Ruby Video - HERE! and 2 STUNNING pics :D

[bloodbob]

3. wait for facts before making assumptions - you're assuming that one of your two points here is correct with no foundation.

not jumping on you, just a pointless statement - if you want to argue the point wait for facts etc to show what you believe to be true.

ATI aren't known for modifying images to make certain tech look better, thats nvidias territory

all i can say is watch the tech demo, the quality doesnt really give you anything to compare obviously as its a video - but i really dont think ati need to pull any cheap stunts once theyve shown the Ruby demo to all.

Ehh exactly how do you explain the difference in texture quality stop being a fan boy. The fact is the parts of the image that aren't heavly dependant on the specular highlight are more blurry in the NON-3dc image. Can you give me any reason why the 3dc compression should have anything to cause the image to be more sharp in the 3fc image????
I'm assuming you can't but if you can please post the reason and if its a good reason I will shut the hell up.

 

[Kombatant]

1) ATI are deliberatly using lower quality textures for non 3dc cards Other then normal maps OR
2) ATI have photoshopped the image after taking the screen shots.

or

3) Due to the fact that the compression is so efficient, you can have 3 times more detailed normal maps than before, resulting in enchanced detail everywhere.

 

[bloodbob]

Kombatant how is enchanced normal detail gonna help with something that isn't getting a specular highlight?

Does the hair in the eyebrow look better in the top or bottom image?

 

[dr3amz]

1) ATI are deliberatly using lower quality textures for non 3dc cards Other then normal maps OR
2) ATI have photoshopped the image after taking the screen shots.

or

3) Due to the fact that the compression is so efficient, you can have 3 times more detailed normal maps than before, resulting in enchanced detail everywhere.

beat me to it, forums getting slow!

anyway i don't know enough (no one here does?) about how good 3dc really is.

and with your fanboy comments? sigh

 

[dr3amz]

1) ATI are deliberatly using lower quality textures for non 3dc cards Other then normal maps OR
2) ATI have photoshopped the image after taking the screen shots.

or

3) Due to the fact that the compression is so efficient, you can have 3 times more detailed normal maps than before, resulting in enchanced detail everywhere.

beat me to it, forums getting slow!

anyway i don't know enough (no one here does?) about how good 3dc really is just yet, the tech demos will surely show this.

and with your fanboi comments? sigh

speaking of fanboys, hardocp review is up

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjExLDE=

 

[bloodbob]

Does any of you even know what a normal map is used for? or is?

 

[thop]

[H] is already dead. But Dave's Review is up!!!!

 

[dr3amz]

[H] is already dead. But Dave's Review is up!!!!

quote from hardocp:

While we realize that it is not likely that you will own two X800s, both are worthy of our "Must Have" award. The X800Pro and X800XT-Platinum Edition can both easily be called Must Have [Hardware] by the discerning gamer.

(showed x800 easily beating the 6800 - most games playable at 1600x1200x4aax8af compared to nv's 1280x1024 limit (due to fps issues beyoned this with 4xaa etc).

and yes i know what a normal map is, there's a lovely picture of an old guy on bjorn3ds review.

check it out when its up

 

[darkblu]

Does any of you even know what a normal map is used for? or is?

you're being facetious, right? normal maps are used for specular as well as for diffuse illumination (pssst! the one which does not produce blicks)

 

[dr3amz]

daves review says it all!

check out the serious sam 2 shot - thats what 3dc is all about

 

[thop]

Does the hair in the eyebrow look better in the top or bottom image?

Clearly in the top image.

PS. The SS2 shots, right guy with 3Dc left guy without

http://www.beyond3d.com/reviews/ati/r420_x800/index.php?p=11

 

[bloodbob]

Bloodbob gives up.

Yeah I discard to worry about the difuse lighting its wouldn't be cause the high frequence differences between the two images in the eye brow..

 

[dr3amz]

hehe

well you can clearly se the detail difference on the shoulder pads for example (where red meets white on the ATI chestplates) vs the yellow/orange on the left character.

that looks like the difference you see on the guys facial features, and gives me no reason to doubt that 3Dc sounds and appears to be a truly wonderfull thing

 

[darkblu]

Bloodbob gives up.

Yeah I discard to worry about the difuse lighting its wouldn't be cause the high frequence differences between the two images in the eye brow..

why not? all i can see there is wrinkles-induced shadows - quite within the power of diffuse lighting.

 

[Ylandro]

New Mirror

http://bft060.tn.utwente.nl/RubyDoubleCross.rar

The lab computer at the university. We'll see how it holds up on the load...

Don't tell anyone outside B3D/ 8)

 

[bloodbob]

Oh look guys look what else 3dc can do I love all this fud ATI is spreading.

http://www.extremetech.com/image_popup/0,1554,s=1017&iid=75181,00.asp

I find it sad to see beyond3d using the serious sam 2 image saying that one model is simple using "3dc normal maps" and the other model is using "uncompressed normal maps" this is wrong one model is using a hi-res compressed normal.

This is the kind of comparison that was needed to look at 3dc.

Cheers to driver heaven and anyone else who actually show comparision to other compression methods.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

I find it sad to see beyond3d using the serious sam 2 image saying that one model is simple using "3dc normal maps" and the other model is using "uncompressed normal maps" this is wrong one model is using a hi-res compressed normal.

Huh?

There are only 2 ways to show what 3Dc can do for you:

1) Use the same normal maps in a comparison. Compress one with 3Dc and don't compress the other. In this case, all the compression will do is offer potentially better performance, with slightly worse image qualty.

2) Use HIGHER RESOLUTION 3Dc maps, that take the same memory foot print / bandwidth as an uncompressed map (read: performance is similar), so that you can compare what an increase in image quality you can gain.

What's wrong with option 2?

 

[Dave Baumann]

I find it sad to see beyond3d using the serious sam 2 image saying that one model is simple using "3dc normal maps" and the other model is using "uncompressed normal maps" this is wrong one model is using a hi-res compressed normal.

Yes, I fail to see the issue...?

 

[bloodbob]

1) Use the same normal maps in a comparison. Compress one with 3Dc and don't compress the other. In this case, all the compression will do is offer potentially better performance, with slightly worse image qualty.

Do we know the image quality will be slight worse? I don't see any comparision else where on the page?

2) Use HIGHER RESOLUTION 3Dc maps, that take the same memory foot print / bandwidth as an uncompressed map (read: performance is similar), so that you can compare what an increase in image quality you can gain.

What's wrong with option 2?

Well you don't say your doing? great you can gain that with compressed textures but you can gain the same quality increase at a cost by increase the uncompressed texture resolution.

Its a bit like

Without PS3.0

With PS3.0

Sure it can be done with PS2.0 but it my be somewhat slower.

Just on the 3dc I guess in those screen shots they could be 3dc on the textures in the 2 channel mode on the base textures I some how doubt it though.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Do we know the image quality will be slight worse? I don't see any comparision else where on the page?

It's lossy compression. By definition just taking a texture / normal map and compressing it will make it "worse". Same with DXTC. The benefit comes, just as with DXTC, from taking a higher resolution base texture (or using more normal maps in a scene to make the entire scene higher quality), with little to no performance penalty.

Well you don't say your doing?

I guess it's not obvious to some?

great you can gain that with compressed textures but you can gain the same quality increase at a cost by increase the uncompressed texture resolution.

The whole purpose of compressoin is to get the quality increase without sacrificing performance. Why are you arguing in circles?

Its a bit like

Without PS3.0

With PS3.0

Sure it can be done with PS2.0 but it my be somewhat slower. [/quote]

Again, huh?

You've got two identical images there....I have no idea what you're trying to say.