R520 benchmarks - Hardware Analysis

[Kombatant]

Personal conflict is not our concern.

With all due respect, this is not a correspondence between two friends. This is a business correspondence between the head of a website publication and a ATI representative. How is that "personal" and "private"? I really don't understand your line of reasoning.

 

[martrox]

I'm on the thank you train also Andrzej ....BTW, this has been more entertaining than Desperate Housewives.......but not nearly as good looking!

 

[CJ]

Personal conflict is not our concern.

Partially true. Imo personal conflict wasn't our concern until HWA decided to publicize their little ATi rant while also slandering other websites for supposedly being pro-ATi. Had the article been given 'as is' without any of his personal grudges against ATi then you would have had every reason to be upset. When SS publicized the article (especially the previous unedited version) he brought his personal vendetta into our homes, thus making it public.

Btw, nice response from Andrzej eventhough I didn't think it was really necessary. If R520XT really is faster than the GF7800GTX we would've noticed it soon enough anyway.

 

[Regeneration]

With all due respect, this is not a correspondence between two friends. This is a business correspondence between the head of a website publication and a ATI representative. How is that "personal" and "private"? I really don't understand your line of reasoning.

Attorney supposes to handle case like these. Flame war is not the solution and it’s not proper.
Why the public has to see ten page flame thread in the headlines? Where are your manners?

 

[Kombatant]

Attorney supposes to handle case like these. Flame war is not the solution and it’s not proper.
Why the public has to see ten page flame thread in the headlines? Where are your manners?

Ok, let me get this straight. The only thing I saw ATI doing was to give permission to DH to publish those emails, and two statements (Guru3D and Rage3D) that said that the results were not true (apart from today's statement by Andrzej, of course). The "ten page flame thread" thing was made by people not directly involved in this (except Sander, of course, even though I don't remember him flaming anyone, but anyway).

Now if you explain to me how ATI or Sander was involved in this 10 page flame thread, or how this has anything to do with manners, I will finally understand what you mean Just because they had a dispute, that triggered such strong reactions, doesn't mean that THEY are to blame. The people that did the flaming are to blame for the flaming.

(I am sure I would've phrased this much better if it weren't 1am in here, so sorry in advance)

 

[Regeneration]

The only thing I saw ATI doing was to give permission to DH to publish those emails, and two statements (Guru3D and Rage3D) that said that the results were not true (apart from today's statement by Andrzej, of course). The "ten page flame thread" thing was made by people not directly involved in this (except Sander, of course, even though I don't remember him flaming anyone, but anyway).

That's enough wood for the flame.

 

[digitalwanderer]

That's enough wood for the flame.

They're soooo cute when they keep arguing after they've lost.

 

[Kombatant]

That's enough wood for the flame.

So it's not the flame that's at fault, it's the damn wood that's flammable

 

[Geo]

That's enough wood for the flame.

"I gave them a sword" --Richard M. Nixon. You don't get to build the pyre and hand them a match, then complain about the results.

 

[Firefox]

Andrzej,

Thank you for posting this. We now finally have a clear official statement on the matter, and some reasonable explanation directly from ATi. I would however have liked you or any other ATi rep to come out with this before everything went utterly out of control like it has.
By directing incomplete and even questionable information to clearly biased sites like e.g. Driverheaven in stead of coming out in the open like you did now, I think ATi made matters worse than they aready were - throwing oil on the fire.
I do have to say I'm not completely convinced you (ATi PR) actually were prepared for Sander doing this, because I regard the first resposes from Chris as panicking... claiming that there was no X1800 hardware out there and that the benches were conducted on an overclocked X850, disclosing some incomplete (thus out of context) email threads, and by doing that being partially responsable for starting a smearing campaign on Sander via Driverheaven. I would very much preferred ATi to come out in the open professionally - like you did now - immediately. And if something like this ever happens again I hope we will see the same kind of professional response.
As things stand now, I am much more inclined to accept your side of the story for reliable than Sanders, unless he discloses new information we haven't heard already.

Then again, we will see everything in a few weeks from now... so lets start the countdown with a clean sheet
Maybe I'll then have to deside to trade my new 7800GTX TOP (upgrade from X850XT PE) for the new ATi X1800XT... if it delivers as you promised, I'll be sure to stick with my habit of buying every ATi topmodel since the first Radeon came out

Anyway, thanks again for clearing this up

 

[Big Bertha EA]

They're soooo cute when they keep arguing after they've lost.

Freaking amazin', ain't it?

 

[digitalwanderer]

I would however have liked you or any other ATi rep to come out with this before everything went utterly out of control like it has.
By directing incomplete and even questionable information to clearly biased sites like e.g. Driverheaven in stead of coming out in the open like you did now, I think ATi made matters worse than they aready were - throwing oil on the fire.

Ok, I still haven't seen it go "out of control" anywhere and I thought ATi did fine getting the word out about what the what was.

How do you think that made things worse than a totally phony and intentionally skewed "preview" done out of spite?

 

[Tim Murray]

How do you think that made things worse than a totally phony and intentionally skewed "preview" done out of spite?

You realize it was labelled a review, right?

 

[digitalwanderer]

You realize it was labelled a review, right?

No, I didn't figure anyone would be that stupid.

 

[Firefox]

Ok, I still haven't seen it go "out of control" anywhere and I thought ATi did fine getting the word out about what the what was.

Well, I can point on the 8 pages of heated discussion behind us in this thread, let alone what went missing in the failed split. We could have saved ourselfs quite a lot of time if this post from Andrzej had been on page one in stead of page seven

Besides, if you'd check the equivalent of this topic on Driverheaven, you can see some real out of control there... out of control raging f..b..s that is

How do you think that made things worse than a totally phony and intentionally skewed "preview" done out of spite?

Lets keep in mind that there are still two sides to this - both claiming to be right, and both seeming convinced that they actually are. Besides Andrzej already mentioned that he considers Sander smarter then to simply make something up like this...

I personally see 4 possibilities here:
1. Sander lied, and didn't care that he'd destroy his reputation on a global scale, and that he and his site would be called unreliable for the rest of his days as a hardwarereviewer (not likely i.m.o... seeing his posts here I don't think he would be that stupit)
2. Sander was set up, by his source, or maybe his sources superiors who found out about the experiment (possible)
3. The benches were run on pre-production R520 hardware with pre-production drivers, so they don't reflect the hardware to be released soon (also possible)
4. His figures are quite correct, or maybe just for Pro and XL (not too likely in considering the claims Andrzej made about the performance of R520)

Which one is it? You tell me... but I think your guess here is as good as mine, so we'll all have to wait and see

 

[Tim Murray]

I don't think 3 and 4 qualify as guesses, considering there's evidence to the contrary on both.

 

[digitalwanderer]

Which one is it? You tell me

1. Sander lied, and didn't care that he'd destroy his reputation on a global scale, and that he and his site would be called unreliable for the rest of his days as a hardwarereviewer

Any other questions?

 

[Geo]

And the problem with #2 is all the other factors that go with it, so that Sander has still done this to himself. I mean the 'tude in his narrative and the malice expressed in advance and the complete unreproducibility of the results and testing methodology. Caboosemoose said it way back when. There is not one factor here that puts Sander in an impossible position _even if you think #2 is what happened_. . .like any great tragedy there are three, four, five factors (all of his own making) that leave him sinking like Titanic. And just as surprised that his Unsinkable Ship is just about to go down.

 

[digitalwanderer]

The one problem I have with that is what in the world made Sassen think he could get away with this or think it would be a good thing for him and his site?

Unless he was counting on ATi not coming forward with those e-mails he sent, in which case I just gots to laugh harder.

BTW-Has anyone heard anything from Sassen since Andrzej posted up?

 

[Headstone]

Andrzej,



I do have to say I'm not completely convinced you (ATi PR) actually were prepared for Sander doing this, because I regard the first resposes from Chris as panicking... claiming that there was no X1800 hardware out there and that the benches were conducted on an overclocked X850, disclosing some incomplete (thus out of context) email threads, and by doing that being partially responsable for starting a smearing campaign on Sander via Driverheaven. I would very much preferred ATi to come out in the open professionally - like you did now - immediately. And if something like this ever happens again I hope we will see the same kind of professional response.
As things stand now, I am much more inclined to accept your side of the story for reliable than Sanders, unless he discloses new information we haven't heard already.

This is quite possible really. Remember that Andrzej (I assume) works more in the PR division whereas Orton is the big cheese. Now how many of you see the big boss day in and day out? I dont. Though I did chat with mine last week . But anyways, PR departments will most certainly prepare for such circumstances and probably many more such as where the results would be truely lower, and thus need to be justified.