being the slave. If you want daisychaining you'd have to include a hub inside the device (like the original xbox controller for example for its expansion slots).

So why can't they come out with a camera that has a usb male / female slot . That way u can plug in the charget cord through your camera ?

Possibly, though doubtful... It'd mean two cables hanging off the camera, meaning it might be hard to make it stay in place. It'd also look cluttered. That said however, the newest pic I saw of the x360 camera did look rather splendid...

since it doesn't come with a hardrive standard there is nothing big enough to stream multiply hd movies from .

A: we don't know for sure it won't come with a harddrive, and
B: you have (gigabit!) network ports on the back... You think they're there just for show?

You will take an image quality hit though and u will need 2 tvs with hdmi inputs . You will also most likely have to take a screen size hit . I don't see many people using two 60inch hd-tvs sets next to each other .

Oh boo hoo, cry me a river J. As if you wouldn't take an image quality/screen size hit from splitscreen? At least with two separate TVs you can't (easily) see what your opponent is doing if it's a player versus player game. And btw, HDMI is regular DVI with another plug, and quite a few widescreen TVs have either DVI or HDMI inputs already. I see DVI/HDMI extension cords sold in all kinds of computer and hifi/home entertainment stores. It's not as if it's uncommon, that's for sure...

It isn't practical for normal use and many wont invest in that for just a ps3 .

Could you possibly find something else to gripe about too? Man, you sound like you're having your period for chrissakes. Do you HAVE to find negatives about everything? Listening to you, you make it sound as if it would be better with just one video out... JESUS.

So you'd most likely need two smaller tvs that can be easily / semi easily moved from one place to another .

I just LUVE mine...

But really a niche market and i don't really see it as future proofing .

This "future proof" stuff is just bunk, but if my choice was HDMI or no HDMI, I know which one I'd pick. And if I could have two instead of just one, well hell, why not? With you though it's just poo-poo this, poo-poo that. I know you're an xbox fan, but COME ON!

Putting 50 buttons on a controller is more buttons. Doesn't make it a better controller .

Sheesh, you know, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Your constant bitching and whining about every feature sony added that MS did not, it's depressing to listen to. What about the PS3 is like putting 50 buttons on a controller, huh?

However neither xbox 360 nor ps3 will be future proof .

You know... I never said they would.

All I'm saying is having smart and useful features like HDMI etc sure beats NOT having them, particulary as they're going to see even more use in the future.

 

[Guden Oden]

Perhaps . Of course that is still less than 3 . Which is what i count for the x360 . Dvd drive , hardrive , lan . Actually with the hardrive built in you can play as many movies as you want till the cpus can decode fast enough .

What makes you think you can only do one stream from each source on PS3?

Gigabit ethernet is (much) faster than the built-in HDD in x360. In fact, NO single harddrive on the market can saturate gigabit ethernet. Not sure what the bitrate for HD video is, but 1x blueray is 36mbit/sec I think. That's easily over 20 simultaneous video streams assuming they all use full BR bitrate (very doubtful). So it could well be 60-80 streams in reality, not that it matters, because neither PS3 nor x360 are capable of decoding anywhere near that many.

Still, you like your little pissing matches, so I decided to step up to the plate...

 

[Bjorn]

Perhaps . Of course that is still less than 3 . Which is what i count for the x360 . Dvd drive , hardrive , lan . Actually with the hardrive built in you can play as many movies as you want till the cpus can decode fast enough .

Considering that the PS3 has Gb Ethernet compared to 100 MB for the x360, i guess you could argue that it counts as 10X the amount of movies over the LAN compared to the x360. And streaming multiple movies form the harddrive isn't going to be a nice experience since the harddrive would have to do a lot of seeking between the movies = lot's of noice. And the HD is the absolute loudest thing in my HTPC. All this if of course a rather moot point since i don't really see the need for watching multiple movies in the same room.

 

[jvd]

hate fiddling with rechargeables. The only ones I got is ONE set for my bike's lights because you get a stiff fine if you ride outside when it's dark and the cops catch you. And I hate buying alkaline batts even more, so don't ask me about that.

the point isn't if u like it . Its if its there.

From what i can tell ms put in 3 ways to power the controllers. Battery pack , double a batterys and usb port. Thus you have 2 other ways if one of the ways isn't avalible . To me that is futureproofing .

Well then you're fukt. The reason for the 7 controllers is that the bluetooth protocol allows 7 devices per transciever device.

I'm just pointing it out my friend .

Anyway . how about 4 controlers , 4 web cams and 4 head head sets ? Last I saw the ps3 has no built in head set jacks on the controllers . They need to be plug in some where most likely the usb ports or wifi . Though there are only 7 wifi spots thus one shy .... hmmm

Find more things laacking the more we look at the ps3 don't we .

Doubtful that MS would add additional USB peripheral support in future firmwares. Like I said, it would just mean more headache for them because they'd have to support the feature afterwards. And I seriously doubt anyone's going to hack such functionality in either, I expect MS to beef up firmware security significantly this time so I don't expect people to be able to flash their own hacked firmwares (easily), and even if there's support in the firmware you'd need support in both the dashboard AND application software as well for something like a flashcard reader to be useful. That's pretty much impossible to add on your own.

would it take a firmware update or simply a driver for the os ? we have a usb hub downstairs on our tv pc and we just needed a driver .

Anyway i'm going to asume as i said in the other post that ms wouldn't pass up the chance to sell us a hub . So i would expect they would have a first party hub u can buy .

USB can't daisychain anything. It's a master/slave device configuration with the (root) hub being master and the peripheral device being the slave. If you want daisychaining you'd have to include a hub inside the device (like the original xbox controller for example for its expansion slots).

so u can do what i'm thinking would just be more expensive

Possibly, though doubtful... It'd mean two cables hanging off the camera, meaning it might be hard to make it stay in place. It'd also look cluttered. That said however, the newest pic I saw of the x360 camera did look rather splendid...

true . Of course cluttering depends on what u hook to it . U can simply use it took hook up more cameras

A: we don't know for sure it won't come with a harddrive, and
B: you have (gigabit!) network ports on the back... You think they're there just for show?

so your going to be required to have an outside device capable of sending this date over the lan to the ps3 .

hmmm . Anyway if we want to get into future proofing using the xbox 360 u can display as many videos as the hardware can possibly decode as they are all on the hardrive .

as for point a , i will consider it not included untill they announce that it is . Its lack of inclusion in the specs and info given at e3 indicates to me that it is not included or they would have said so to trump ms

Oh boo hoo, cry me a river J. As if you wouldn't take an image quality/screen size hit from splitscreen? At least with two separate TVs you can't (easily) see what your opponent is doing if it's a player versus player game. And btw, HDMI is regular DVI with another plug, and quite a few widescreen TVs have either DVI or HDMI inputs already. I see DVI/HDMI extension cords sold in all kinds of computer and hifi/home entertainment stores. It's not as if it's uncommon, that's for sure...

hey we are talking about this stuff and i'm just bringing up the negatives since u are here to play up the pros .

Anyway as i've said lan / wifi / net will be more popular . You can set up another ps3 anywhere else in your house and get the full graphical quality and not have to worry about anyone seeing what the other is doing as they are in other rooms and the likely hood of having 2 hdtvs in a house is much greater than 2 in the same room .

Could you possibly find something else to gripe about too? Man, you sound like you're having your period for chrissakes. Do you HAVE to find negatives about everything? Listening to you, you make it sound as if it would be better with just one video out... JESUS.

actually i believe it would be. This is a feature that i personaly don't see any use from . It will be limited in support and will be expensive to support .

I just LUVE mine...

right 15 inch screen. Once again as i said above your sacrificing image quality for 2 screens . Not only that but if your using 2 screens with vastly diffrent sizes one player will be at a disadvantage . Not to mention it would be cheaper to buy a second ps3 and hook it up to an existing tv which is most likely hood will be bigger and play through wifi .

This "future proof" stuff is just bunk, but if my choice was HDMI or no HDMI, I know which one I'd pick. And if I could have two instead of just one, well hell, why not? With you though it's just poo-poo this, poo-poo that. I know you're an xbox fan, but COME ON!

I'm all for hdmi . I just see no need for 2 . I think its a niche bs thing sony is pushing just for the sake of saying hey look we have 2 screens .

I don't see it as practical and i've explained myself . As for being an xbox fan your fine to think that but its hard to be a fan of something you don't own .

Sheesh, you know, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Your constant bitching and whining about every feature sony added that MS did not, it's depressing to listen to. What about the PS3 is like putting 50 buttons on a controller, huh?

medi card plug ins (sd , memory stick and others ) when a cheap 3$ cable could do the same . 7 controler wifi function which will never be used , 2 hdmi ports that will enver be used

All I'm saying is having smart and useful features like HDMI etc sure beats NOT having them, particulary as they're going to see even more use in the future.

Yet you've only named one smart thing that sony has that ms hasn't . Hdmi . Having 2 hdmi's is not better than 1 and it just adds cost ot the system .

One you didn't mention is wifi which sony has built in , which is nice , but isn't very important to me and i sony's console is more expensive will be factored out .


As i've said look at the ps2. It had many ports that were slowly phased out during its life time . Why would i think any of these pet features wont be as the ps3 life goes on

 

[jvd]

What makes you think you can only do one stream from each source on PS3?

Gigabit ethernet is (much) faster than the built-in HDD in x360. In fact, NO single harddrive on the market can saturate gigabit ethernet. Not sure what the bitrate for HD video is, but 1x blueray is 36mbit/sec I think. That's easily over 20 simultaneous video streams assuming they all use full BR bitrate (very doubtful). So it could well be 60-80 streams in reality, not that it matters, because neither PS3 nor x360 are capable of decoding anywhere near that many.

Still, you like your little pissing matches, so I decided to step up to the plate...

and what source is going to push 1gigabit data through the stream ? a hardrive ? i think not , or are you now going to go out on a limb and claim you can just hook up 80 computers to the gigaports and do it that way . Sadly the ps3 will need expensive devices like pcs to stream this . While the xbox 360 is self contained .

I think u just pissed your own pants really .

 

[Gholbine]

Blu-Ray, gigabit lan, bluetooth, dual HDMI and 1080p.

Sorry, but there's absolutely no competition. Blu-Ray alone makes the PS3 far more "future proof'd" than the Xbox 360, but when you throw in all the other features, it becomes downright stupid to compare them.

 

[jvd]

Blu-Ray, gigabit lan, bluetooth, dual HDMI and 1080p.

Sorry, but there's absolutely no competition. Blu-Ray alone makes the PS3 far more "future proof'd" than the Xbox 360.

Care to explain how tech with no certian future can make something future proof ?

Bluray can fail next year . That isn't very futureproof

 

[Gholbine]

Care to explain how tech with no certian future can make something future proof ?

Bluray can fail next year . That isn't very futureproof

Chance of supporting future format for videogames > no chance at all.

Besides, I did say more future-proof'd than the Xbox 360, not completely future proof. I certainly hope you aren't arguing that including a Blu-Ray drive is less future proof than not using a next-gen disc format at all :-\

If you're going to argue that the Xbox 360 may include HD-DVD in the future, don't bother. It's not in the Xbox 360 spec yet so it's not part of the system.

 

[Lacero]

And here I thougth the only thing necessary to make a console future-proof was having fun games on it I could care less about the rest since the only reason I plan to buy a console is play games. If i wanted a movieplayer, a Tivo device or whatever i would buy one.