Rumor: Slim PS3 on the way?

[dobwal]

I'm not saying that selling above the cost was key to Nintendo's success. I'm saying that selling below cost is unnecessary. And dangerous, if your whole profitability strategy hinges on you being in first place. And I'm saying that the other companies have noticed this as well -- Stringer has even remarked on it.

It is necessary under certain circumstances, you honestly think that if MS and Sony sold their respective console for even just 20 dollars above cost that we will have 55 million PS360 in the market right now? What do you think is more dangerous the above scenario with prices hitting the $700 or $800 dollar range or the PS3 or 360's only costing $250 dollars to manufacture at launch and launching at a retail price of $350. A subidization model doesn't require first place but requiring software sales to make up 100s of dollars of subidization on your hardware probably does. Success has more to do with the manufacturer ability to produce a profit model that will work well with the reality they will face during a generation. Both MS and Sony have bascially failed at that concept while Nintendo has succeeded beyond their wildest expectation.

It doesn't have new features, it has the label of 'premium'. Yeah, they're only doing it because they have to sell it at higher margins. But they're not doing that because they don't believe in the PSP as a profit generator -- I'm pretty sure that Sony makes money off the 3000 line by now. The price is higher because the idea is for even retailers to make actual money off gaming hardware. That is a novel idea, and one not even Nintendo was gutsy enough to try -- but absolutely necessary, since DD will cut deeply into the retailer's bottom-line. And of course, we're shocked. Sony has practically gone on record on this retailer-markup, too.

I see your point. The PSP Go has to sell at a higher or what retailer would want to carry a gaming machine that has bascially chopped off a big chunk of potential game and accessory sales with DD only and the inclusion of flash.

 

[obonicus]

It is necessary under certain circumstances, you honestly think that if MS and Sony sold their respective console for even just 20 dollars above cost that we will have 55 million PS360 in the market right now? What do you think is more dangerous the above scenario with prices hitting the $700 or $800 dollar range or the PS3 or 360's only costing $250 dollars to manufacture at launch and launching at a retail price of $350. A subidization model doesn't require first place but requiring software sales to make up 100s of dollars of subidization on your hardware probably does. Success has more to do with the manufacturer ability to produce a profit model that will work well with the reality they will face during a generation. Both MS and Sony have bascially failed at that concept while Nintendo has succeeded beyond their wildest expectation.

I agree with you. I'm not saying that they should have sold their current consoles at a loss. I'm saying that to have hardware at reasonable prices, we should start expecting more 'reasonable' hardware. The PSP Go! 'relaunch' at a higher price point feels like a clumsy way of doing what Nintendo did more skillfully in 2006.

 

[zed]

A new interesting report from W.Morgan...

Wii HD could damage PS3 comeback, says Wedbush Morgan

damn I should of patented the name wiiHD

 

[Synergy34]

Well the PS2+ wasn't really upgraded. It was quieter and they improved DVD reading, but removed the Firewire and a couple other bits. I think PS3+ fits previous models okay.

Only because they're charging a premium! The new model released several years later on cheaper technology should cost less. Likewise a PS3+ should cost less, both due to lower production costs and because Sony are losing marketshare hand-over-fist, even in 'Sonyland', and sooner or later they need a cheaper box to actually get some new install base!

I'm pretty sure they added 480p DVD playback with that model and 100% sure they put in the IR for the remote. I traded in my launch PS2 for it.

 

[fallguy]

Wasn't the DSi released at a higher price point though?

(I'm unaware, as I don't really follow Nintendo systems anymore)

Yes, it did. But its cool to hate Sony. So there you go.

 

[taucias]

According to the-magicbox.com, the PSP Go has a 480MHz processor. Just an interesting titbit.

Also reported on that site is that Sony has registered some new patents on Emotion engine emulation on CELL. Could it be that they have worked out a way to emulate the PS2 in software finally?

 

[Sigfried1977]

The Emotion Engine is already emulated by the Cell, and very well emulated too. (every European launch PS3 unit has EE emulation)

 

[DieH@rd]

^ yes but this is a new patent. They are working on something new...

 

[patsu]

What's the difference between this one and the previous ones ? I didn't track (coz I have a 60Gb PS3).

 

[Shifty Geezer]

^ yes but this is a new patent. They are working on something new...

Well a new patent doesn't necessarily mean a new tech. This could be a patent for the work in effect in the current PS2 emulation. Patents can be published a couple of years after they are filed. Regardless, it's the emulation of GS that needs to be cracked, and we haven't had any word on that.

 

[taucias]

The Emotion Engine is already emulated by the Cell, and very well emulated too. (every European launch PS3 unit has EE emulation)

Supposedly, this is "perfect" emulation. I believe the original method used some work arounds.

Of course, the patent could be used to provide more of a (legal) case vs. homebrew emulation, or for technology in future devices. So it is only speculation. However, considering some of the changes Sony have made to the PSP architecture in the Go model (now at 480Mhz), it would be interesting to see if there are changes in the PS3 Slim hardware to allow for more accurate emulation.

Again, speculation only. It IS interesting though...

 

[DieH@rd]

^ Sony has denied that PSP Go will have new 480mhz cpu.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/07/06/sce-pspgos-480mhz-clock-speed-references-usb-not-cpu/

 

[vazel]

^ Sony has denied that PSP Go will have new 480mhz cpu.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/07/06/sce-pspgos-480mhz-clock-speed-references-usb-not-cpu/

How funny mistaking USB's 480Mbps throughput with CPU clock speed.

 

[Crossbar]

Don´t expect any merged Cell-RSX designs any time soon or ever for that matter because it may not cut any costs. They are after all not on the same process as it is today. The Cell requires an advanced SOI-process and the RSX seems to work with an ordinary CMOS bulk-process.

This may change. I found this while searching for some new information on Cell.

Toshiba Corp. (Tokyo) may modify the Cell processor to Toshiba’s bulk CMOS process, moving away from the silicon on insulator (SOI) process, said Atsutoshi Nishida, Toshiba president and CEO.
...

Last month, Toshiba announced an agreement with IBM Corp. for co-development of a 32 nm bulk CMOS process as part of the Fishkill process development alliance.
....

On the plus side, acquisition of Sony’s Nagasaki production facility will allow Toshiba to expand its product portfolio related to the Cell Broadband Engine chipset, the spokesman said. Toshiba plans to target the Cell processor to Toshiba’s bulk CMOS process. In October 2007, the company announced its Cell-based SpursEngine processor, which integrates four of the Cell cores. The SpursEngine, combined with power management and interface ICs, will be sold to customers, including those outside of Toshiba, for graphics applications such as face recognition. The SpursEngine product will be made with a bulk CMOS process, the spokesman said.

It´s almost a year old article but I have not seen this information here.

In any case this may be good news if it is true, since Toshiba this month is supposed to start shipment of flash memory on their 32 nm CMOS process. There may be chance that Cell on 32 nm will turn up on a cheaper process and maybe in the PS3 in 2011 if we are lucky.

 

[Prophecy2k]

I have a question for the more educated among us.

It was something I was wondering regarding the upcoming PS3 Slim and the recent patents for software BC of the EE.

Do you think that there's a possibility that Sony might simply put GS hw back into the (cheaper to manufacture) PS3 Slim (or PS3+ depening on your chosen naming convention)?

I was wondering after reading some of the thoughts of some of the guys on NeoGaf who raised quite an interesting point about possible PS3 pricing. Given that the PSPGo (of course it's a different case, but still hear me out) will launch at $249 (or a rediculous £249 in the uk... grr), Sony may not want to launch the PS3 Slim at $299 given the HUGE difference in value proposition between a PSPGo and PS3 Slim.

If Sony then decided to launch the Slim at £399 and drop the fatty price to clear stock, then it would benefit them to create some more "added value" with the Slim, as they'd lose way more money (per unit sold) clearing the fatty's at £299 than they would selling Slim units.

My subsequent thought was that as the PS3 Slim will come with the added benefit of cheaper production costs etc, couldn't the PS2's GS chip just be added again so that the PS3 Slim would be able to launch with full PS2 BC. That would be a HUGE selling point for the PS3 Slim and could even entice current non-BC fatty owners into upgrading to the Slim post-further price reductions. That could be just what Sony needs to accellerate PS3 sales IMHO.

What do you think guys?

 

[Crossbar]

Sony may not want to launch the PS3 Slim at $299 given the HUGE difference in value proposition between a PSPGo and PS3 Slim.

I really can´t see the problem. The PSP has been more expensive than the PS2 for a long time. Yet people keep on buying it. As long as the PSP cannot play PS3 games they will have different markets. The i-Pod Touch is not cheap either, so the PSP Go is not extreme in any sense.

If Sony then decided to launch the Slim at £399 and drop the fatty price to clear stock, then it would benefit them to create some more "added value" with the Slim, as they'd lose way more money (per unit sold) clearing the fatty's at £299 than they would selling Slim units.

My subsequent thought was that as the PS3 Slim will come with the added benefit of cheaper production costs etc, couldn't the PS2's GS chip just be added again so that the PS3 Slim would be able to launch with full PS2 BC. That would be a HUGE selling point for the PS3 Slim and could even entice current non-BC fatty owners into upgrading to the Slim post-further price reductions. That could be just what Sony needs to accellerate PS3 sales IMHO.

I guess they could but I do not find it very likely, because it was removed to cut cost and it can hardly be cost reduced any further given the size of GS chip.

Given that there are free PS2 emulators running on PCs that can produce amazing graphics for a range of PS2 games and those emulators have been developed by talanted people on their free time, I find it more and more likely that Sony with all their inside knowledge and resources should be able to pull off a decent emulation of the GS using both the Cell and the RSX combined.

You are right PS2 BC is a big selling point for many PS2 owners and Sony is aware of this. It would also give Sony a huge opportunity to sell PS2 games over PSN. I think we can rest assured that Sony is working on this in some way.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

What do you think guys?

I think Sony's pricing of PSPGo is insane, and if they base their pricing strategy on the price of PSP, they deserve to fail.

 

[Prophecy2k]

I'm encouraged by your optimism Crossbar, with regards to PS2 BC on PS3. I'm sure full software BC is possible and I'm hoping that sometime in the near future I'll be able to play ZOE2 on my PS3 all downloaded from the PS Store.

I agree with you too ShiftyGeezer, however i believe that with the home console market being decidedly different than the current portables market (with most of the globe currently not prepared to pay what Sony's asking for the current PS3), I'm quite convinced that Sony aren't stupid enough to mess up the pricing of the PS Slim.

If Bobby Koticks recent comments have been anything to go by, then that would really tick off 3rd party publishers!

 

[Phil]

Oh, ZOE2 runs great on my PS3 I actually completed it a few months ago on it and to be really honest, despite the lacking colours and resolution, it's still a very impressive and good looking game, even by todays standards! Certainly gives many next-gen games a run for its money for sure!

I hope Kojima brings us a ZOE3...

 

[dobwal]

I think Sony's pricing of PSPGo is insane, and if they base their pricing strategy on the price of PSP, they deserve to fail.

Given that its DD only with internal memory now standard, what do you expect? The PSP Go has limited profit potential when its comes to the standard strategy of garnering retail profits. As a retailer you are limited to PSP accessories as software is PSN only and no memory stick needed. The revenue and profits that retailers would normally see through games sales are now factored in to the retail price of the PSP Go.