Sega CD + Sega Genesis

K.I.L.E.R

Retarded moron
Veteran
What's the hardware differences between those 2? I know that the Sega CD fits on top of a Genesis but has anything improved other than 500MB of data on 1 cd? :)
 
The SegaCD / MegaCD adds an additional 68000 processor, running at 12.5 Mhz and an ASIC for scaling and rotation. the Genesis' 7.6 Mhz 68000 and Sega CD's 12.5 Mhz 68000 can run in parallel. the scaling & rotation of SegaCD is superior to that of SNES, as SegaCD can do true independant sprite scaling, unlike SNES which simply scales the background.

what is perplexing to me is, the SegaCD does not give additional sprites, parallex background layers or color pallete / display capability beyond that of the base Genesis specs. at least not in hardware. although there are some amazing SegaCD games with huge sprites and good color that you would not find on Genesis. for example Final Fight CD absolutely crushes Streets of Rage 1,2,3 in sprite size and animation. well, the CD can hold gobs of animation compared to a cart, but its the sprite size and color where I am trying to draw the comparasion with SoR.


IMHO, SegaCD should have had extra VDP chips for a larger color pallete, say 262,144 to 16M colors, with the ability to display 32,768 on screen (the pallete of the SNES) high resolution of at least 512x448 (SNES res) or higher, plus 512-1024 sprites, plus 4-5 parallex layers, in addition to the scaling & rotation chip that the actual SegaCD had. Also, perhaps two additional 68000s instead of one additional 68000, for a total of three 68000 CPUs (2 in SegaCD, 1 in Genesis) to match the hardware found in OutRun/AfterBurner/SuperMonacoGP/ThunderBlade/Galaxy Force/Power Drift/G-Loc. While that's no where near Saturn's 2D power, it would have been a great improvment over Genesis, enough to beat SNES and NeoGeo.

SegaCD woulda' shoulda' been the ULTIMATE 16-bit machine. able to handle more than exact ports of multi 68000 System16 Sega games, NeoGeo games and Capcom CPS1/CPS2 games!
 
In retrospect, to put it simply, my vision/desire for Genesis and SegaCD was quite simple. I wanted Genesis to be based on the standard single 68000 System16B board used in Shinobi, Altered Beast, Golden Axe, etc. like the NeoGeo console was based on MVS arcade. that means Genesis would've had 128 sprites, 4096 colors, (pallete or display, i forget) and simple zooming/scaling.

then a few years later, the SegaCD comes along and boosts the Genesis to Galaxy Force II/PowerDrift/G-Loc class hardware with additional 68000s, sprites and full-on scaling & rotation.
 
I miss Sonic CD. It was by far the best game in the series... and irritates me that Sonic Team left it out of the GC compilation.
 
I think your wishes were simply not feasible in hardware. The video converter (CRTC) was located in the Sega Genesis, and likely 'not expandable.' (As I recall, the Genesis's video-DAC was a paltry 9-bit/RGB or 512 values.) In order to increase that, the Genesis's hardware expansion bus would need to somehow offer a bypass-mechanism (i.e. pass an analog-video signal directly to the Genesis's composite output port.)

Time for me to shut up now, cause I ain't no Genesis expert...I suppose the Genesis emulator authors should comment more about the wackiness of my idea :)

Hey, didn't the Genesis have some Z80 CPU for audio-processing?!? (And did this have something to do with the Genesis's semi-backward compatibility with the Sega Measter System?!?)
 
Ok, what about the 32x? It certainly offers a large improvement over the genesis.....heck, was the genesis even used at all in that? However, the genesis's video did plug into the 32x, and the 32x was hooked up to the tv....
 
The reason the 32x was able to display 32,768 colors was that it had its own TV-Out. IIRC there was also a pass through connector which one would run from the megadrive "a/v-out" into an "a/v-in" on the 32x console. (think old 3dfx) Which if I guess right only existed so you could play MD/Genesis games without unplugging your 32x; I doubt the 32x coprocessed much of anything with the MD. :LOL: The whole "pass-through" process was little more than a cheesy marketing gimmick or a cheap way to interface with the MegaCD. In any case here's some real data from real gurus...

http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/32x/game/22683.html

EDIT: Hey Quinn, I can tell you never played 32X Virtua Fighter 1. 99% as good as the Saturn VF1. :p
 
megadrive0088 said:
In retrospect, to put it simply, my vision/desire for Genesis and SegaCD was quite simple. I wanted Genesis to be based on the standard single 68000 System16B board used in Shinobi, Altered Beast, Golden Axe, etc. like the NeoGeo console was based on MVS arcade. that means Genesis would've had 128 sprites, 4096 colors, (pallete or display, i forget) and simple zooming/scaling.

then a few years later, the SegaCD comes along and boosts the Genesis to Galaxy Force II/PowerDrift/G-Loc class hardware with additional 68000s, sprites and full-on scaling & rotation.

Adding the System32 hardware would have been better. A perfect console port of Golden Axe 2 would have been a big seller.

And just my opinion on something...the Genesis+SegaCD+32x together looks a monsterous piece of frankenhardware...
 
Arcade boards from the past usually consists of MANY chips, and they're unsuited to being folded down to an (open, in some cases) pocketbook-sized PCB for inclusion in a console. System32, or any other kind of arcade hardware, would most likely have been totally unreasonable from a cost POV.

*G*
 
Adding the System32 hardware would have been better. A perfect console port of Golden Axe 2 would have been a big seller.

Not possible in 1990 (MegaCD's release) as System32 did not exist until 1991 in arcades, in Rad Mobile. besides, that's what GigaDrive was in development for, to be a home console version of System32.

System32 had 8000+ sprites, 256 colors per sprite. I was talking about only 512 to 1024 sprites for MegaCD :p to boost the 128 sprites of Genesis / System16 (which in this fictional senereo, Genesis is based 100% on System16, unlike the real Genesis which does only 80 sprites, has no hardware zooming, and is weaker than System16 )


And just my opinion on something...the Genesis+SegaCD+32x together looks a monsterous piece of frankenhardware...

I know, and I agree here. that is why in my fictional senareo, there is NO 32x, but simply a 32-Bit GigaDrive / Saturn, that is, based on souped-up
System32 + Model 1 boards, combined, released in 1994, to replace Genesis+SegaCD. The System32 is 1991 arcade hardware, the Model 1 is 1992 hardware. both could have been shrunk down into console hardware for 1994, while the Model 2 from 1994 would have been arcade only technology for a few years.
 
Grall said:
Arcade boards from the past usually consists of MANY chips, and they're unsuited to being folded down to an (open, in some cases) pocketbook-sized PCB for inclusion in a console. System32, or any other kind of arcade hardware, would most likely have been totally unreasonable from a cost POV.

*G*

I know alot about arcade games actually. I have close to 20 arcade PCB's, ranging from Ninja Turtles to Blitz '99.

And hey, NeoGeo was the exact same board as the arcade MVS counterpart.
 
megadrive0088 said:
Adding the System32 hardware would have been better. A perfect console port of Golden Axe 2 would have been a big seller.

Not possible in 1990 (MegaCD's release) as System32 did not exist until 1991 in arcades, in Rad Mobile. besides, that's what GigaDrive was in development for, to be a home console version of System32.

System32 had 8000+ sprites, 256 colors per sprite. I was talking about only 512 to 1024 sprites for MegaCD :p to boost the 128 sprites of Genesis / System16 (which in this fictional senereo, Genesis is based 100% on System16, unlike the real Genesis which does only 80 sprites, has no hardware zooming and is weaker than System16 )


And just my opinion on something...the Genesis+SegaCD+32x together looks a monsterous piece of frankenhardware...

I know, and I agree here. that is why in my fictional senareo, there is NO 32x, but simply a 32-Bit GigaDrive / Saturn, that is based souped up
System32 + Model 1 boards, combined, released in 1994, to replace Genesis+SegaCD.

I know System32 wasn't available yet, but they should have waited. It would have been a better upgrade.

I never heard about the Gigadrive, but Model 1 was way too complex to put in a console. I own 3 Virtua Racing arcade board sets, and they are quite massive.
 
of course, when I say that, in my fictional senareo, MD/Genesis is 100% equal to System16, it is in performance, but the MD/Genesis chips are newer, less costly. there are less of them too, because many chips of the older arcade board (1985-86) would be replaced by fewer chips with the same functions combined (1988-1989)

Then the addon MegaCD/SegaCD would have had the same performance as PowerDrift/GalaxyForce II. two additional 68000s for three in total. a triple 68000 System16 equivalant. actually somewhat better. 512-1024 sprites for SegaCD compared to 256-512 sprites for GFII hardware.
although in no way would SegaCD have been a System32.


The relationship between System16 and MD/Genesis would have not been quite the same as SNK MVS and NEOGEO AES, in that the gfx and audio chips are different in Genesis compared to System16. but Genesis has (should have had) the same ability. Where as SNK MVS and NEOGEO AES share the EXACT same chipset. (AFAIK) - in the end though, the RESULT would have been the same. MD/Genesis does 100% exact reproductions of single 68000 System16 games (Shinobi, AB, GA) in gameplay, audio and graphics, much like NEOGEO MVS
(more powerful than System16 IRL) does exact copies of MVS games.

Same for the MegaCD/SegaCD, having the same capability as the multi- 68000 GalaxyForceII /PowerDrift hardware. not the same chips, but the same or better functionality/performance.

kinda like in the real world, how the Saturn's VDPs have very similar functions to Sega's 32-bit arcade sprite hardware, even though Saturn chips are different. as many processors / chips as Saturn has, it is still FEWER chip than the System32 board, or similar arcade hardware. but the performance is the same or better. (talking sprite hardware, NOT polys)

Of course, this is a fictional senareo, not what happened IRL. obviously I'm not an engineer or programmer (just a huge fan of Sega consoles and Sega arcades) and there are things that make is difficult, things that I am not thinking of. that said however, look at the Sharp X68000 as an example. it was released in 1986 and had more power than most arcade machines at the time. only the highend arcades from Sega outpowered it. The X68000 of 1986 was as powerful as Capcom's CPS1 of 1988 or Sega's single 68000 System16 of 1985-86.
 
I know System32 wasn't available yet, but they should have waited. It would have been a better upgrade.

I never heard about the Gigadrive, but Model 1 was way too complex to put in a console. I own 3 Virtua Racing arcade board sets, and they are quite massive.


While I could go along with that for the sake of agreement (hehe) Sega kinda needed something in 1990/1991 to face the SuperFami/SNES released in Japan and U.S. respectively. A System32 based home console could not have been released until 1993 at the soonest. (in real life, Sega said they had a more powerful console in 1993, more powerful than 3DO, waiting in the wings but would release it when the time was right.

The GigaDrive was the original code-name for Sega's 32-Bit sucessor to the MegaDrive. this was first heard about in late 1990 / early 1991 in several magazines including EGM. GigaDrive was, IRL, going to be based on the System32. The GigaDrive eventually evolved into the Jupitor/Mars32X/Saturn, of which, only 32x and Saturn got released.
 
Tagrineth said:
Reznor007 said:
And hey, NeoGeo was the exact same board as the arcade MVS counterpart.

It also cost $500 retail.

Yes, but people didn't mind paying $200 for SegaCD, which was just an upgrade for the system they already paid $150+ for. NeoGeo AES failed mainly because the games themselves were at least $75, all the way up to $500.

GoldenAxe2 was only about 25MB of ROMS uncompressed. NeoGeo ROMs go up to about 100MB uncompressed. Sega could have kept costs to a reasonable level.
 
megadrive0088 said:
of course, when I say that, in my fictional senareo, MD/Genesis is 100% equal to System16, it is in performance, but the MD/Genesis chips are newer, less costly. there are less of them too, because many chips of the older arcade board (1985-86) would be replaced by fewer chips with the same functions combined (1988-1989)

Then the addon MegaCD/SegaCD would have had the same performance as PowerDrift/GalaxyForce II. two additional 68000s for three in total. a triple 68000 System16 equivalant. actually somewhat better. 512-1024 sprites for SegaCD compared to 256-512 sprites for GFII hardware.
although in no way would SegaCD have been a System32.


The relationship between System16 and MD/Genesis would have not been quite the same as SNK MVS and NEOGEO AES, in that the gfx and audio chips are different in Genesis compared to System16. but Genesis has (should have had) the same ability. Where as SNK MVS and NEOGEO AES share the EXACT same chipset. (AFAIK) - in the end though, the RESULT would have been the same. MD/Genesis does 100% exact reproductions of single 68000 System16 games (Shinobi, AB, GA) in gameplay, audio and graphics, much like NEOGEO MVS
(more powerful than System16 IRL) does exact copies of MVS games.

Same for the MegaCD/SegaCD, having the same capability as the multi- 68000 GalaxyForceII /PowerDrift hardware. not the same chips, but the same or better functionality/performance.

kinda like in the real world, how the Saturn's VDPs have very similar functions to Sega's 32-bit arcade sprite hardware, even though Saturn chips are different. as many processors / chips as Saturn has, it is still FEWER chip than the System32 board, or similar arcade hardware. but the performance is the same or better. (talking sprite hardware, NOT polys)

Of course, this is a fictional senareo, not what happened IRL. obviously I'm not an engineer or programmer (just a huge fan of Sega consoles and Sega arcades) and there are things that make is difficult, things that I am not thinking of. that said however, look at the Sharp X68000 as an example. it was released in 1986 and had more power than most arcade machines at the time. only the highend arcades from Sega outpowered it. The X68000 of 1986 was as powerful as Capcom's CPS1 of 1988 or Sega's single 68000 System16 of 1985-86.

Actually STV/Saturn has more than System32, and that's not counting the VDP's in Saturn/STV or the SH1 in Saturn(for CDROM control).
 
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