Rise of the Tomb Raider [XO, XOX, X360, PS4, P4Pro]

[dobwal]

I'm pretty sure SE is aware of their sales distribution of past titles and they know that the majority of their fan base is with PC/PS4. I bet they were hoping that making it a timed exclusive would push people to buy an XB1 for RoTR and/or were hoping that PC/PS4 owners won't be butt hurt when they finally do release it for those platforms. So far the first part hasn't turned out to be true as sales are no doubt below expectations. Based on sales data we have from the UK, US and France, I bet sales are still below the 700k mark for both XB1/X360 combined.

I highly doubt they're thinking "glad we took the MS deal" when sales are so low and they know that the large majority of the Definitive Edition sales were on PS4. I bet they're now thinking "I hope PC/PS4 can pick up the sales slack". If not, I'm with Scott and hope that this does not affect the future of the franchise as I feared it would when I first heard about the MS exclusivity deal. I predicted low XB sales a mile away. It would be sad, especially considering the reboot broke franchise sales records and was headed in a good direction, only to potentially fall because of a (IMO) very bad exclusivity deal.

I will admit that I am butt hurt that I have to wait around a year for this to come to PS4. As much as I want to support CD and the franchise for their great work, I also don't feel right paying full price for a year old game. If they launch on PS4 at a discounted price, I will be there day 1.


I'm willing to bet that RoTR had a considerably higher budget than JC3 or R6:S, and I bet sales expectations were higher because of that.

Im pretty sure they were well aware of all that before they signed the deal with MS. Taking the deal meant SE mitigating some of the risks and costs and allowing MS to absorb some that burden. So whatever low sales on the XB and 360, its not SE bearing the total brunt of that failure. The fact that they took the deal shows that SE weren't all that confident on the prospect of potential sales of TR. The prospect of this type of deal happening with COD, GTA or any franchise with stellar sales is about zero. The potential for those titles wouldn't warranted this type of deal. Exclusive marketing rights get sold all the time without any stipulation for delayed support for other platforms.

The 360 and ps3 had more active userbases in 2013 and hungry users ready to feed their next gen consoles in the xb1 and PS4. The 360 nor the PS3 in 2015 is as active as they were in 2013. R:TR is competing against Halo 5, FO4, Blops3, AC:S and SW:BF not a bunch of launch titles as TR released during January 2014, a few months after the console had launched.

Put it this way, if TR would have sold 8 millions on the xb1, you'd think SE would have been happy? That level of sales would have shown the deal with MS wouldn't have been warranted as MS's deal probably would have never amounted to the level of potential sales lost from not offering a PS4 or PC sku. And SE would contend with fact that staggered launches often hamper potential overall sales because delayed releases don't tend to have the same level of sales that stimultaneous releases offer.

And yes, they probably hope TR sales well on the PS4 and PC, it doesn't mean they regret the MS deal. This deal seemed to be a way for SE to hedge its bet on TR and given the low sales on the XB1 the deal probably served them well.

 

[djskribbles]

Im pretty sure they were well aware of all that before they signed the deal with MS. Taking the deal meant SE mitigating some of the risks and costs and allowing MS to absorb some of the risk as well as cost. So whatever low sales on the XB and 360, its not SE bearing the total brunt of that failure. The fact that they took the deal shows that SE weren't all that confident on the prospect of potential sales of TR. The prospect of this type of deal happening with COD, GTA or any franchise with stellar sales is about zero. The potential for those titles wouldn't warranted this type of deal.

I'm sure they had reasonable sales expectations being locked to basically one platform, but I doubt they were expecting the angry backlash to be this extreme, and for the sales to be THIS low. Like I said, I bet they were hoping it would push people to buy RoTR on XB1, and hope that PC/PS4 owners won't be butt hurt and buy the game any way when it does release on those platforms.

And just because they took the deal doesn't necessarily mean that they lacked confidence (which I doubt was the case considering the reboot had franchise record sales), but it could have been a big enough cheque that it seemed like a good deal at the time. I highly doubt they feel good about taking the deal now.

The 360 and ps3 had more active userbases in 2013 and hungry users ready to feed their next gen consoles in the xb1 and PS4. The 360 nor the PS3 in 2015 is as active as they were in 2013. R:TR is competing against Halo 5, FO4, Blops3, AC:S and SW:BF not a bunch of launch titles as TR released during January 2014, a few months after the console had launched.

The majority of TR sales were on PS3/X360 and that version launched on March 2013. TR 2013 was released in a slow sales month and had some stiff competition as well. Some notable titles that were released near TR's launch were: BioShock Infinite, MLB games, Crysis 3, Dead Space 3, Metal Gear Rising, Ninja Gaiden 3, Army of Two and Tiger Woods plus more. So yeah, not exactly an empty software release window.

The sales split of TR 2013 on last gen consoles was more even, but the sales split of the Definitive Edition should have told SE that a large majority of their fan base is on PS4 now.

Ultimately we will probably never know if this deal worked out for SE as we don't know the numbers. Personal feelings aside, I hate the deal because there's a good possibility that this deal will negatively affect the franchise due to poor sales. And because of that, I don't know how any fan of the franchise can support this deal, unless you truly feel that MS saved the game from being made, which I find HIGHLY unlikely.

 

[dobwal]

I'm sure they had reasonable sales expectations being locked to basically one platform, but I doubt they were expecting the angry backlash to be this extreme, and for the sales to be THIS low. Like I said, I bet they were hoping it would push people to buy RoTR on XB1, and hope that PC/PS4 owners won't be butt hurt and buy the game any way when it does release on those platforms.

Ultimately we will probably never know if this deal worked out for SE as we don't know the numbers. But regardless, I hate the deal, not only because I'm a butt hurt PS4 owner, but also because there's great potential that this deal will negatively affect the franchise due to poor sales.

And just because they took the deal doesn't necessarily mean that they lacked confidence, but it could have been a big enough cheque that it seemed like a good deal at the time. I highly doubt they feel good about taking the deal now.

The majority of TR sales were on PS3/X360 and that version launched on March 2013. TR 2013 was released in a slow sales month (March 2013) and had some stiff competition as well. Some notable titles that were released near TR's launch were: DmC, BioShock Infinite, MLB games, Crysis 3, Dead Space 3, Metal Gear Rising, Army of Two and Tiger Woods plus more. So yeah, not exactly an empty software release month.

The sales split of TR 2013 on last gen consoles was more even, but sales split of the Definitive Edition should have told SE that a large majority of their fan base is on PS4 now.

You might be right as there are so many unknowns. Yet I do remember SE stating that the 3.5 million that TR 2013 sold after a few months of release were below expectations for the game. And I doubt that TR 2015 would have done much to match those numbers given that 700k (your guessimate) on the xb1 would require a 5:1 ratio in favor on the PS4 to come close in another month or so.

The only similar deal I remotely remember from MS was the GTA DLC and that came with marketing dollars and a $50 million loan to be recoup through the sale of the DLC. MS and Rockstar seemed to have gotten away with that deal because I doubt many of us defined DLC to mean two complete games during that time.

So there is a possibility that MS fronted development dollars to be recouped through the sale of the game (MS is listed as the pub) and all SE has to do is pay for the port to the PS4 and provide some marketing dollars next holiday and still be profitable even if the game sells marginly better on the PS4.

A good game labelled super definitive edition priced at $40 and year to cool off (I think the low sales may have even tempered some of the anger) may all SE needs to profit comfortably on the deal.

 

[Scott_Arm]

There's no reason the deal would have been made without money changing hands.

Anyone that's angry about the deal is just a sad petty person.

 

[MrFox]

(getting off topic, because of the butthurting everywhere)

Timed exclusives aren't always paid directly. The huge amount of publicity, bundles, online storefront presence, trade show exposure, major unveiling at the manufacturer conference, and being called the megabomb of E3 (before they had to backtrack and say it was timed until january), that is a lot of publicity which the publisher won't have to make. Sports channels have had the TR ad running everywhere, with "exclusive xbox / holiday 2015". It's possible MS paid for those, for example, as distributor for xbox versions. They wouldn't if it was a simultaneous release, and these ads alone are worth millions.

I swear I can hear cheerful naive persons chanting in unison "Leave capitalism alone!" to sad petty persons.

 

[Phil]

There is nothing that says that a multiplatform TR would have return a profit. The sales on the XB1 shouldn't have been greatly impacted by the discontent of PS4 owners.

SE might be sitting back and going, "Whew, Im glad we took that MS deal because without it, we may have been looking at a big hole in our bottom line!!!"

I have no idea what kind of sales are required to turn a profit, but i'm willing to predict that if they had launched side by side, ps4 and xbone version, the sales would have easily been more than double. More likely triple (more tomb raider fans on playstation). Then throw in the PC sales and older gen (ps3) and we might be at 3.5 to 4 times the sales they have so far. That is my guess.

 

[London Geezer]

Yeah but what is the cost of developing for both new gen consoles, both old gen consoles, and PC?

 

[davetherave]

I'm sure it cost SE a pretty pound to develop the 2013 version for 5 consoles and PC and it looks like there may have been trouble doing the sequel at all if there wasn't some financial help (which came in the way of $$$ from MS), whether that was towards publishing it or just marketing it, it all helps out.

The problem here is that Tomb Raider as a franchise has historically being associated with PS, and the 2013 reboot sold significantly more on PS3 & PS4 compared to 360 & One. It just seems that since this deal was done, everything is went against a good sold release on the XBox platform.

We are seeing slowing sales on last generation software, while next gen (now current gen) software sales are going up, and added to that, the PS4 is skyrocketing compared to the XBOne. So Rise of the Tomb Raider is sitting in a pretty horrible place, especially considering when it was released. Hence the reason for slow and small sales. And eventually when this game is released for the PS, which is likely only gonna be the PS4, the sales will be quite small and will more than likely be attached to a lower asking price as well compared to the 2013 version of the game.

It has been a disaster of a decision which could see the franchise stopping again through bad management decisions. Shame on you SE and CD.

 

[Phil]

Does it really matter? They are doing it anyway? The only platform from those that I mentioned that is not confirmed, is the PS3 one, and given there is a X360 version, I can't believe the PS3 would be that impossible and at an immense cost to make.

 

[Billy Idol]

Finished the game yesterday!

The things I like:

- The graphics and tec are so great...awesome. The low resolution was very well masked. I am especially surprised about the temporal stability of the image...nice! During the whole campaign...only a few seconds total where aliasing issues were obvious.

- The gameplay is absolutely ace. So much variety in fighting styles. Perfect. Also the game has very good pacing...fighting, platforming, searching and collecting, puzzle solving...the game doesn't get boring throughout the whole campaign.

- The story is nice, nothing special but fits well to such a Iniana Jones type blockbuster!

- I really like the open world (light) aspect of the game: in some parts, you can do side missions. These don't have a particular story and are typically of the 'collect X amount of stuff' type. But, they still feel good and important as you not only get XP, but also important unique equipment for every single mission...thus they always feel important!

- The different tombs are cool, especially the hidden ones with there little puzzle. I like that the puzzles are often physics and real life base...they are often easy solvable due to the realism imo.

- The star of the show besides all the other great things: the rpg light leveling system! There are three 'skill trees'. Each tree has 3 levels. For each level to unlock, a certain amount of spent points is required. But here comes the clue: instead of having those level unlocks separatly for each skill, the number of points you spend count globally. Thus, ypu can spend all points in skill 1 level 1 and then directly jump to skill 3 level 2 if you want...giving you a great way of choosing really the skills you want! I really really like this system so much (e.g. W3 does it different). Furthermore: all skills you unlock have a real gameplay impact...no 2.3% stat increase mumbo jumbo bla bla. Great!

- I didn't clock the time exactly, but I estimate in between 15-20 hours for 90% completed. I really love those meaty single player campaign games!

- No single bug, glitch, crash whatsoever. Game is super polished!

- you can unlock explosive arrows for the bow...John Rambo style...aaaawwwesome! (Although the poison arrows are a bit stronger imo!)



Things I didn't like:

-hm...nothing I can think of right now?!?



Overall, this game is one of the best I played. Even better the the first game. Highly recommended if you like such type if games!

 

[Scott_Arm]

@Billy Idol The game is actually 1080p, except it's 1440x1080 in cutscenes. The aliasing that pops up is very odd. It's either lighting or certain material shaders that are low res and cause particular objects or surfaces to become heavily aliased. It's why you can walk through a cavern and it'll look nice and sharp, but there's a couple pieces of wood leaning against a wall that look like they're from the videogame in the 90s. Very odd. I'm not sure if I just started to tune it out, but I found as the game went on I didn't really notice it anymore.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Lara Croft visits Monkey Island. You should see the light dithering in Fallout 4, there's no way Rise is worse.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Lara Croft visits Monkey Island. You should see the light dithering in Fallout 4, there's no way Rise is worse.

In Rise of the Tomb Raider it's not dithering. You get horrible edge aliasing, but it'll be on a couple of items in a scene, not the whole thing. You'll be in a room with a pretty reasonable amount of aliasing for 1080p with whatever post-process AA they're using, but then you might have a wooden beam, or a metal bar leaning against a wall that has edge aliasing that looks like it's 640x480. Sometimes trees do the same thing in the forest areas, and sometimes they do not. It's really weird. Can't explain it.

 

[Clukos]

This?

 

[Scott_Arm]

I don't remember any of the outdoors scenes shimmering that much while I was playing, but maybe. It was more like you're going through a forest and you walk buy one tree that looks way fucked up compared to the rest, because it has crawling edges and the others don't. It's the equivalent of having a bright spotlight shining on the thing, because you can't look away.

 

[Clukos]

That's the worst case scenario obviously but the game has some problems with shimmering, maybe what you described is this:

Maybe their AO is to blame? Iirc they were using something in-house.

 

[Scott_Arm]

That is a good example of it

 

[London Geezer]

Looks like a shader aliasing fail, especially considering that everything around it looks perfect.

 

[AlNom]

Maybe their AO is to blame? Iirc they were using something in-house.

It's hard to pin-point. Not all parts with the AO are affected, so it could be a bug or it could be something related in the intermediate buffer chain. Lighting, fog, specular...

I'm not quite sure what sort of renderer they're using now. The previous game was mostly a variant of light pre-pass.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

That's the worst case scenario obviously but the game has some problems with shimmering, maybe what you described is this:

The antialising is completely borked there. The edges are transitioning to a brighter background that doesn't exist.