Scientology
- Thread starter K.I.L.E.R
- Start date
Don't ignore Judaism. 
i am not trying to ignore it, but it doesn't really fit anywhere near "the other two major religions", at least not if you are going by percentage of population which seems the only fair way to me. in that case Buddhism beats Judaism with a stick, even as un-Buddhist as beating with a stick is.
but seriously, i am really just curious as to why Saem is singleing out a top 3; and if he even understands what that would be.
but seriously, i am really just curious as to why Saem is singleing out a top 3; and if he even understands what that would be.
zidane1strife
Banned
Thing is worst I can do is make others feel bad... and feeling bad for an instant is part of God's gift of existence... It is necessary to feel the lows in life in order to experience the highs in it... If I dissapointed my Lord with my behavior, I think It'd be uneccesary to go to great lengths to make up for it... maybe if I wanted to, but it would not be necessary...
It is not as if I actually willfully attempted against one of my kin, much less against God... we cannot even understand our very actions... nor the nature of our beings... all we are harming is material/physical objects, machinery housing the unfanthomable...
Many times, we injure/hurt others without even noticing... yet it does not matter IOW the act, the injury is not what's important... the only thing that matters is our intention, intentions that are based on ignorance, we can do good having bad intentions, and do wrong with good intentions, or even without being aware of it...
Having malevolent intentions is erring, it is comitting a mistake, it is to be expected that we would comit such mistakes, given our capabilities... and that some of us would be unnable to see such mistakes and atone for them it is part of the overall plan, it is actually taken into account....
It is pointless to say that we have done an unforgivable harm to our Lord with our actions, for they are the actions of the ignorant, of the blind, of the innocent... We are forgiven for we do not know what we are doing...
God has given us a task and he knows that we may fail him... to assume he would take our failure as an unforgivable offense.... is inconceivable to me...
To say that God takes the place of those we err against, and that he's looking for revenge is preposterous... It is clear, that like those "You are the chosen people." words it is something to mold the religion for it to be more palatable to the people for which it is intended at that time...
Once sacrifices were needed, sins passed from gen to gen... now that we've acquired more abilities we have been given a better picture... and when we've progressed enough we will be given even more divine knowledge...
You cannot overwhelm simple creatures with the full blown message, you've got to give it to them little by little so they're able to handle it.
horvendile
Regular
Saem said:
That makes the first statement rather funny, IMHO!
Saem said:
I think you're using those three as the definition simply because of your own religion (which I believe is Islam). They're the Abrahamic religions that you've been exposed to, so they're the "major ones".
Here's a link on a website (that is christian oriented). Scroll down for the pertinant information that is supposedly from Ency. Brittanica. http://christianparty.net/christianpopulation.htm
In the US: its Christian, non-religious, Jewish, Muslim. Overall, Judaism is pretty dang small compared even to Buddhists or Chinese folk religion.
horvendile
Regular
Wow... that's one scary site!
They actually do frenology.
Random link: "How jews destroyed our children".
And what do you know, I think I found open racism too. It wasn't even as if I had to look hard.
Once again:
Hrm. Serves me right for skipping over information I wasn't interested in.
For the record: searching on yahoo for "world religious population" brought this one up as one of the ones at the top.
I'm not concerned/interested/a part of/ anything else on that website.
For the record: searching on yahoo for "world religious population" brought this one up as one of the ones at the top.
I'm not concerned/interested/a part of/ anything else on that website.
horvendile
Regular
RussSchultz said:
I guessed as much; in fact, I contemplated adding a comment stating that I didn't believe you were, but out of laziness I resorted to just removing your name from the quotation!
Considering what was found by horvendile you may as well look for another source for the figure. Not saying it is correct/incorrect just saying the source is no good. Period.
And Russ I don't many people would affiliate you with a site that tolerates/propagates racist views.
I would also like to add to what Saem may have meant if I may do so:
I think his wording was bad but in the Western Hemisphere and Middle Eastern region the majority of religions fall under Islam, Christianity and Judaism... Islam vouches for all three religions and whilst in Hadith it accepts there were many Prophets/Messengers it does not elaborate where they are to be found and who they were apart from the Prophets of the People of the Book (i.e. Torah, Psalms, Bible etc).
The main and crucial point of Islam is that of Tawheed, the Oneness of Allah, in an other word monotheism. Ascribing a partner to Allah will bring you out of the fold of Islam. Period.
This is the first part of the testimony a person must give at least once in their life to be considered a muslim. This is called the "Shahadah" or "Witness."
Islam says this is also the foundation of Christianity and Judaism and therefore ascribes the People of Christianity and Judaism as People of the Book (i.e. Torah, Psalms, Bible)... however this is a complex issue and I want to concentrate on the Ayat I quoted before. I hope to bring some more soon and to open up the discussion again on them even though the previous Ayat have been met with a cold response.
And Russ I don't many people would affiliate you with a site that tolerates/propagates racist views.
I would also like to add to what Saem may have meant if I may do so:
I think his wording was bad but in the Western Hemisphere and Middle Eastern region the majority of religions fall under Islam, Christianity and Judaism... Islam vouches for all three religions and whilst in Hadith it accepts there were many Prophets/Messengers it does not elaborate where they are to be found and who they were apart from the Prophets of the People of the Book (i.e. Torah, Psalms, Bible etc).
The main and crucial point of Islam is that of Tawheed, the Oneness of Allah, in an other word monotheism. Ascribing a partner to Allah will bring you out of the fold of Islam. Period.
This is the first part of the testimony a person must give at least once in their life to be considered a muslim. This is called the "Shahadah" or "Witness."
Islam says this is also the foundation of Christianity and Judaism and therefore ascribes the People of Christianity and Judaism as People of the Book (i.e. Torah, Psalms, Bible)... however this is a complex issue and I want to concentrate on the Ayat I quoted before. I hope to bring some more soon and to open up the discussion again on them even though the previous Ayat have been met with a cold response.
'Consider that the old testament detailed the old covenant with God, and is not the core of the belief system of Christians. The old covenant demanded blood sacrifice for transgressions and God was a vengeful God. '
I love how 'God' keeps changing his mind! Must have sucked to be born 2000 years ago. Monty Python anyone?
I love how 'God' keeps changing his mind! Must have sucked to be born 2000 years ago. Monty Python anyone?
Tahir said:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/worldrel.htm
Their numbers look identical. Their banner ad is for "Looking for a pagan event for Memorial Day", so I can only imagine they're not too kookie
As for Islam--its an interesting religion, and I respect the pure monotheistic aspect of it. I'd even go as far to say that I'd consider 'turning moslem', except its just got too many rules, many of which _to me_ seem rooted in ethnicity and history, rather than spiritual origin. That and the extreme ritualization of the mode of worship. It is not a personal journey, but a cultural one.
Perhaps I just want a religion that is tailor made to me, that I pick and choose items that don't inconvenience me, but make me feel pius.
Now, rastafanarianism has a definate draw...
I know what you mean, but this might be due to the way you've been exposed to the religion. I'm guessing you're exposure has had a lot to do with practioners. I think the only real way to figure out what Islam is all about is to pick up a Qu'ran with english translation, find someone who knows Arabic and go through the english translation, if anything seems fishy ask the Arabic guru to give you their version, usually you end up getting a much better picture of what's going on.
Living in BC, we have a wide selection of ethnic backgrounds and it's suprising to witness the differences between muslims from different parts of the world in what they considering practicing Islam -- outside the obvious. Sometimes culture can "polute" the religion for the individual.
At the same time it should be noted that Islam proposes a way of life/being, thus there are some obvious cultural undertones, but those are born out of the message(s) rather than the other way around.
All the Scientology papers are available on Freenet: http://freenet.sourceforge.net/. I've read some of them, but it's all such bullshit I just can't force my mind to continue reading after a few pages. It should win the Intergalactic Confederation Thetan Supreme Bullshit Award.
Forgive me if this is redundant, I don't have time to read all 5 pages of this discussion.
Forgive me if this is redundant, I don't have time to read all 5 pages of this discussion.
zidane1strife
Banned
The question is when... that alone changes everything... Do we have but this instant? Or is it referring to eternity, it might be understood that one who would never repent and loath God and existence, might forever remain under such misery, for they would never change their erring ways...
The teaching is asking for forgiveness in this life time upto the point of near death, the teaching doesn't guarantee anything after death.
You also have to know, when we ask God for forgiveness, its because of the grace of God in us. If we can't ask for forgiveness when we had the grace of God, it would be impossible, when God finally take the grace away from us.
zidane1strife
Banned
Look V3, It's just that something that's so subjective as an offense... I cannot see as something for which one can be condemned...
For just as beauty is in the eye of the beholder... So are people's considerations for when they've been injured/harmed/offended, the seriousness/gravity of this offense also depends on the individuals... Depending on their age, their religion, their culture, their personality....
Sometimes by removing an arm, or torturing someone you might be doing them a favor... something that they find pleasurable... they might be, but masochists....
Sometimes by caressing someone you might have caused an unforgivable transgression... and they may suffer for the rest of their lives...
It also depends on their position in the evolutive scale... those at the lower end, will tend to do many more perversions...
Those with a higher level of understanding, and a higher intelligence... will tend to look at the things those at lower levels tend to want, and the things they consider serious violations, as trivial... as I said look at an adult and a child... As we grow we experience this... as childs something as insignificant as the removal/stealing/taking of a toy is such a serious offense... later as teens things like gossip, and the like, are the focus of our attentions... then as adults we see things in another light, but still society is part of our focus, along with things of a higher level... things go on and some see the light... but alas we cannot rise farther, not yet...
I might have the best intentions, and in my attempt to do good... cause untold suffering....
I might have the worst intentions, and hatred inside me.... and beget an utopic paradise, where human suffering is no more....
as you can see both these consequences were reached unwittingly...
Am I to be judged by my actions or by my feelings or intentions?
It too might occur that a sin considered insignificant to others... might be considered by one as the worst of sins.... something unforgivable... and the greatest of sins for many... might be considered insignificant to one, something they wouldn't mind even if it were done to them..
Whose perspective is right? Is it that of I who am in a train getting nearer to you.... or that of you who are stationary seeing me get closer to you? Are they both not right? Isn't it all relative?
Given that both views are right with respect to the individual, one could be mad/insane for all one knows, might one not? If one's views differ from that of others, one's actions, and what is right and wrong for one(iow what one considers right and wrong, and sees as right and wrong), will also be different....
From which perspective will it be judged? From an omnsicient viewpoint... both are correct with respect to whom it concerns, as pointed above...
Then it stands, that we would never desire the eternal condemnation of one who sees, even willingly, that he's done the greatest sin by touching another softly.... nor would one wish eternal paradise for he who thinking he did the greatest of good, has caused infinite suffering/pain...
Or will it be from the side of he who receives, I might consider the greatest harm to many, to be the greatest aid/good to me... With such differences... Anything could be an act of injury or something commendable...
Religions, beliefs, intellectual capacity, knowledge, biological drives, further divide us...
Upon whom's perspective will the judgement be done? Certainly not that of the individual, for he might condemn himself/others for something trivial... and likewise he might consider himself/others worthy of paradise for another trivial reason...
Then it stands that it is best that all be forgiven.... we will never repent, much less even remember all the wrongs we've done... the opinion on their gravity will even differ among individuals...
I find the idea that someone who freezes himself, or simply lives longer might later on have more chances to repent... while if I sin today and die in the act, I'd never repent and be eternally condemned... unacceptable...
Furthermore even when seen from an omniscient viewpoint, all the characters in the play/tv/movie might be deemed all worthy, all good.... true one might deem one of the characters evil(it might also be do to bias..)... but one would never judge the actor, the inmortal soul as evil...
edited
For just as beauty is in the eye of the beholder... So are people's considerations for when they've been injured/harmed/offended, the seriousness/gravity of this offense also depends on the individuals... Depending on their age, their religion, their culture, their personality....
Sometimes by removing an arm, or torturing someone you might be doing them a favor... something that they find pleasurable... they might be, but masochists....
Sometimes by caressing someone you might have caused an unforgivable transgression... and they may suffer for the rest of their lives...
It also depends on their position in the evolutive scale... those at the lower end, will tend to do many more perversions...
Those with a higher level of understanding, and a higher intelligence... will tend to look at the things those at lower levels tend to want, and the things they consider serious violations, as trivial... as I said look at an adult and a child... As we grow we experience this... as childs something as insignificant as the removal/stealing/taking of a toy is such a serious offense... later as teens things like gossip, and the like, are the focus of our attentions... then as adults we see things in another light, but still society is part of our focus, along with things of a higher level... things go on and some see the light... but alas we cannot rise farther, not yet...
I might have the best intentions, and in my attempt to do good... cause untold suffering....
I might have the worst intentions, and hatred inside me.... and beget an utopic paradise, where human suffering is no more....
as you can see both these consequences were reached unwittingly...
Am I to be judged by my actions or by my feelings or intentions?
It too might occur that a sin considered insignificant to others... might be considered by one as the worst of sins.... something unforgivable... and the greatest of sins for many... might be considered insignificant to one, something they wouldn't mind even if it were done to them..
Whose perspective is right? Is it that of I who am in a train getting nearer to you.... or that of you who are stationary seeing me get closer to you? Are they both not right? Isn't it all relative?
Given that both views are right with respect to the individual, one could be mad/insane for all one knows, might one not? If one's views differ from that of others, one's actions, and what is right and wrong for one(iow what one considers right and wrong, and sees as right and wrong), will also be different....
From which perspective will it be judged? From an omnsicient viewpoint... both are correct with respect to whom it concerns, as pointed above...
Then it stands, that we would never desire the eternal condemnation of one who sees, even willingly, that he's done the greatest sin by touching another softly.... nor would one wish eternal paradise for he who thinking he did the greatest of good, has caused infinite suffering/pain...
Or will it be from the side of he who receives, I might consider the greatest harm to many, to be the greatest aid/good to me... With such differences... Anything could be an act of injury or something commendable...
Religions, beliefs, intellectual capacity, knowledge, biological drives, further divide us...
Upon whom's perspective will the judgement be done? Certainly not that of the individual, for he might condemn himself/others for something trivial... and likewise he might consider himself/others worthy of paradise for another trivial reason...
Then it stands that it is best that all be forgiven.... we will never repent, much less even remember all the wrongs we've done... the opinion on their gravity will even differ among individuals...
I find the idea that someone who freezes himself, or simply lives longer might later on have more chances to repent... while if I sin today and die in the act, I'd never repent and be eternally condemned... unacceptable...
Furthermore even when seen from an omniscient viewpoint, all the characters in the play/tv/movie might be deemed all worthy, all good.... true one might deem one of the characters evil(it might also be do to bias..)... but one would never judge the actor, the inmortal soul as evil...
edited