Yeah, I know, I was just confused about which had that many DMA channels. And, nah I wouldn't *really* count them as separate processors since all they're doing is moving data around and not really doing any computations. Any benefits of that much DMA? Well, I think it was more that it needed it by having so many other separate processors with their own memory spaces. So, the real question would have to be, did the design of the PS2 have benefits over the competition. I would say overall no, except if you want to make a type of games that works well on the machine. Otherwise, for a games machine, I think it was more of a headache for a lot of people than it was worth. Course, better tools (especially in the beginning) would have helped this a lot I think. Same story with the saturn.
Questions about PS2
- Thread starter Liandry
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Yeah, I know, I was just confused about which had that many DMA channels. And, nah I wouldn't *really* count them as separate processors since all they're doing is moving data around and not really doing any computations. Any benefits of that much DMA? Well, I think it was more that it needed it by having so many other separate processors with their own memory spaces. So, the real question would have to be, did the design of the PS2 have benefits over the competition. I would say overall no, except if you want to make a type of games that works well on the machine. Otherwise, for a games machine, I think it was more of a headache for a lot of people than it was worth. Course, better tools (especially in the beginning) would have helped this a lot I think. Same story with the saturn.
IIRC, PS2 is reported as having 10 DMA channels. Then again, the Commodore Amiga had 12+ back in the early/mid '80s; I don't even recall how many exactly anymore...
Ok, but can we call DMAC a processor?
https://wiki.pcsx2.net/PCSX2_Documentation/PS2's_Programmable_DMA
Traditionally DMAs are pretty simple. The Playstation 2's EmotionEngine, however, has an 'intelligent' programmable DMA controller (DMAC). Neatly translated, it means that the DMAC can do a lot more than just move raw data from place to place. It supports several modes of operation and has a number of special features to take advantage of the unique multi-core design of the EE. Furthermore, the EE's DMAC is much more tightly integrated with its memory bus than traditional DMAs, allowing it to transfer data with exceptional efficiency. These two features combined make the EE's DMAC a key component to PS2 games developers -- in quite a few games, the DMAC actually does more raw work than the EE Core CPU (R5900).
I also mostly interested what mean what DMAC in some games does more raw work than EE Core CPU (R5900).
Sounds like complete nonsense tbh. I wouldn't pay that quote much attention unless there's a damn good explanation of what 'work' exactly is supposed to take place in a DMA controller.
In fact the whole section reads a lot like marketing speak or fanboyish noise. For example, by definition, any piece of hardware which differs from other hardwares even to the smallest degree, is 'unique'.
I'm not sure exactly what it means either, but the guy who wrote that got hired by sony and he's the team lead on the backwards compatibility team. Some of his old posts on the forum were great, maybe he went more into detail in there at some point.
Tkumpathenurple
Veteran
Sooo... he doesn't know what he's talking about then?
I don't think pcsx2 would run anywhere near full speed on a 1.6GHz jaguar sooo...
There's a whole lot more information about writing DMAC packets in the SoE paper that Rockstar published way, way back, if you care. I wouldn't get too wrapped up in what "more work" means.
http://galileo.dmi.unict.it/utenti/emanuele-f/posts/ps2dev/docs/Procedural Rendering on PlayStation 2.pdf
http://galileo.dmi.unict.it/utenti/emanuele-f/posts/ps2dev/docs/Procedural Rendering on PlayStation 2.pdf
This thread is awesome !
I love reading old threads concerning the technology in consoles
from the Dreamcast/Ps2/Xbox/Gamecube era.
I'm curious though, would anyone happen to know if any technical
documents for these older machines have appeared online ?
Like is there a chance we could get hardware specifics for the ps2
or even ps3 now that those generations have come to a close ?
Or would that sort of information be kept behind NDA even after all these years?
Would I have to turn to the homebrew communities to find out more information
on these consoles, their insides and how they function ?
I hope someone who's more knowledgeable than I can answer.
I love reading old threads concerning the technology in consoles
from the Dreamcast/Ps2/Xbox/Gamecube era.
I'm curious though, would anyone happen to know if any technical
documents for these older machines have appeared online ?
Like is there a chance we could get hardware specifics for the ps2
or even ps3 now that those generations have come to a close ?
Or would that sort of information be kept behind NDA even after all these years?
Would I have to turn to the homebrew communities to find out more information
on these consoles, their insides and how they function ?
I hope someone who's more knowledgeable than I can answer.
I think sony released ps2 documentation for linux on ps2.
Im wondering again, why was this omitted in the xbox (and GC?) version, the glow when entering/exiting a tunnel? Its very apperant in Peak 3, kick doubt, as in the following video,
DF highlights this
Tested myself side-by-side, PS2 version having this extreme glow saturation, xbox version glistens much more in the moonlight though.
Only PS2 was able to do this 'bloom' effect?
DF highlights this
Tested myself side-by-side, PS2 version having this extreme glow saturation, xbox version glistens much more in the moonlight though.
Only PS2 was able to do this 'bloom' effect?
Interestingly the discussion about Dreamcast and bump mapping, made me look for examples on the PS2
We have Path of Neo as a clear example.
But one other title where it is claimed to have it is Hitman. I searched and couldnt find anything though. Where did it implement it?
Another interesting case is Splinter Cell on PS2. Ubisoft claimed before reelased that they discovered a solution called Geo Texturing.
This video demonstrates it:
The final game though doesnt seem to have it. Or does it? I believe it was not present and the feature was never seen again.
We have Path of Neo as a clear example.
But one other title where it is claimed to have it is Hitman. I searched and couldnt find anything though. Where did it implement it?
Another interesting case is Splinter Cell on PS2. Ubisoft claimed before reelased that they discovered a solution called Geo Texturing.
This video demonstrates it:
It's not normal mapping as it generates 3D data. My guess is displacement mapping and procedural geometry.
it was in the final game, but in rare places, not through the whole game.
Tekken tag tournament was using something look a bit like this for the ground of several stages, but it might have just been polygonal ground, i don't know.
Hitman: Blood Money has a good amount of bump and normal mapping IIRC. Been a while since I've played it but it's a more subtle implementation compared to Path of Neo.
where is the bump mapping?And yet it looks a good amount better on og xbox? Or am i seeing it totally wrong?
Seems seriously paired back compared to the original reveal, almost to the point of non-existence
The one thing that amazes me regarding the PS2 is the fact that the 'bump/normal map hunt' is still ongoing after 19 years of existence. Its clear to me that the PS2 wasnt that well suited for the use of bump, normal or any of those kind of effects in games, not in any way. Geotexturing or pure polys or not, whenever it was used it was very subtle in the handful of titles that had it.
Perhaps more impressive for the PS2 was the use of spherical harmonic lighting in SotC.
Btw, we all know how chaos theory turned out on ps2,
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