Shadow of the colossus and framerate issues

[Edge]

Defeated 11 colossi now, and this game is awesome. Love the fact, that with such a huge world, never any loading, after the initial game load. I wish all games was like this.

That horse as your companion is so cool. It works so well.

The visuals for the PS2 are really impressive. Did not think the PS2 could do what's being done in this game. Probably the best quality transparency and particles effects of any game I have ever played.

The game is a masterpiece.

 

[MrWibble]

My copy turned up yesterday afternoon, and I've just finished it (no I haven't been playing it flat-out... I did have other stuff to do...)

Awesome, though IMHO not quite the experience that Ico was. In many ways it's probably superior, but I also found it a little bit more flawed. It's a different game of course; I remember that one of the things I liked about Ico was the pace - obviously when you're fighting giants and clinging on for dear life, it's naturally going to be a little bit more frenetic.

They couldn't have produced another Ico anyway, not without it detracting from the original or being inferior - I'm glad they didn't try. And everyone should get it - if only to make up for the poor sales of Ico and make sure that the team continues to produce stuff of this quality.

I have of course, absolutely no idea what the plot was all about. I'm sort of glad about that, I'm sure speculation is rife but I like the slightly open-ended, make up your own mind, kind of deal. I don't know if the gaps will ever be filled in with another game or whatever, but if not... I can live with it...

I especially liked the fact that as I was slaughtering the Colossi I actually started to feel kind of bad about it and became aware that what I was doing was *not a good thing*. In the absence of a narrative most of this was probably generated by the fact every time I killed one the music went all sad and there was a slow-motion death sequence that seemed really tragic, rather than victorious. That and the fact that the first paragraph in the manual tells you that the creatures are peaceful, I suppose... (oh, and doing deals with demons in forbidden lands to ressurrect dead people in exchange for vaguely defined consequences... that's probably not the best plan in the first place...)

I really really wish the designers behind it could work with some marginally better coders though because although it's beautiful in static scenes, the framerate and aliasing kind of annoyed me at times - the PS2 is capable of better. Didn't affect my enjoyment much though.

However as much as I wish I could've been involved in this project I'm glad it wasn't done by any team I've ever worked on because I just know that if any designer or producer I know had been in charge, by the end of the game the main character would be sporting a rocket launcher and Agro would've been traded in for a dune buggy.

 

[mckmas8808]

However as much as I wish I could've been involved in this project I'm glad it wasn't done by any team I've ever worked on because I just know that if any designer or producer I know had been in charge, by the end of the game the main character would be sporting a rocket launcher and Agro would've been traded in for a dune buggy.

Sad that your producers would have turned this game into something like that. I think you said you are producing a PS3 game with some company right? I just hope your producer and designers don't do something plain and simple like this in this future game.

 

[Edge]

That and the fact that the first paragraph in the manual tells you that the creatures are peaceful

The manual says they roam the land peacefully, but they don't seem to appreciate trespassers, because every single colossi tries to KILL me!!! So I fail to see how something can be considered peaceful, simply because nothing is bothering it, in such a barren land!

 

[pixelbox]

I really really wish the designers behind it could work with some marginally better coders though because although it's beautiful in static scenes, the framerate and aliasing kind of annoyed me at times - the PS2 is capable of better. Didn't affect my enjoyment much though.

I don't know what was worse the l.o.d. or lack of polygons. I'm not sure if the ps2 could better due to that incredible motion blur and impressive fur shading. Then there's the self-shadows, refactions/reflections and intensive lighting. The slowdown appears to be caused by the particle effects, which are by the way the best i've seen this gen. With all of this going on i don't see how ps2 could do any better. I also noticed the jerky framerate at times cause by brief loading of the bits of the level. Maybe that could be improved to help l.o.d. issues. All and all i believe that this game absolutely murders ico imo. It also wouldn't hurt to add extra enemies, then the game would be perfect!

 

[rabidrabbit]

The manual says they roam the land peacefully, but they don't seem to appreciate trespassers, because every single colossi tries to KILL me!!! So I fail to see how something can be considered peaceful, simply because nothing is bothering it, in such a barren land!

Maybe after you kill that first one, the word starts to spread among the Colossi that there's a guy riding a horse searching for them to kill.

 

[MrWibble]

Sad that your producers would have turned this game into something like that. I think you said you are producing a PS3 game with some company right? I just hope your producer and designers don't do something plain and simple like this in this future game.

I'm not writing games at the moment (at least not directly), I'm purely a tech guy now. I'm actually enjoying it a whole lot more...

It's just that in my experience, many designers (and certainly producers, who frequently interfere with the design) aren't terribly creative and cobble together their designs by taking bits and pieces from other games that are popular rather than looking for more original ideas.

 

[London Geezer]

Maybe after you kill that first one, the word starts to spread among the Colossi that there's a guy riding a horse searching for them to kill.

They probably text each other "lttle kid goin round kllng us, tlk l8ers xx"

 

[MrWibble]

Maybe after you kill that first one, the word starts to spread among the Colossi that there's a guy riding a horse searching for them to kill.

That, and the fact that you've ridden up to them carrying the only magic sword in existence that can destroy them. I'd probably consider that slightly threatening.

And actually, many of them aren't all that agressive towards you until you start jumping all over them and stabbing them in the head. There are only a few that outright attack you, and mostly if you run away and hide they leave you alone. So I'd suggest they're being defensive...

 

[MrWibble]

They probably text each other "lttle kid goin round kllng us, tlk l8ers xx"

Stop shaking about, I'm only climbing onto your head to get better mobile reception!

 

[London Geezer]

I think i got my US copy in the mail, at the post office, cause i got a "We missed you!" card from Royal mail... But i still don't have Swap Magic to play imports, the order is still "processing" for some reason, after a week... mmmm....

 

[MrWibble]

I don't know what was worse the l.o.d. or lack of polygons. I'm not sure if the ps2 could better due to that incredible motion blur and impressive fur shading. Then there's the self-shadows, refactions/reflections and intensive lighting. The slowdown appears to be caused by the particle effects, which are by the way the best i've seen this gen. With all of this going on i don't see how ps2 could do any better. I also noticed the jerky framerate at times cause by brief loading of the bits of the level. Maybe that could be improved to help l.o.d. issues. All and all i believe that this game absolutely murders ico imo. It also wouldn't hurt to add extra enemies, then the game would be perfect!

Well I'm extremely thankful you weren't involved in the game then.

When I say it's a bit flawed, I'm only talking about elements of the execution, not fundamentals of the design. A few patches of the game (for me) were too frustrating and punished me a little too hard for minor mistakes, or not knowing exactly what to do. And I'd have liked a little more of the exploration/puzzle elements that crept in towards the end, right from the start.

I'm not even going to argue with you on your continued bizarre assertions about what the PS2 can or can't do based on you peering at your TV and making some stuff up. Suffice to say I don't agree with you at all.

 

[pixelbox]

I'm not even going to argue with you on your continued bizarre assertions about what the PS2 can or can't do based on you peering at your TV and making some stuff up. Suffice to say I don't agree with you at all.

Well for one i'm not blind nor stupid. And i wouldn't go as for as to say i make assertions. So when i see mountains "pop" into thin air, and usually don't see this happen on other platforms, i automatically blaim it on the ps2. You can't tell me that everything i mention about the game is made up. Regardless of the cause of these issues the game is still the best of this gen and most innovative.

When I say it's a bit flawed, I'm only talking about elements of the execution, not fundamentals of the design. A few patches of the game (for me) were too frustrating and punished me a little too hard for minor mistakes, or not knowing exactly what to do. And I'd have liked a little more of the exploration/puzzle elements that crept in towards the end, right from the start.

I'm usually good with games like this. So i beat it im no time. It was a little on the short side, i guess they didn't take into acount the people who breathes these type of games. That's why i wanted to have more enemies besides the colossi. That, and more puzzles for the environment.

 

[rabidrabbit]

Oh, but you can see this "pop up" effect on any platform.
Even on the next gen, I saw a video of a next gen Test Drive game being played and it also had very noticeable pop-up.
It's just not a PS2 limitation really

 

[pixelbox]

Oh, but you can see this "pop up" effect on any platform.
Even on the next gen, I saw a video of a next gen Test Drive game being played and it also had very noticeable pop-up.
It's just not a PS2 limitation really

Really?!

 

[London Geezer]

POP-UP does not happen only on PS2. Regardless, it shouldn't really happen on any of the new platforms, having seen games like Jak&Daxter (1,2 and 3) and many many others with endless draw distance that stretches till your eyes can see it.

It's not something that's down to the hardware specifically, although one might argue that it might be because the hardware is not easy to code for.

The hardware itself has more than enough processing potential to draw a lot more polygons than are shown on many games, as Jak and Ratchet games have shown.

Obviously the ICO team had other things to worry about and in the end worrying about pop-up might not have been one of their priorities.

EDIT: Let's not forget that SOTC has a much better lighting system than most PS2 games, and i'm sure that's having some effect o overall performance. Also some of the particles effects and just the sheer size of the Colossi is quite amazing and not cheap in terms of performance.

 

[rabidrabbit]

Really?!

Yes, it was shown on a french games show (re7) and the footage was from the Amsterdam event.
Pop up was there, definitely.
Then again, I'm not sure the Test Drive for xbox360 was the final build.

 

[pixelbox]

excuse me, let me clear this up before some more misunderstanding happens.
What i meant was popup to that extent was usually found on ps2. And you're right londonboy and that's what i supected. other than that the game is pretty.

 

[mckmas8808]

pixelbox I've played the game for at least 15 hours and I haven't seen a mountain pop out of no where yet. Maybe a piece of grass but not a whole mountain.

 

[London Geezer]

Let's not forget that dirty DVD drives in PS2 have adverse effects on those games that stream environments from the disc continuously.

The same happened on GTA games. Some people experienced more slowdowns and pop-up than others because their drive couldn't handle the streaming because of a number of factors. Dirt, age, scratched discs...