Sega CD + Sega Genesis

[Tagrineth]

And hey, NeoGeo was the exact same board as the arcade MVS counterpart.

It also cost $500 retail.

Yes, but people didn't mind paying $200 for SegaCD, which was just an upgrade for the system they already paid $150+ for. NeoGeo AES failed mainly because the games themselves were at least $75, all the way up to $500.

Majority of SegaCD buyers already owned a Genesis, so getting the $200 SegaCD wasn't a big deal.

Getting a $500 system IS, though. Look how badly 3DO failed and its asking price was a ridiculous $700.

 

[Reznor007]

So that's about $400 for Genesis+SegaCD...not far off from NeoGeo. The NeoGeo games were the big detractor, there are some great games on it, but paying at least $75 is a put off for most people.

 

[Tagrineth]

So that's about $400 for Genesis+SegaCD...not far off from NeoGeo. The NeoGeo games were the big detractor, there are some great games on it, but paying at least $75 is a put off for most people.

AGAIN, most people didn't buy their Genesis only when the SegaCD came out.

Most people who bought SegaCD, already HAD a Genesis, so the money paid for the Genesis was immaterial.

More power to the people who paid the $350-400 for a Genesis + SegaCD all at once, of course, but those people were pretty rare, just like NeoGeo AES buyers.

For most people who actually bought SegaCD, it was like a regular $200 console purchase, not a massive $400.

 

[Grall]

I know alot about arcade games actually. I have close to 20 arcade PCB's, ranging from Ninja Turtles to Blitz '99.

And hey, NeoGeo was the exact same board as the arcade MVS counterpart.

It's the exact same board because it was developed as both a home and arcade product. Pure arcade boards are usually massive and crowded with chips.

*G*

 

[Reznor007]

I know alot about arcade games actually. I have close to 20 arcade PCB's, ranging from Ninja Turtles to Blitz '99.

And hey, NeoGeo was the exact same board as the arcade MVS counterpart.

It's the exact same board because it was developed as both a home and arcade product. Pure arcade boards are usually massive and crowded with chips.

*G*

Have you seen a NeoGeo board yourself? They do have alot of chips. It is also bigger than a Killer Instinct1/2 arcade PCB(I have both).

The only boards that are generally massive are Atari's boards like Steel Talons or Primal Rage. I have Primal Rage, and it's almost 2 feet long and has ~100 basic logic chips, along with some CPU's and a bunch of ROMs.

The other large boards are the insanely complex Sega and Namco 3d boards like Model 1 and System21. Virtua Racing is comprised of 4 main boards for the network(small), video(large), CPU(large), and ROM's(small). It also has a medium sized sound board with a small daughterboard. And big force feedback driver board. Cybersled has a crate with 4 large PCB's in it.

Arcades are my hobby and job, so I know a fair amount about them.

 

[zurich]

I know alot about arcade games actually. I have close to 20 arcade PCB's, ranging from Ninja Turtles to Blitz '99.

And hey, NeoGeo was the exact same board as the arcade MVS counterpart.

It's the exact same board because it was developed as both a home and arcade product. Pure arcade boards are usually massive and crowded with chips.

*G*

Have you seen a NeoGeo board yourself? They do have alot of chips. It is also bigger than a Killer Instinct1/2 arcade PCB(I have both).

The only boards that are generally massive are Atari's boards like Steel Talons or Primal Rage. I have Primal Rage, and it's almost 2 feet long and has ~100 basic logic chips, along with some CPU's and a bunch of ROMs.

The other large boards are the insanely complex Sega and Namco 3d boards like Model 1 and System21. Virtua Racing is comprised of 4 main boards for the network(small), video(large), CPU(large), and ROM's(small). It also has a medium sized sound board with a small daughterboard. And big force feedback driver board. Cybersled has a crate with 4 large PCB's in it.

Arcades are my hobby and job, so I know a fair amount about them.

Do they really need to be that big and expensive? Console hardware should be powerful and cheap enough - this would yield higher profits yes?

 

[Reznor007]

Actually Namco System10,11,12, Capcom ZN1/2, and a few others used a slightly modified PS1 chipset. Sega STV was a Saturn, Sega C2 was essentially a Genesis, Nintendo VS system and PlayChoice 10 was an NES, Namco System246 is a PS2, Triforce/System31 is Gamecube, Naomi is a Dreamcast, Naomi2 is a Dreamcast on steroids, so the idea isn't anything new

However, for the time that Model 1 was around(1992), real time 3d was on the cutting edge, so Sega went through a ton of stuff getting it to work. Steel Talons is another example of just throwing more chips at something to fix the problem

 

[megadrive0088]

I knew that System11 and several other boards like Capcom's ZN1/2 and Taito's FX-1A/B Systems are basicly Playstation chipsets modified for arcade use with a bit more RAM/VRAM. (while System12 is a beefed up Playstation) but what is System10? I haven't heard of that, at least not that it was a Playstation board. no need to answer I'll just look on System16 or Google it. edit: yep it's a Playstation-based board for Namco's Mr Driller and dance games.

The Namco's System21 aka 'Polygonizer' used in Cyber Sled, Air Combat, etc and System22 used in Ridge Racer, are among the most complex boards I know about.

 

[Reznor007]

I knew that System11 and several other boards like Capcom's ZN1/2 and Taito's FX-1A/B Systems are basicly Playstation chipsets modified for arcade use with a bit more RAM/VRAM. (while System12 is a beefed up Playstation) but what is System10? I haven't heard of that, at least not that it was a Playstation board. no need to answer I'll just look on System16 or Google it. edit: yep it's a Playstation-based board for Namco's Mr Driller and dance games.

The Namco's System21 aka 'Polygonizer' used in Cyber Sled, Air Combat, etc and System22 used in Ridge Racer, are among the most complex boards I know about.

I've worked on a Cybersled board before. 4 large PCB's in a crate all for 1 crappy game And just a few years later, Soul Edge was available with much better graphics on a TINY PCB(smaller than the old model PS1).

System11 is a PSX with a custom sound chip. System12 has a custom sound chip and more RAM/VRAM, it's not actually clocked faster as previously thought. And it turns out the encryption available on the board isn't really used.

Mr. Driller may not have been System10, as a System12 version was recently dumped(and works perfectly in Zinc, the arcade PSX emulator).

 

[megadrive0088]

According to System16.com, the System12 has the same amount of RAM/VRAM as System11, 2MB RAM, 2MB VRAM, but is clocked at 48 Mhz rather than PSX/System11's 33 Mhz. however, System16.com has been known to make mistakes.

I was under the impression that it both a CPU clockspeed increase, a RAM/VRAM increase and a GPU speed/power increase, to around 50%
higher than PSX/System11. but it seems its just more memory.