Question about shimmering, jittering, combing with some ps3 games.....

[pctek]

Ok heres what I have a Sony CRT HDTV Widescreen 30 inch kv-30hs420 and Supposely it does 480i, 480p, and 1080i, I heard these crt tv's dont do 720p. Ok I have a ps3 60gig connected via hdmi running at 1080i.

The issue is on some ps3 demos and the full game of uncharted and some ps2 games i have, what I see is I beleive its called combing and or interlacing artifacts. When this happens is when moving the camera/screen left and right (Horizontaly) I see still images ingame like a rock, tree, car, etc get out of focus, shimmering, combing, fuzzy, jitter, vibrate, shake, I say all those words i;m trying to describe best I can.

Quickly thinking here ps3 games that have this is: Resistance fall of man, folklore, dirt, uncharted full game and demo, Motorstorm, heavenly sword, nhl 08, full auto 2, virtual tennis 3, timeshift etc.

ps2 games that i have do this are: code veronica, metal gear snake eater, hitman 2, devil maycry 1 etc.

But theres some games that are smooth no issues like ps3: ninja gaiden sigma, call of duty 4, ridge racer 7, rachet clank, etc.

Ps2 games that dont have this are: god of war 1 and 2, castlevania lament, virtula fighter 4 evo.

Any know whay is this happening thanks?

 

[Blade47167]

Well your not playing Resistance, Folklore, Dirt, Motorstorm, or Heavenly Sword in 1080i. They downscale to 480p. However I'm pretty sure Full Auto and Virtual Tennis are capable of 1080k output. I can't comment on NHL 08 or Timeshift. Is it some kinda of lag maybe like ghosting? Hmm and the games you mention that it doesn't happen are all at 60FPs on the PS3. I don't relaly know enough about your TV tho. But this may help break it down some.

 

[pctek]

Well your not playing Resistance, Folklore, Dirt, Motorstorm, or Heavenly Sword in 1080i. They downscale to 480p. However I'm pretty sure Full Auto and Virtual Tennis are capable of 1080k output. I can't comment on NHL 08 or Timeshift. Is it some kinda of lag maybe like ghosting? Hmm and the games you mention that it doesn't happen are all at 60FPs on the PS3. I don't relaly know enough about your TV tho. But this may help break it down some.

Well true those games Resistance, Folklore, Dirt, Motorstorm, or Heavenly Sword dont do 1080i, they are natively support 720p right? Ok but whats wierd is I heard my tv doesnt support 720p, but if i go into the service menu of my sony tv "the service menu is a advanced menu where you can adjust picture and geometry settings" then load up one of these 720p games, the service menu actually says its running at 720p. From reading around the internet i got mixed things.

One thing I heard is the old firmwares of the ps3 downscaled I believe to 480p, but i think it was ps1/ps2 games but I dont know about if it also downscaled ps3 games that if the tv was set to a different reslotion than the game being loaded.

I also heard that with the new ps3 firmware sony included upscalling if you want to enable that but looks like its for ps1/ps2 games.

But another wierd thing is ninja gadien runs at 720p but it doesnt have that interlacing/combing/shimmering issue.

Now you say these games run at 60fps, what does this supose to mean or do? Do the other games run at 30fps or what?

I forgot about full auto but tennis 3 does have that shimmering also even though it runs at 1080i.

So since tennis 3 runs at 1080i a video mode my tv supports rather than upscaling or downscaling it, does this tell us that its dependant of the actual software/game running? Is it the makers of the game doing someting to cause this or what?

Thanks....

 

[pctek]

Well your not playing Resistance, Folklore, Dirt, Motorstorm, or Heavenly Sword in 1080i. They downscale to 480p. However I'm pretty sure Full Auto and Virtual Tennis are capable of 1080k output. I can't comment on NHL 08 or Timeshift. Is it some kinda of lag maybe like ghosting? Hmm and the games you mention that it doesn't happen are all at 60FPs on the PS3. I don't relaly know enough about your TV tho. But this may help break it down some.

Do you or anyone here reading this have a ps3 that has hdmi or componment hookup test for yourselfs please? I been trying to get a answer for months now to why this is going on.

 

[SonComet]

You are having the console output 720p on those games and letting your TV scale it right? I know for a fact that your TV will accept and scale 720p to 1080i and it most likely does a much better job than the PS3. I've never noticed those artifacts on a 32HS420 or a 40XBR800, but maybe I'm just not looking for them. However, I just play most of my games on my monitor though since then I don't have to fight for a TV; so I don't have in depth experience playing on those sets. Also, I just have the PS3 output 720p for all games and let either TV scale it if I happen to have the PS3 in those rooms.

 

[pctek]

You are having the console output 720p on those games and letting your TV scale it right? I know for a fact that your TV will accept and scale 720p to 1080i and it most likely does a much better job than the PS3. I've never noticed those artifacts on a 32HS420 or a 40XBR800, but maybe I'm just not looking for them. However, I just play most of my games on my monitor though since then I don't have to fight for a TV; so I don't have in depth experience playing on those sets. Also, I just have the PS3 output 720p for all games and let either TV scale it if I happen to have the PS3 in those rooms.

No the console is setup to 1080i, but I think just a while ago I setup the ps3 to 720p but those games still had the interlacing issue. I'll try again in a few...

You might not be trained to look for the issue because after you try playing a ps2 console on a hdtv lcd or regular lcd monitor liek the gateway fd2275w monitors like I have in the past. The ps2 looks like crap on those displays, you see the combing lines artifacts more severly than a crt display, also the whole screen vibrates/jitter.... basically to make a long story short once you see those artifacts its hard not to pay attention to them now for me.

 

[pctek]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkchurch
Question: What resolution are you running these games in? 720p or 1080i? If the only games that do it are the ones you're running in 1080i then try running the games in 720p. Everything you describe sounds like screen jitter common with interlaced games. I saw it in many of my old PS2 games on my old CRT and see it now when I play PS2 games on my Sharp Aqous.

Gosh man I just dont get it, so are the games that do the interlacing artifacts, are they interlaced games or something? You ask me what resolution i'm running the games at! Well I have the ps3 setup at 1080i and still have the checkmark enabled for 480p and 720p. So when I load up a game that has a interlace issue like uncharted, well according to my tv its running at 720p.

Ok now I heard that my doesnt naturaly support 720p, it will upconvert it to 1080i, but the display info says 720p it doesnt say 1080i. But by the looks of it looks like it is converting it to 1080i becuase when i load up a 720p game I see the modes changing within tv. But if i load up a 1080i game call of duty 4 it has a seamless smooth non changing up resolution modes becuase the "game" "tv" and "ps3" console are all running at 1080i.

1. So what i'm trying to determine is are all these games interlaced games and it will show the issues we're talking about here no matter what display you have!

2. Or do I need to get a display that natively supports 720p unlike my sony crt, to not have these issues! If this is the answer then why out of all the 5 lcd's hdtv's I had recently had these same issues going on? Even The last lcd display was a 800 dollar sharp aquous 32 inch that did 720p and 1080i did the same thing.

I would think that running a game that does 720p on a display that does 720p natively wont have these issues, but i'm pretty sure all the displays had this thats why i returned them i couldnt ignore the issues to enjoy the games.

The ps3 kiosk stations at the stores for you to play demos of the ps3, do the same thing i'm describing here, and they run those sony bravias lcd's.

The reason i'm bothered and looking for these artifacts because about a year ago i had a slim ps2 and bought a lcd hdtvs and regular lcd displays like the gateway fd-2275 that has multiple inputs and by running the ps2 it looked awful I saw combing/interlacing issue etc. So now my brain is trained to look for these and once you see them they start to bother you.

Can somone please with a ps3 and some type of hdtv load up some demos and see if you see this! All you do is pretty much stand still and pan the camera left and right "Horizontaly" and while doing so look and stare a still objects in the game/background etc and you will see the image get like double, out of focus, non clear still image, shake, etc. Thanks...

 

[Jov]

... The issue is on some ps3 demos and the full game of uncharted and some ps2 games i have, what I see is I beleive its called combing and or interlacing artifacts. When this happens is when moving the camera/screen left and right (Horizontaly) I see still images ingame like a rock, tree, car, etc get out of focus, shimmering, combing, fuzzy, jitter, vibrate, shake, I say all those words i;m trying to describe best I can.
....

I can't explain why some games seems more stable than others, but when you're panning, nothing is 100% in focus, and depending on the game & display update the object might be more solid. 30fps games will like exhibit less of this issue on older displays, where as 60fps games will have more juddering due to the quicker movement on older or less capable displays (or incorrect settings).

Juttering, fuzziness, etc.. happens sometimes due to the camera movement implementation, and are much more apparent on PC monitors and LCD TVs due to their sharper image/display.

All the above are probably made worse due to interlacing, either at the game or the display level, as interlaced images will seem shaky compared to progressive scan outputs.

If you have a game running native at 720p and your display can output 720p, then that would be the best result, same goes for 1080p. Basically sticking with native resolution thru then entire display pipeline.

That said some LCD or Plasmas TVs have very good scaling capability when playing 720p games on a 1080p display will still produce a very good IQ.

 

[Hazuki Ryu]

I'm actually playing uncharted demo right now on a 32" LG lcd at 1080i, i have tested at 720p too i like more the 720p mode on uncharted because its it's native resolution and upscaling to 1080i makes it worse, i don't see any big issues with the 1080i mode though.

Are you sure you are not confusing framerate with something else?
Because COD 4 is supposed to be 60 fps on the ps3 (at least for most of the time)

 

[vazel]

Yikes, this person has been making threads about this on forums for like a month...

But from everything I've read this person say about this issue on all the threads he's made it seems he's just noticing the judder/motion blur from a 30 and below framerate(he games on a CRT so it's not a slow response time from LCD). Why he's so bothered and fixated on this is another matter...