R420 Hints from people under NDA!

[Andrew]

Waiting for their first move was a given....why play your cards when you don't need to.

Regardless of the stuff i've read, i still think ATI's original plan was to release the Pro and some months down the road, bring out the XT just like with the R3xx cards.

It is not too far fetched to think that the XT is coming out so much sooner because they might have been caught with their pants down like nVidia did last round with the NV30.

 

[Bry]

Actually that Question about the *B* Team should answer itself. REmember what happened with the 8500 launch? Lets just say that ATi is far from repeating a mistake like that. Just like in college football some teams *b* team is as good or even better than others *a* team.

I do not remember the 8500 launch..so I am sorta dumbfounded here..lol Anyway to me this could mean two things. One that ATI , having already seen the results of the NV40, knows that its *B* Team (X800Pro) can either match frame for frame what NV40 can do..and this would make a hell of a remark by releasing this for reviews first. And also allow NV to do any tricks they might have up there sleeve before they release Team *A* and hammer the last nail in the coffin.
Or they would go ahead and release *A* and *B* for reviews so they can be benched together, but *B* would be available in stores that day, and *A* available a few weeks later..

Now I am really confused..Hope I did not confuse you..I had surgery monday so am on some good drugs..Think they might be affecting me a little.. Anyway can you explain better, or is it an NDA thing that you can not go into detail over?

 

[AlphaWolf]

Regardless of the stuff i've read, i still think ATI's original plan was to release the Pro and some months down the road, bring out the XT just like with the R3xx cards.

It is not too far fetched to think that the XT is coming out so much sooner because they might have been caught with their pants down like nVidia did last round with the NV30.

Yet ATI had always planned to have a PEG part, and so far the only one being released is the XT? Less than a month later? Or was that changed also and ATI originally planned no PEG part till later or a pro PEG part or are just releasing a higher performing one sooner and skipping the pro?

If the rumors are true and the pro is a 12 pipe part and the xt is a 16 pipe, how long do you think ATI was going to bin them before they actually released? Also the rumor that it seems we will actually be seeing retail boards from ATI a month before nvidia suggests that the ATI card has been 'ready' for a while.

 

[Ailuros]

**edited because I overlooked John's plead.

 

[AlphaWolf]

I do not remember the 8500 launch..so I am sorta dumbfounded here..

the 8500 launch was sorta like the nv30 launch, ATI announced it, it looked good on paper, then they were way late delivering then it was plagued with other issues.

(Unlike the nv30 ATI continued to work on it, and it finally realized some of its potential and made a pretty good low end part for a while after the r300)

 

[Bry]

I do not remember the 8500 launch..so I am sorta dumbfounded here..

the 8500 launch was sorta like the nv30 launch, ATI announced it, it looked good on paper, then they were way late delivering then it was plagued with other issues.

(Unlike the nv30 ATI continued to work on it, and it finally realized some of its potential and made a pretty good low end part for a while after the r300)

Hmm sounds like that was the beginning of good things to come..
So I will assume he meant they will send reviewers X800XT for the previews..However I still do not understand what he meant by his *B* team comment though.

 

[Evildeus]

So the current rumors are:
800 XT: 16 pipes @ 525/600
800 pro: 12 pipes @ 475/450
Is that right?

 

[Seiko]

Hey Type

I would not sell the farm on the idea that ATi is just sitting on the R300 core still. Steroids can mean a lot of things and can apply to a lot of areas.

Personally, I woundn't build peoples hopes up on the any additional features the R420 will bring before first defining the term 'feature'.

In short, I believe those looking at the R420 for new "features" PS3 or otherwise are going to be disappointed. Those looking at the R420 for raw performance are going to be thrilled.

 

[carpediem]

So the current rumors are:
800 XT: 16 pipes @ 525/600
800 pro: 12 pipes @ 475/450
Is that right?

With these numbers, how much faster would you guessstimate the XT to be compared to the pro version?

 

[Evildeus]

With these numbers, how much faster would you guessstimate the XT to be compared to the pro version?

When the test is not fill rate limited or BW limited, i would say 30-40% more FPS. Otherwise, i would say 10-20%.

 

[Cali3350]

Assuming the $300 chips are noticeably better then my ageng 9700Pro (holds breath and crosses fingers), ill get the 6800 unless its sig slower in that price range. i hate Nvidias marketing, they make me want all that stuff it has :?

 

[hmmm]

Assuming the $300 chips are noticeably better then my ageng 9700Pro (holds breath and crosses fingers), ill get the 6800 unless its sig slower in that price range. i hate Nvidias marketing, they make me want all that stuff it has :?

Was it this thread DoS was asking about people saying they're going to run out and buy something?

 

[christoph]

Doomtrooper wrote:

Waiting for their first move was a given....why play your cards when you don't need to.

sorry, i fail to see a strategic advantage in that behaviour......whats good when you let your potential customers believe the current best solution comes from your closest competitor......even if its only for 2-4 weeks?

nvidia is feature and performance leader right now. how is that good for ati?

 

[BRiT]

sorry, i fail to see a strategic advantage in that behavior......whats good when you let your potential costumors believe the current best solution is from your closest competitor......even if its only for 2-4 weeks?

nvidia is feature and performance leader right now. how is that good for ati?

Because everyone that's sensible will be saying "One should wait until the ATI R420". Also, can you buy an NV40 now? No, you can't.

Perhaps the question should be, why announce a card when it's not available and the company still has the old chips stockpiled? ATI took a bit of a loss on the R8500 when the R9700 came out. They're not doing that this time around. This is why we saw such huge drops in prices as of January on the R3x0 cores. Nvidia is now taking this same hit on their NV3x cores, as ATI did on the R8500. This is why they announced a 10 - 20% discount on them. Realisticly, it will take closer to a 60% discount to move those cores.

 

[Sxotty]

Brit you fail to follow your own logic through. Only a total moron would go gee whiz since the 6800 is about to come out i'll buy a 9800 from ATI, any person with a clue would stay away from the competitors product as well until they see how everything shakes out. The exception is people buying from dell and stuff who don't have a clue to begin with. So in effect by releasing the 6800 you can diminish the sales of your nv3x line and the competitors r3xx line.

 

[christoph]

Because everyone that's sensible will be saying "One should wait until the ATI R420". Also, can you buy an NV40 now? No, you can't.

Perhaps the question should be, why announce a card when it's not available and the company still has the old chips stockpiled? ATI took a bit of a loss on the R8500 when the R9700 came out. They're not doing that this time around. This is why we saw such huge drops in prices as of January on the R3x0 cores. Nvidia is now taking this same hit on their NV3x cores, as ATI did on the R8500. This is why they announced a 10 - 20% discount on them. Realisticly, it will take closer to a 60% discount to move those cores.

do you think the average customer is as sensible as many around here are? this is more about building up minds or prestige than anything else imo....

 

[BRiT]

Brit you fail to follow your own logic through. Only a total moron would go gee whiz since the 6800 is about to come out i'll buy a 9800 from ATI, any person with a clue would stay away from the competitors product as well until they see how everything shakes out. The exception is people buying from dell and stuff who don't have a clue to begin with. So in effect by releasing the 6800 you can diminish the sales of your nv3x line and the competitors r3xx line.

I can see how a $500 card/$400 (6800 Ultra/nonUltra) will impact the $400 card sales (ATI 9800XT). But I fail to see it impacting the $215 card (ATI 9800Pro) sales.

 

[micron]

nvidia is feature and performance leader right now. how is that good for ati?

Do not crown something you cannot yet buy.

 

[BRiT]

do you think the average customer is as sensible as many around here are? this is more about building up minds or prestige than anything else imo....

Well they seemed to have been with the launch of the former generation. How many people [online reviewers] did you see saying "Wait until the NV30" when they reviewed the ATI R300? I remember seeing tons of people saying "I'd like to buy the ATI R300 cards but I'm going to wait to see what the NV30 has to offer." So they waited, and waited, and waited, and then realized it couldn't compete with the R300.

If it worked for Nvidia then, why shouldn't it work for ATI now?

 

[christoph]

@brit
i guess thats quite a different scenario.....
for how many generations nvidia had the lead back then?