Panajev2001a
Veteran
Tagrineth... even the EE+GS@90 nm uses only 8 Watts... and the processor could be even better optimized for better power consumption if it had to go on a handheld...
PSP ??
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CeiserSöze
Newcomer
I hope the guys at Nintendo realize what this means, because if they don't they could soon be in trouble 
Isn't that about what a Discman cost when it was initially released? This doesn't have to be an immediate success in its first year, but this is precisely the companion-component for the impending PS3. Congratulations, Sony. This is the direction that Nintendo needs to be heading, and I wouldn't be surprised if Iwata and Miyamoto call a surprise conference tomorrow with a portable GCN drawn on a napkin... "See, we thought of it first!"
Evil_Cloud
Veteran
Sony has the power to make it very succesful... if it can make good games and a PS2 - PSP linkup
GBA uses 0.6 watts by comparison...not the SP of course because of the front-light screen plus that runs off a lithium-ion battery. I'm with Tag on this. I use to underestimate battery-life but GBA ran like 10 hours on fresh AAs. GBA SP does about the same with the light on, and damn near twice as long with the light off. Very useful when you are trying to beat a Castlevania or some huge arse game.
back to PSP. Maybe its the R3000a with a better embedded GTE. I was under the impression that Cell didn't use any MIPS licensed technology. Yeah, new technology to speculate over. whoohoo! Why not the R3000a, everyone knows it by now, games could be made pretty quickly. Imagine Metal Gear Solid or Gran Turismo on a portable at launch as soon as next year. With better graphics thanks to an improved GTE. [/me giddy with joy]
back to PSP. Maybe its the R3000a with a better embedded GTE. I was under the impression that Cell didn't use any MIPS licensed technology. Yeah, new technology to speculate over. whoohoo! Why not the R3000a, everyone knows it by now, games could be made pretty quickly. Imagine Metal Gear Solid or Gran Turismo on a portable at launch as soon as next year. With better graphics thanks to an improved GTE. [/me giddy with joy]
Panajev2001a
Veteran
Uhm... the GTE would need to be MUCH improoved... NURBS talk... lots of polygons...I think they could use the EE's VU1
We are also talking about MPEG4 decoding...
Uhm... They could take away the MJPEG decoding unit and put a smaller version of the IPU optimized for MPEG4 HW acceleration and then add VU1 instead of the GTE... It would not be as good as the EE with two VUs, but this is a portable...
All in 90 nm technology... it should be pretty small... e-DRAM on the CPU ( acting as GPU as well ? We will see, it might have added HW for things like texture filtering [at least bi-linear] )... then a nice die shrink to 65 nm to cut costs and power consumption... nice
We are also talking about MPEG4 decoding...
Uhm... They could take away the MJPEG decoding unit and put a smaller version of the IPU optimized for MPEG4 HW acceleration and then add VU1 instead of the GTE... It would not be as good as the EE with two VUs, but this is a portable...
All in 90 nm technology... it should be pretty small... e-DRAM on the CPU ( acting as GPU as well ? We will see, it might have added HW for things like texture filtering [at least bi-linear] )... then a nice die shrink to 65 nm to cut costs and power consumption... nice
Panajev2001a said:
8W in a handheld might just as well be 8000W.
It's an unfeasibly high power draw for that kind of device, and to that we have to add memory (like 1W per RDRAM device). ALso, we hardly need 1200Mpix/s fillrate and 4MB eDRAM framebuffer for a screen with that tiny resolution. Anyway, 8W for EE+GS, that's really impressive considering the original .25u version had a draw of like 50W. That is progress, kudos to Sony!
However, my PS2 with the .18u versions of the chips (I guess) barely gets warm even after extensive use, but then the fan is pretty powerful. The piddly fan in the GC makes the air coming out of that thing to get HOT.
*G*
Panajev2001a
Veteran
It is 2.4 GPixels/s of pure fill-rate for you Grall
I was just saying... think about the fact that these the same guys who can make a chip with both the EE and the GS that is 86 mm^2 and uses 8 Watts... they can make a nice handheld CPU with good battery life ( optimized power consumption )
I was just saying... think about the fact that these the same guys who can make a chip with both the EE and the GS that is 86 mm^2 and uses 8 Watts... they can make a nice handheld CPU with good battery life ( optimized power consumption )
As impressive as it is, I doubt the PSP will pose a serious threat to Nintendo.
First of all, portable gaming systems have always appealed to the younger crowd, and Nintendo still has quite a bit of brand-name appeal to them. After all, they made everything from Mario to Pokemon.
Second, with the specs of the PSP (medium-resolution screen, 1.8 GB disc, 3d-capable graphics), it'll probably be bigger and much more power-hungry than the GBA. It will almost definitely be much more expensive, especially if they use big batteries to offset the power consumption. Price is a very big concern for handhelds; handhelds are generally seen as a "toy" and people don't like to spend a lot of money on them. Of course, with Sony's financial standing, they might pull a Microsoft and give away a ton of PSPs for almost-free. (Let's hope so... that would be good for everyone except Nintendo)
On the other hand, the 1.8 GB minidisc holds a lot of promise. A 1.8 GB, 60mm disc kicks the ass of the Xbox's hard drive any day - although I have to wonder how much one would cost. If the PSP ends up having more functionality than a simple gaming handheld - if it can be used for PDA-like functions - the storage capacity of 1.8 GB minidiscs would be just awesome.
However, if it became an expensive PocketPC-like accessory, it would no longer overlap with the Game Boy's core demographic. The features of the PSP are simply too big, too ambitious to overlap with a simple machine like the GBA. So I doubt that Nintendo is quaking in their boots or fearing extinction, not yet.
First of all, portable gaming systems have always appealed to the younger crowd, and Nintendo still has quite a bit of brand-name appeal to them. After all, they made everything from Mario to Pokemon.
Second, with the specs of the PSP (medium-resolution screen, 1.8 GB disc, 3d-capable graphics), it'll probably be bigger and much more power-hungry than the GBA. It will almost definitely be much more expensive, especially if they use big batteries to offset the power consumption. Price is a very big concern for handhelds; handhelds are generally seen as a "toy" and people don't like to spend a lot of money on them. Of course, with Sony's financial standing, they might pull a Microsoft and give away a ton of PSPs for almost-free. (Let's hope so... that would be good for everyone except Nintendo)
On the other hand, the 1.8 GB minidisc holds a lot of promise. A 1.8 GB, 60mm disc kicks the ass of the Xbox's hard drive any day - although I have to wonder how much one would cost.
If the PSP ends up having more functionality than a simple gaming handheld - if it can be used for PDA-like functions - the storage capacity of 1.8 GB minidiscs would be just awesome.However, if it became an expensive PocketPC-like accessory, it would no longer overlap with the Game Boy's core demographic. The features of the PSP are simply too big, too ambitious to overlap with a simple machine like the GBA. So I doubt that Nintendo is quaking in their boots or fearing extinction, not yet.
Panajev2001a
Veteran
It depends... Cell phones are not seen in this light and neither is the GBA SP...
You are assuming it will have MUCH worse battery life and that it will be MUCH bigger and MUCH more expensive and also you are assuming it tries to go for the same demographic that is usually associated with Nintendo it was not true for the PSX, I do nto see why it should for the PSP...
Agree, but it doesn't mean it can't be aimed towards older audience.
Its a one chip solution, this thing is aimed for late 2004. The screen is bigger than GBA. that UMD drive no doubt going to eat some energy. But I don't think it will be that much more.
Don't know, this is for late 2004 product, it may look ambitious now but come then, competition probably catch up already.
I am sure MS going to have something as well. There is no way they're going to stand still. Nintendo better do something, instead of rehasing Mario. I am glad that Super Mario Advance 4 is SMB3, but still, they better start putting those profits into better games or hardware, before its too late.
Panajev2001a said:
Yep, as you well know Pan, I've long stated that Cell will be based on MIPS. I was quite taken back when the patent made references to PPC instead of MIPS64.
And while the "fully reconfigurable" talk is remeniscent of Cell, I'm still not completely sold. Perhaps 70%.
I think your seriously underestimating the potential of this - which If my thinking is correct, goes way beyond simple gaming. Nintendo better find a merger partner.
V3:
It'll launch head-on against Game Boy and PSP.
The screen resolution will be upwards of 1600x1200 to support high-definition video playback for the next generation of movies and HDTV.
With built-in wireless functionality and massive read/write storage space, users will be able to access a high-speed network to download multimedia content such as games, movies, music, and television delivered by most of the major providers. Also working like a phone or internet link, the device will serve as a mobile internet-banking and e-commerce terminal.
Though expensive to manufacture, Microsoft will implement an economic model to sell the hardware significantly below cost. This includes a royalty and profit-sharing system for content providers/partners and subscription/pay-to-download fees for consumers accessing the wireless functionality and services.
In the eventual future, the home-use line of Xbox consoles will be phased out in favor of this mobile, broadband computing system.
Or whatever.
They will:
It'll launch head-on against Game Boy and PSP.
The screen resolution will be upwards of 1600x1200 to support high-definition video playback for the next generation of movies and HDTV.
With built-in wireless functionality and massive read/write storage space, users will be able to access a high-speed network to download multimedia content such as games, movies, music, and television delivered by most of the major providers. Also working like a phone or internet link, the device will serve as a mobile internet-banking and e-commerce terminal.
Though expensive to manufacture, Microsoft will implement an economic model to sell the hardware significantly below cost. This includes a royalty and profit-sharing system for content providers/partners and subscription/pay-to-download fees for consumers accessing the wireless functionality and services.
In the eventual future, the home-use line of Xbox consoles will be phased out in favor of this mobile, broadband computing system.
Or whatever.
I think it is to be expected that Sony has thought this through. I doubt they'll launch a portable system that won't have a decent battery lifespan. I've seen Sony do wonders in the Walkman business (my portable MD lasts 60+ hours, compare that to other brands...) - I'm sure they'll find a way to be just enough competitive in this area aswell.
megadrive0088
Regular
Don't forget, PSX is not a true, true 3D machine. no Z-buffer. PSP should be much better than that. should also have filtering, some AA, and more polygon power. something in between PSX and PS2....
still i would LOVE a EE+GS based PSP - maybe on 65nm or 45nm
hey that will be PSP-2
still i would LOVE a EE+GS based PSP - maybe on 65nm or 45nm
hey that will be PSP-2
MD players do nothing in comparison to this though. With the buffer sizes used in today's players the motor only spins for a few seconds every 40 secs (standard play) to appx 3.5 MINUTES (LP4), and the processor playing back the audio is a relatively weak DSP jobbie. Far from what's needed in a pretty hi-res gaming machine.
No wonder the battery lasts a LONG time.
Maybe Sony surprises us, who knows. Allow me to be somewhat sceptical though, hehe. Would be cool if the USB connector allowed the device to operate without batteries or a power adapter!
*G*
No wonder the battery lasts a LONG time.
Maybe Sony surprises us, who knows. Allow me to be somewhat sceptical though, hehe. Would be cool if the USB connector allowed the device to operate without batteries or a power adapter!
*G*
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