R480 - Can we expect SM3.0?

[Unknown Soldier]

Ok so the next rumoured ATI release is the R480(or am I wrong?) I'm hoping it has SM3.0 support or else ATI might as well not release it at all.

They have to release a SM3.0 product to compete with Nvidia's SM3.0 part.

When can we expect this new part to be released? It's already august. September maybe?

US

 

[ET]

Ok so the next rumoured ATI release is the R480(or am I wrong?) I'm hoping it has SM3.0 support or else ATI might as well not release it at all.

They have to release a SM3.0 product to compete with Nvidia's SM3.0 part.

They'll release one eventually (that is, next year), but they don't have to release one now. All they have to do is keep up with NVIDIA performance (and preferably beat it). There's still no game that shows any convincing advantage of SM 3.0.

The update releases have traditionally added just minor features, so this might be the case with the 480, too. (And I imagine that people who follow discussions and rumours of future hardware better than I do will be able to give you a better answer.)

 

[DegustatoR]

No SM3 for ATI till R5x0 AFAIK.

 

[AlNom]

how big of a speed bump could we expect from the R480? 600Mhz Core?

 

[Ailuros]

how big of a speed bump could we expect from the R480? 600Mhz Core?

Isn't that somewhat related as to what exactly (higher speced) GDDR3 ram will be available by then?

Historically each refresh during the R3xx era meant an ~50MHz core frequency increase. Naturally not a point to judge anything by, since it was a different manufacturing process first above all.

 

[AlNom]

550Core for refresh doesn't seem too big of a jump... but then I guess it's like a 60Mhz jump in last gen terms. (8x1 vs 16x1 pixel pipes)

Isn't that somewhat related as to what exactly (higher speced) GDDR3 ram will be available by then?

is there a thread discussing this already?

 

[nAo]

what about 20 pipelines?

 

[jvd]

x880 xt will be 600/600 and will come out in novemeber.


We wont see a sm 3.0 part from ati will 90nm

 

[Hellbinder]

what about 20 pipelines?

How about 24 pipelines

 

[Unknown Soldier]

How big of a change would it have been to add/increase a few more instructions into the chip? Surely by adding more pipes(to even 20-24) it will cause a redesign of the chip in a small way. So why can't ATI release a SM3.0 part?

What can ATI do to release a part that's better than the 6800 Ultra. At the moment with DirectX 9.0c and games starting to be released with SM3.0 it's starting to look better and better for Nvidia.

Even if ATI do just speed bump the X800 to X880, I don't think it'll be enough to try to stay ahead of the competition. They really do need to bring out a SM3.0 part ASAP.

US

 

[hovz]

x880 xt will be 600/600 and will come out in novemeber.


We wont see a sm 3.0 part from ati will 90nm

completely useless. the xt pe is memory bandwidth limited rly badly as it is. and they only bump up the memory 40 mhz.

thats if what u say is true.

 

[ninelven]

edited

 

[DegustatoR]

how big of a speed bump could we expect from the R480? 600Mhz Core?

Depends on yields, TSMC 0,13 low-k maturing, timeframe of release, projected price range, what's NV's gonna offer in NV48 and apparently on a weather in Canada.

Final clocks is something decided in a week before an announcment. Thought everybody knows this already...

I'm not sure they should up the clocks much. To me it looks like they'd better think about R420 efficiency compared to NV40.

 

[DegustatoR]

So why can't ATI release a SM3.0 part?

B/c it'll most probably be SLOWER in general than R420 if it would be made on the same 0.13 low-k process. Transistor increase b/c of SM3 and added FP32 ALUs would eat most of current R420 clock speed lead.

So no SM3 for ATI till 2005 and 0.09 (or at least 0.11 low-k).

 

[Dave Baumann]

It's more a function of die size than speed - there isn't necessarily anything to say that the sames speeds can't be achieved with a larger die (although Ultra style cooling would be almost certainly be required); however from a die size cost perspective ATI didn't view it as favourable.

 

[jvd]

x880 xt will be 600/600 and will come out in novemeber.


We wont see a sm 3.0 part from ati will 90nm

completely useless. the xt pe is memory bandwidth limited rly badly as it is. and they only bump up the memory 40 mhz.

thats if what u say is true.

not in shader limited areas .


With stock cooling i can run at 620 / 580 just fine (my ram gives out quickly)

So i will expect (and am hearing though my sources suck) that they will put out the refresh around 600mhz .

Yes it will still be bandwidth limited but it will lessen the shader limitations and keep it ahead of the 6800s in that regard as i'm told the 6800 refresh will top out around 480mhz

 

[Ailuros]

Ram availability should be a concern for both IHVs.

Assume that a NV4x refresh will be truly clocked at 480MHz as jvd says, then I'd guess that it'll need 650-660MHz GDDR3 in order to keep the same fill-rate to bandwidth efficiency as with the NV40.

Considering though how expensive and rare today's high end models still are, I personally expect rather conservative clockspeed increases like last year. I have my eyes fixed on X800PRO/6800GT follow-up models anyway; anything higher than 400-450$ is overkill for my taste.

 

[Joe DeFuria]

I'm probably going to wait for the first 16 pipe, 256 bit board to hit the sub $300 street price, and consider upgrading my 9800...

SM 3.0 itself is not a concern to me, but either R4xx or NV4x architecture is just fine. I'd prefer a R42xx at this point for power consumption / heat reasons.

 

[AlNom]

Depends on yields, TSMC 0,13 low-k maturing, timeframe of release, projected price range, what's NV's gonna offer in NV48 and apparently on a weather in Canada.

Final clocks is something decided in a week before an announcment. Thought everybody knows this already...

I'm not sure they should up the clocks much. To me it looks like they'd better think about R420 efficiency compared to NV40.

Actually, no, I didn't know about the final clocks decision.

What exactly is hindering R420 efficiency :? I never understood why the X800XT was performing on par or just ahead of the 6800U or 6800UE when it has a considerable clockspeed advantage.

If it's just memory bandwidth, could we see RAM sinks again to get higher clocks

How about 512bit memory? (next gen perhaps?)

 

[Wunderchu]

How about 512bit memory? (next gen perhaps?)

there is very high likelihood that there will be an R480 VPU with 512 MB memory