Retro PS2 gaming on a CRT - PS2 vs PS3

Does anyone else still game on a CRT TV?

I'm looking revisiting some PS2 classics and can't decide to get an actual PS2 or try and get a PS3 and run them via BC.

I've not managed to find any articles online due to the age of the systems so does anyone have any words of wisdom and experience they can pass?

Does PS3 improve frame rates over actual PS2 hardware? Does it support 240p?

The console I go for will be connected via RGB scart to a 28" Phillips CRT.
 
I'm looking revisiting some PS2 classics and can't decide to get an actual PS2 or try and get a PS3 and run them via BC.

If your into some serious PS2 gaming, its a no brainer, get a real PS2, the fat one. Install a 1tb hdd using the network adaptor (can be found cheap from china aswell) and have your images on the hdd, launch everything with opl.
Components/RGB scart to a solid-ish widescreen crt and your set.

Does PS3 improve frame rates over actual PS2 hardware? Does it support 240p?

The PS2 using opl you can use different gsm/video modes to improve IQ somewhat, loading's generally faster using the hdd too. I wouldnt bother with a PS3 if your primary goal is classic, but somewhat improved PS2 gaming.
IF the PS3, get the 60gb version which has the entire PS2 chip in it. Im having fat PS2/PCSX2 for all retro ps2 gaming (though no crt anymore).
 
Ps2 slim also can load games from USB or ethernet. If you don't want to hunt for the OG ps2.

I no longer use crt but some ps2 titles looks amazing upscaled to 4k. There's zome of the enders 2....and.... I forgot...
 
Does anyone else still game on a CRT TV?
My general rule is CRT for anything PS2 and older. Xbox and GC generally look OK on more modern displays, but PS2 looks rougher. Plus, there aren't many lightgun games on Xbox and none on Gamecube. Some people rave about RGB or component on a CRT, and that looks great, but I would take PS2 vis composite on a CRT over using component on a flat panel. So if you can't get a crt with component, RGB, or SVideo, don't worry too much about it. It's still better than the alternative of playing it on a flat screen.

As for your other questions, I believe PS3 will output 240p via it's analog output just like a PS2 will. Framerates aren't enhanced by BC PS3s, and some of the later model ones (after they removed some of the BC hardware) actually had performance issues with some games. Also... Don't spend a bunch of money on a BC PS3. They brake all the time. If you find one cheap or one that has a warranty that's 1 year plus, then maybe. But in my experience they aren't worth the effort. If you do buy one, make sure you can test it. Make it play a PS3 game, not just a PS2 one (but test that too). And make sure it connects to the internet and try to do a system update, unless you intend on running old firmware forever. They do a system check when they try to update, so they will sometimes fail the update but can't revert to the previous working state. So they get stuck in an update loop that can only be fixed by solving the hardware problem. This includes issues with the bluray drive. That's why I said to test PS2 and PS3 games, because I've seen them before where they read PS2 games, but no PS3 or Bluray discs, and then they won't update and you have to replace the laser, or re-seat the ribbon cable that connects the drive to the motherboard. And that connector is fragile and breaks all the time. And that can cause the drive check to fail and cause an update loop. This doesn't even include issues like the YLOD.
 
Some people rave about RGB or component on a CRT, and that looks great, but I would take PS2 vis composite on a CRT over using component on a flat panel. So if you can't get a crt with component, RGB, or SVideo, don't worry too much about it. It's still better than the alternative of playing it on a flat screen.

I have a CRT with RGB input and the different between composite and RGB is like comparing the resolution between games on PS4 and PS4 Pro.

You can use the softmod to force 480p in many PS2 games as from what I've read a lot of them are handled internally at 480p anyway and for some reason the machine outputs 480i.

Even forcing 1080i output can make games look so much clearer.

PS2 with forced 480p on component looks just as good as Xbox and GC :D
 
My general rule is CRT for anything PS2 and older. Xbox and GC generally look OK on more modern displays, but PS2 looks rougher.
YMMV but there are some tremendous shaders for emulators that keep the look of CRTs while reducing some of the issues. When combined with a reserved upscaler you can play older games on more monitors and it just looks how you remember type game. Just less shite. Unless the lack of definition and blurry textures is the aim. :yep2:
 
PS2 with forced 480p on component looks just as good as Xbox and GC :D

Nah ;) Dont forget that the internal render resolution of ps2 games usually is lower, sometimes by alot. A forced 480p or higher resolution wont change that. Also to consider is the component out of the ps2 is of lower quality, the only output that matters for anything above 480p.

Besides resolution and output chip quality, ps2 games usually suffered from aliasing, field rendering or other such problems (mip mapping). All these factors wont help in aging of the games on a modern display.

If you really want to improve (try to) then pcsx2 could fix the internal render resolution, and often also output and other IQ improvements, even fps gains, but takes away the classic experience perhaps.
 
Nah ;) Dont forget that the internal render resolution of ps2 games usually is lower

Not that much lower and certainly not like the huge differences we can have in the current consoles.

It also matters less on a CRT to due to how they handle resolutions.

A forced 480p or higher resolution wont change that. Also to consider is the component out of the ps2 is of lower quality, the only output that matters for anything above 480p

It can make a HUGE difference..... Now I know it's not actual 1080p but the '1080p' mode doesn't suffer any of the combing artefacts that the 480i output suffers greatly with and is visibly sharper and cleaner then the 480i output.

Loads of games look much clearer and cleaner with the output resolution forced to a higher one.

Now it could be that the mod is removing a blur filter or line doubling, or even both.

But there is a genuine improvement to output clarity.
mH1Wnyc


Besides resolution and output chip quality, ps2 games usually suffered from aliasing, field rendering or other such problems (mip mapping).

All consoles from that generation suffered with aliasing issues, I'm playing games on OG Xbox via RGB and...tech jaggies are hurting my eyes.

All these factors wont help in aging of the games on a modern display

Good job I'm not playing on a modern display but the above tweaks I mentioned help

If you really want to improve (try to) then pcsx2 could fix the internal render resolution, and often also output and other IQ improvements, even fps gains, but takes away the classic experience perhaps.

Won't really work on a CRT TV though.
 
Not that much lower and certainly not like the huge differences we can have in the current consoles.

Im sure im misunderstanding things here, but the differences in IQ between PS2/XBOX/GC where substationally greater as compared to PS5/XSX. The XSS falls into another category, i think.
The difference between Xbox and PS2 imagine quality where very large, partly due to the reasons i mentioned in my other post.

It also matters less on a CRT to due to how they handle resolutions.

Absolutely, by all means the best way to go is a solid CRT and either scart or RGB, with the opl/gsm options to ouput to 480p whenever possible. The interal rendering resolution is something that cant ever be altered using real ps2 hardware.

It can make a HUGE difference..... Now I know it's not actual 1080p but the '1080p' mode doesn't suffer any of the combing artefacts that the 480i output suffers greatly with and is visibly sharper and cleaner then the 480i output.

Loads of games look much clearer and cleaner with the output resolution forced to a higher one.

Now it could be that the mod is removing a blur filter or line doubling, or even both.

But there is a genuine improvement to output clarity.

Oh ok, if that is direct hw ps2 capture thats indeed a nice improvement. Otherwise, the option to output at higher resolutions doesnt increase the actual render resolution of ps2 games, its a mere form of upscaling.

All consoles from that generation suffered with aliasing issues, I'm playing games on OG Xbox via RGB and...tech jaggies are hurting my eyes.

They do. But the PS2 was the worst of them, by a long-shot. It wasnt just the lack of AA, it was the lower internal render resolution, the broken mipmap implementation inherent to the PS2, the often-used field rendering/shimmer, and the component output chip wasnt up to par either with the xbox.
Not forgetting that colours where somewhat limited on the PS2 aswell, compare any multiplat game on both consoles side by side, and more often than not, the PS2 versions lack some colour saturation (try SSX3, TF future perfect etc etc). Also worse framerate/tearing on that console.

I'd say that, for games that were multiplat, go with the xbox versions if you have that in your retro setup. The PS2 shines for its exclusives that never made it anywhere else, which are MANY. It were the days where they had many true exclusives, which played to the PS2's strengths to circumvent the above mentioned problems somewhat.
That and artwork is what keeps many games from being an eye-sore.
Equally, games that played to the GC's and Xbox's strengths did some true magic. Yes, even on the GC (rouge leader 3).

Good job I'm not playing on a modern display but the above tweaks I mentioned help

Yeah agree, generally not a good idea to play these old machines on a 65'' oled as it really shows the weaknesses.

Won't really work on a CRT TV though.

Not above the max resolution no, but you can still interally render at 480p and apply all the mipmap, aliasing and fps fixes and improvements, aswell as filters and loading times.
Then there did exist high definition CRT TV's, aside from being able to connect to a high quality CRT monitor, which does some true magic even in todays games.
 
I have a CRT with RGB input and the different between composite and RGB is like comparing the resolution between games on PS4 and PS4 Pro.
I don't disagree, but I would still take composite on a CRT over component on an LCD when playing PS2 games.

PS2 with forced 480p on component looks just as good as Xbox and GC
I don't know, the lack of mip maps and often lower quality textures combined don't really hold up in most games. I mostly use my PS2 for lightgun games, and woof... I love Time Crisis but there are unfiltered textures all over in those games. Same thing with Resident Evil Dead Aim. The hair on the main villain is unfiltered but other textures are. It's jarring visually because most of the textures everywhere else are filtered. GC and Xbox games don't have this type of visual inconsistency. I can't think on any games on GC or Xbox that have unfiltered textures.
 
I don't know, the lack of mip maps and often lower quality textures combined don't really hold up in most games. I mostly use my PS2 for lightgun games, and woof... I love Time Crisis but there are unfiltered textures all over in those games. Same thing with Resident Evil Dead Aim. The hair on the main villain is unfiltered but other textures are. It's jarring visually because most of the textures everywhere else are filtered. GC and Xbox games don't have this type of visual inconsistency. I can't think on any games on GC or Xbox that have unfiltered textures.

Now I personally love the look of PS2 games over GC and Xbox, because of the lack of mips the games more often look sharper on a CRT via RGB then GC or Xbox games do.

And my CRT is 100hz so trying to a light gun that works reliably is tough.
 
Now I personally love the look of PS2 games over GC and Xbox, because of the lack of mips the games more often look sharper on a CRT via RGB then GC or Xbox games do.

And my CRT is 100hz so trying to a light gun that works reliably is tough.
I used to have a 1080i Sony Trinitron CRT and it looked great but lightguns wouldn't work right on it. It was a real bummer because the TV was big and looked great.
 
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...Uhd7sk88uChuEHuuk_JPhzEC3camWPZSjUOogR-X6kl_0

Remembering Metal Gear Solid 2 as it turns 20 years old

Didnt know exactly where to put it, anyway fits the topic. MGS2 first E3 trailer blew everyone away, and its following launch made true what was promised. Still remember the first time booting the game on my launch oct 2000 ps2. That game and SSX were really jaw dropping at their time, remember thinking how thats possible coming from that little black box under the tv.
 
I used to have a 1080i Sony Trinitron CRT and it looked great but lightguns wouldn't work right on it. It was a real bummer because the TV was big and looked great.
Yeah, some CRTs got creative with their videobeam gun tech to increase resolution and/or frequency. Lightguns were designed to recognise one beam at a narrow range of frequencies and when you think about the latencies involved it was kind of amazing they worked at all.

I do my miss blue Namco gun controller for early PlayStations.
 
Yeah, some CRTs got creative with their videobeam gun tech to increase resolution and/or frequency. Lightguns were designed to recognise one beam at a narrow range of frequencies and when you think about the latencies involved it was kind of amazing they worked at all.

I do my miss blue Namco gun controller for early PlayStations.
I don't have a blue Guncon. I've got grey, orange and black I think for Guncon 1, but I can't remember if I've seen a blue one before. Was it a regional variant? My black one is Japanese because the US has strict laws about selling toy guns that aren't brightly colored and marked as toys.
 
I don't have a blue Guncon. I've got grey, orange and black I think for Guncon 1, but I can't remember if I've seen a blue one before. Was it a regional variant?
No idea, it was what they sold in the UK. We didn't, and still don't, have much gun crime here so they may be less rules about what colour light guns were.
 
Just to update everyone;

I managed to get a PS2 with a 1Tb HDD with 295 games installed (A few classics missing like MGS2 but over all a very very good game collection) and all the cables.

And what's even more shocking is the warranty sticker is still in one piece!!

I'll strip it down and give it a clean as it's dirty and order a horizontal stand for it as I love that look.

I might look at the changing the fan too as god damn it's loud!
 
Just to update everyone;

I managed to get a PS2 with a 1Tb HDD with 295 games installed (A few classics missing like MGS2 but over all a very very good game collection) and all the cables.

And what's even more shocking is the warranty sticker is still in one piece!!

I'll strip it down and give it a clean as it's dirty and order a horizontal stand for it as I love that look.

I might look at the changing the fan too as god damn it's loud!

Nice man ;) You have one of the first models (pre-2003) like my fat ps2's they are abit louder. Its worth it take it apart (either 10 or 8 screws depending on model), and dust them out. The power supply part sits ontop of where the CPU/GPU etc is, sandwitched, and dust could have clogged up there.
Atleast you know its not messed with, its done with softmod (fmbc using memory card/hdd). Dont forget to update to latest opl as there have been alot of improvements for reading from hard disks. An example is half life no background sounds or music would play when running from hdd, but the later versions of opl fixed that. Many other fixes and even improved loading.
Maybe make a backup of fmbc (if you have that), i have a memcard with fmbc (multiinstall, works on all ps2 models). just pop in a random ps2 and work :p

Have fun, nothing beats the true classic machine on a classic screen. If ZoE2 second runner is there, give it a go, still impressive.
 
Nice man ;) You have one of the first models (pre-2003) like my fat ps2's they are abit louder. Its worth it take it apart (either 10 or 8 screws depending on model), and dust them out. The power supply part sits ontop of where the CPU/GPU etc is, sandwitched, and dust could have clogged up there.
Atleast you know its not messed with, its done with softmod (fmbc using memory card/hdd). Dont forget to update to latest opl as there have been alot of improvements for reading from hard disks. An example is half life no background sounds or music would play when running from hdd, but the later versions of opl fixed that. Many other fixes and even improved loading.
Maybe make a backup of fmbc (if you have that), i have a memcard with fmbc (multiinstall, works on all ps2 models). just pop in a random ps2 and work :p

Have fun, nothing beats the true classic machine on a classic screen. If ZoE2 second runner is there, give it a go, still impressive.

I've took them apart before, crazy how it's still going (and reading PS2 dicks still)

ZOE2 is there.......... collection is weird, DMC3 is there but there's no DMC or DMC 2.

And there's some crap games on there that'll just remove, also games that I have on my soft modded Xbox (And I know run loads better on the Xbox) that I might also remove.

I have one more shelf slot space for a slot loading console and not sure what to get, thinking of a modded Wii to play GC and N64 games.
 
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