Rift, Vive, and Virtual Reality

[Ike Turner]

Oh look..so Oculus canceled the Rift 2 and now wants to simply release a "Windows MR like" version of the current Oculus Rift (integrated tracking, no more external cameras):

https://techcrunch.com/2018/10/31/a...plans-a-modest-update-to-flagship-vr-headset/

 

[cheapchips]

I think it makes sense not to up graphics requirements for a couple of years. Mainstream graphics haven't moved beyond 970 level in any meaningful way. Better to wait for 7nm cards are well established.

 

[Picao84]

It also makes sense to try and standardised/open VR on the desktop through WMR, in order to not have the current fragmentation between Oculus and Vive. Fragmentation and exclusives do not help to grow the market.

Pushing the technology envelope right away, when VR is still a small market, would not make sense. It's actually all in UX design theory, too many innovations at once can kill a product (Blackberry leaned that lesson the hard way with B10).

Any emerging market needs a flagship to grow and show consumers "the way". Let PSVR lead the way, even if it has some flaw, as it definitely the better designed (as a whole) consumer VR right now (for some reason it's selling way more than Oculus and Vive, despite the latter price drops). Confortable, Plug and Play, no game settings to adjust, no worry about FPS as Sony has a strong technical QA process in place.

This change of pace from Oculus does not show weakness, it shows wisdom.

 

[eastmen]

I think it makes sense not to up graphics requirements for a couple of years. Mainstream graphics haven't moved beyond 970 level in any meaningful way. Better to wait for 7nm cards are well established.

I think they will still move past the 970 as the base line. I don't believe this will simply be 1600x1440 per eye . I think it will go slightly above that and may include some anti sde stuff that Carmack talked about working on. I'm also not expecting this to hit until holiday 2019 with an announcement at the Facebook developer conference in mayish . I also hope they keep outside in tracking as well as adding the quest inside out tracking. WMR and the Quest both have tracking issues when you put your hands behind you for any length of time or down at your sides . Oculus shipping two new improved sensors with a wider / taller fov and higher resolution should mitigate those problems. Put them at opposite corners of a room and it should capture any blind spots

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I think they will still move past the 970 as the base line. I don't believe this will simply be 1600x1440 per eye . I think it will go slightly above that and may include some anti sde stuff that Carmack talked about working on. I'm also not expecting this to hit until holiday 2019 with an announcement at the Facebook developer conference in mayish . I also hope they keep outside in tracking as well as adding the quest inside out tracking. WMR and the Quest both have tracking issues when you put your hands behind you for any length of time or down at your sides . Oculus shipping two new improved sensors with a wider / taller fov and higher resolution should mitigate those problems. Put them at opposite corners of a room and it should capture any blind spots

If you want the most accurate head and controller tracking that is what you do.

If you want to broaden the market and make VR a lasting niche, then you want to go inside out without sensor towers (Rift) or light emitters (Vive). You want something that is easy for the consumer to use AND more importantly doesn't cost a lot to manufacture so you can reduce the price to draw in a larger audience.

If you continue to chase the 500-1000+ USD market with only cutting edge hardware, the niche is going to die.

Right now, Oculus is focusing on broadening the market if it is possible (it may not be possible) in order to try to make VR a lasting thing rather than yet another VR flash in the pan.

Samsung are pushing higher resolution optics because...well they make displays.

IMO, VR headsets still have a ways to go until they can reach critical mass.

• Need to have capable headsets under 200 USD, preferably in the 100-150 USD range.
• Need to have much wider FOV and higher resolution or imperceptible SDE.
• Need to have little to no setup required. Towers are a no go. Cameras (like PSVR) are a no go.
  • This means that it also has to have a wireless solution that is low latency enough that it doesn't cause its own problems.
• Something to deal with the massive resolution.
  • More powerful rendering hardware?
  • Rendering paradigm shift?
  • Foveated Rendering with eye tracking? Foveated rendering without eye tracking is horrible.
  • Something else?
• Better methods to deal with potential motion sickness or any other side effects that may arise from long VR sessions.
• Etc.

VR is hanging on, but it's certainly not thriving. It's good to see some developers still attempting to make that killer app that makes people other than VR enthusiasts want to invest in VR.

Regards,
SB

 

[eastmen]

wel that's the thing isn't it. The quest is the second way of going about things. You have that cheap helmet (its $400 without needing a power pc). However its tracking isn't perfect.

Samsung is pushing higher resolutions because that is a key to making vr main stream. I agree with you that you need a higher fov and almost no sde . Your not going to get that just sitting around doing nothing as cell phones have stopped increasing in resolution at this point as its just a waste of power.

What we do have a niche of gamers who want higher end vr experiences and this is where you can start to introduce new features that require higher price points to become fesiable. At some point down the line they will be come cheap enough to integrate into that mobile headset and the mobile headset will become powerful enough to run it.

So higher FOV , better lenses , higher resolution to me are what are really needed for vr to take off. In terms of tracking you would most likely be able to introduce a single usb powered sensor and a wireless sensor to assist in room scale tracking on the pc.

By the time quest 2 comes out it can now use the priced reduced lenses , higher res panels and other things added into the pc headset to make a new cheaper quest headset.

I don't mind spending $500-$600 every 3 years on a headset and while I don't think there are 10s of millions of others willing to do that , I think there are at least 10s of thousands if not hundreds of htousands willing to do that. And of course as those buy a rift 2 the price would continue to drop and will allow other more price sensitive to enter the market.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I don't mind spending $500-$600 every 3 years on a headset and while I don't think there are 10s of millions of others willing to do that , I think there are at least 10s of thousands if not hundreds of htousands willing to do that. And of course as those buy a rift 2 the price would continue to drop and will allow other more price sensitive to enter the market.

The big problem is that while some number of VR adopters are eagerly awaiting more games and more hardware, there's also some number of VR adopters who have lost their enthusiasm and become cynical and aren't planning on buying new hardware again until they see a "killer app" game. Heck, I know some people who were rabid VR fans at the launch of Rift, Vive, PSVR who don't even follow VR anymore because they were so disappointed with the support that VR got and the games (*cough* demos *cough* experiences) that were released.

It definitely not dead, as it still has ardent supporters as seen on this forum and in my RL experiences as well, but it certainly isn't thriving or doing well necessarily.

Regards,
SB

 

[xexuxjy]

As a not quite yet complete cynic on VR (though getting there....) I was really happy to see David Attenborough's 'Hold the World' VR experience released yesterday (http://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/news/2018/march/explore-the-museum-with-sir-david-attenborough.html) , saw it mentioned earlier this year and have been waiting for the full thing to arrive. Can never have enough enough Attenborough

 

[eastmen]

The big problem is that while some number of VR adopters are eagerly awaiting more games and more hardware, there's also some number of VR adopters who have lost their enthusiasm and become cynical and aren't planning on buying new hardware again until they see a "killer app" game. Heck, I know some people who were rabid VR fans at the launch of Rift, Vive, PSVR who don't even follow VR anymore because they were so disappointed with the support that VR got and the games (*cough* demos *cough* experiences) that were released.

It definitely not dead, as it still has ardent supporters as seen on this forum and in my RL experiences as well, but it certainly isn't thriving or doing well necessarily.

Regards,
SB

The problem is a killer app isn't a killer app for everyone. I spend most of my time in Rec room that's my killer app but I have no care in the world for echo arena and I know people who swear that's the killer app for VR. Its going to be decades before we get huge games that cost hundreds of millions made from the ground up for VR. Even if quest sells a million or two million units that is still tiny compared to console user base. Also if you design a modern 3d shooter like fortnite you can release it on top of the line pcs , consoles , tablets and phones with very little effort. It will be a very long time if ever till vr can command such a huge audience.

But at the same time even with a lack of a killer app. we can still move the hardware forward so when a killer app appears the hardware wont turn people off from the app.

 

[London Geezer]

Meh. As a PSVR owner. VR is kinda dead right now. Happy to be proven wrong.

 

[Tkumpathenurple]

IMO, VR headsets still have a ways to go until they can reach critical mass.

• Need to have capable headsets under 200 USD, preferably in the 100-150 USD range.

I agree with this above all else. With a PSVR kind of a set up, the headset needs to be the cost of a controller IMO.

• Need to have much wider FOV and higher resolution or imperceptible SDE.

For enthusiast headsets, I agree, but not for mass adoption. PSVR has an acceptable level of fidelity IMO, it just needs to be wireless.

• Need to have little to no setup required. Towers are a no go. Cameras (like PSVR) are a no go.
  

  • This means that it also has to have a wireless solution that is low latency enough that it doesn't cause its own problems.

I disagree here. Setting up the PlayStation camera takes about 12 seconds because you just position it above or below your TV, which also means there aren't wires trailing everywhere.

The camera could do with a wider FOV though, just to render it a little more forgiving, and require less maintenance.

This is an avenue which could also be developed for wireless headsets, given that every wireless solution I've seen requires line of sight.

• Something to deal with the massive resolution.
  

  • More powerful rendering hardware?
  • Rendering paradigm shift?
  • Foveated Rendering with eye tracking? Foveated rendering without eye tracking is horrible.
  • Something else?

I don't know how necessary that is. VR on the base PS4 is like spruced up PS3 fidelity. The next generation of consoles aren't going to struggle at all.

Proper foveated rendering will help though.

• Better methods to deal with potential motion sickness or any other side effects that may arise from long VR sessions.

Agreed. Or people could just stop being pussies ;P

 

[Picao84]

Meh. As a PSVR owner. VR is kinda dead right now. Happy to be proven wrong.

Well, I still use PSVR an average of three times a week. I barely play non-VR games nowadays. Just got to man up and finish RE7 + DLC recently lol. Have Robinsons Journey, Doom VFR and FFXV Monster of the Deep to go next. My list of future purchases include Apex Construct, Moss, Astrobot, Here they lie, maybe Firewall Zero Hour, Torn, Knockout League...

 

[cheapchips]

There are some images of Valve next headset prototype appearing, assuming they're not faked.

https://www.roadtovr.com/report-new-valve-vr-headset-appears-leaked-images/

I'd quite like Valve to be making a release version themselves. Steamlink and the steam controller are well considered bits of hardware.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

There are some images of Valve next headset prototype appearing, assuming they're not faked.

https://www.roadtovr.com/report-new-valve-vr-headset-appears-leaked-images/

I'd quite like Valve to be making a release version themselves. Steamlink and the steam controller are well considered bits of hardware.

Hopefully the speculation in that article about increased display size and greater FOV are true.

Regards,
SB

 

[eastmen]

Hopefully the speculation in that article about increased display size and greater FOV are true.

Regards,
SB

Yup , we need someone to push the hardware forward and it sadly might not be oculus anymore

 

[MfA]

If they ship it with a cable, they better ship it with a slip ring. Someone needs to do it right for once.

 

[manux]

Age of sail vr short film is pretty good. Free in steam/android/..., highly recommend spending 12minutes to watch it. It's also roomscale which gives a nice touch to the movie.

 

[xexuxjy]

That was rather good

 

[Arwin]

I must say that super hot VR and Beat saber are both really awesome. Just started playing these today ...

(Astro Bot PSVR is also amazing)

 

[manux]

Wrench is now in early access. I bought it and played a bit. Can't yet say if it's good or not but it looks damn amazing when graphics are turned to max. The engine, tires etc. look amazingly real even when looked like 1cm away. For reference my 1080ti seems to run max graphics great at least so far. I suspect I will love this "game" but I refrain from giving any score until I have more hours in it.

On early negative side, wrench would really benefit from haptic feedback. Also this game exposes some of the weaknesses present at least in oculus rift. There is some small text here and there and those are difficult but not impossible to read. Might be a matter of adjusting text rendering a bit and also for me to get used to the subpar readability of text. I didn't yet go through all settings, perhaps they have something for text rendering somewhere. I only maxed the quality.