PSP ??

I don't know how many of you all have kids. As you may know, the husband and I have 4 Jr. Jedis, and they are all gamers (we are so proud ;) ). Between them, they have 2 GBs, 2 GBCs, a GBA, and a Sega handheld (hey, it was wicked cheap on ebay and a good stocking stuffer), and about 40 different games for the various handhelds. I have removed cartridges from: the air conditioner, under the entertainment center, out of their gram's kitty litter box, unwedged one from the elevator in the Barbie Dream House, dug one out of the dirt after the snow melted, picked pretzel bits out of three of them (littlest Jedi...loves to cram pretzels and chocolate in electronics...)....they've been carted around in the bottom of backpacks with books and boots on top, used as weapons, used as dominoes...and every single one still works. I don't think that there is any question about the durability of cartridges. I have serious doubts, however, that after any one of the aforementioned abuses a disc would even consider working again.

If Sony is targetting kids with this system, then they are way off the mark. Sure, there will be a crap load of them under thousands of Christmas trees next year, but I wouldn't like to be a Sony exec. come January when angry soccor moms start calling about the discs being scratched up "already"! Doesn't matter how much a handheld is capable of...without working games, it's just a neat paper weight. I am not going to waste $35 on a game that's just going to be scratched beyond use in a few weeks.

Not to mention the kid whipping it around, throwing it in anger, stepping on it, carelessly kicking it under the bed, dropping it down the stairs, spilling drinks on it...you know, all the stuff kids do with no regard to how much parents have to shell out for it :) Sony is not really known for the durability of it's gaming systems.

That said, I think that the system can be a success if they don't target kids. But the perception in the mainstream is that handhelds have always been toys, and that toys are for kids. Remember, most people who buy handhelds aren't "gamers". This will be a very difficult obstacle to overcome.

As far as being a major competetor with Nintendo, I believe that for a little while PSP sales will top GBwhatever-the-next-one-will-be sales...but I think that once parents realise discs are a bad idea for the younger market, we'll see a sharp decline in sales. I see it as profitable, but no real competition for Nintendo.
 
Panajev2001a said:
NO, she said 256 MB... ah come on... we cannot play this game... you keep increasing the size and assuming the cost of it will be low...

As far as a 256 MB or a 512 MB cartdridge comparable to a mass produced optical disc... well we disagree...

Panajev. I said 256+ MB. They've projected up to 1 GB ROM sizes.

And I'm talking about megaBYTES, not bits; please note the capital B. Current GBA mask ROMs go up to 16MB; the new matrix ROM technology is a massive leap in storage capacity.
 
And I repeat the question since neither you nor others have answered:

this does not change the fact that, accepting this new technology, 512 MB ROMs will be more expensive than 256 MB ROMs and that 1 GB ROMs will be more expensive than 512 MB ROMs...

If developers do not go to 16 MB becuase the hit on their budget is heavvy and it would lower margins even more, why would they use bigger than 256 MB ROMs ( assuming that these new 256 MB ROMs will cost the same as current 8 MB ROMs ) ?

I missed your 256+ MB, but still this doesn't change the basic fact I presented above...

I find a bit strange that 256 MB ROMs will cost to developers the same as current 8 MB ROMs, but for the sake of the argument I will accept it...

I still think that mass produced UMDs ( wether single or double layer versions ) will be cheaper at the end... and the storage capacity and low cost advantage is maintained...

Do you think that Sony did not research something similar to these new ROMs you see for the GBA and its successor ?

I think they did and they opted for something better... as far as the storage space:price ratio is concerned ( they wanted a solution that was cheaper per bit of storage )...

And I know you were talking about Bytes, no need of bold there ;)

If I wanted to be mean ( ;) I would not ;) ) i would have contested saying that MB or MiB was THE point of the argument :lol

;)

J/K
 
That said, I think that the system can be a success if they don't target kids. But the perception in the mainstream is that handhelds have always been toys, and that toys are for kids. Remember, most people who buy handhelds aren't "gamers". This will be a very difficult obstacle to overcome.

As far as being a major competetor with Nintendo, I believe that for a little while PSP sales will top GBwhatever-the-next-one-will-be sales...but I think that once parents realise discs are a bad idea for the younger market, we'll see a sharp decline in sales. I see it as profitable, but no real competition for Nintendo.

That was true ( first part especially ) during the SNES days... then PlayStation arrived and brought gaming in the mainstream...

And for the non-gamers, well I think the PSP will have a certain cool factor attached to it and the PlayStation brand name is powerful too, not just the Nintendo one ;)

PlayStation 1 and PlayStation 2 are being so succesful because they have also targeted to the casual gamers and to the non gamers... I think Sony will be able to leverage that in the handheld market.

I also would like to know why discs are bad for the younger market and why would parents stop buying the kids the toy they want: sometimes the parents give ion to the most popular toy and if ten kids around you own a PSP ( as it was true for the GBA ) you will go to your mother asking one too...

Still, the reason why I do not predict doom and gloom for Nintendo is that Sony is not targeting the same exact market and I think that both products can succesfully co-exist as, aside some minor to small overlapping, they would basically cather to different audiences and demographics...

This should only be a bit threatening of the GBA SP kind of move into the "cool gadget" market as we will see overlapping there...




Edit: thank you, btw, for your input as a parent :)
 
MrsSkywalker said:
I don't know how many of you all have kids. As you may know, the husband and I have 4 Jr. Jedis, and they are all gamers (we are so proud ;) ). Between them, they have 2 GBs, 2 GBCs, a GBA, and a Sega handheld (hey, it was wicked cheap on ebay and a good stocking stuffer), and about 40 different games for the various handhelds. I have removed cartridges from: the air conditioner, under the entertainment center, out of their gram's kitty litter box, unwedged one from the elevator in the Barbie Dream House, dug one out of the dirt after the snow melted, picked pretzel bits out of three of them (littlest Jedi...loves to cram pretzels and chocolate in electronics...)....they've been carted around in the bottom of backpacks with books and boots on top, used as weapons, used as dominoes...and every single one still works. I don't think that there is any question about the durability of cartridges. I have serious doubts, however, that after any one of the aforementioned abuses a disc would even consider working again.

If Sony is targetting kids with this system, then they are way off the mark. Sure, there will be a crap load of them under thousands of Christmas trees next year, but I wouldn't like to be a Sony exec. come January when angry soccor moms start calling about the discs being scratched up "already"! Doesn't matter how much a handheld is capable of...without working games, it's just a neat paper weight. I am not going to waste $35 on a game that's just going to be scratched beyond use in a few weeks.

Not to mention the kid whipping it around, throwing it in anger, stepping on it, carelessly kicking it under the bed, dropping it down the stairs, spilling drinks on it...you know, all the stuff kids do with no regard to how much parents have to shell out for it :) Sony is not really known for the durability of it's gaming systems.

That said, I think that the system can be a success if they don't target kids. But the perception in the mainstream is that handhelds have always been toys, and that toys are for kids. Remember, most people who buy handhelds aren't "gamers". This will be a very difficult obstacle to overcome.

As far as being a major competetor with Nintendo, I believe that for a little while PSP sales will top GBwhatever-the-next-one-will-be sales...but I think that once parents realise discs are a bad idea for the younger market, we'll see a sharp decline in sales. I see it as profitable, but no real competition for Nintendo.

Learn your kids to treat their games better then... :?
Maybe you should only give a PSP to the one's who are up for it...
There's also a scratch remover on the market, but offcourse if you use it as a frisbee... :LOL:
At least here's one person that didn't/doesn't/won't have scratches on his disks... ;)
 
It is the price that matters imo.

At $99, possibility of success >> HIGH
At $149, possibility of success >> OK
At $199, possibility of success >> hur hur
At $249, possiblity of success >> uh oh
At $299, possibility of success >> PlAytari Lynx 2!

Like everyone agreed on, PSP is not targetting to be another kiddy "fun" handheld but more of a PDE(personal digital entertainment) device. Kutaragi said best >> WALKMAN OF THE 21st CENTURY.

Couple that with the specs, i say price might not be in PSP favor.
 
chaphack said:
It is the price that matters imo.

At $99, possibility of success >> HIGH
At $149, possibility of success >> OK
At $199, possibility of success >> hur hur
At $249, possiblity of success >> uh oh
At $299, possibility of success >> PlAytari Lynx 2!

Like everyone agreed on, PSP is not targetting to be another kiddy "fun" handheld but more of a PDE(personal digital entertainment) device. Kutaragi said best >> WALKMAN OF THE 21st CENTURY.

Couple that with the specs, i say price might not be in PSP favor.


i guess that the target audience will increase proportionally with the price. more expensive ---> older people
also, i dont see 7 year old kids using a device that play games, plays mp3's, mp4's and all that thing is supposed to do...
still, i think i'm getting one unless it turns out to be a piece of shit..
 
My reasons why PSP will hurt Nintento

Missed the right button after doing some high speed posting, so here it is, perfect thread and still good for a reply. ;)

...

- It will be the first handheld with real 3D support. Right now there are much more good 3D artists in the gaming business then 2D artists that have an eye for every single pixel.

- It will be much easyer to make a handheld version of a console game if there is real 3D support and a media with enough space to store things. (Sound, music, textures, models ...)

- With a 16:9 screen, it's much easyer to add more buttons, even analog then on the SP layout.

- Sony has proven that they can make very small hardware, so no worry about bringing the USB port, big screen, Dual Shock like control sheme ... to a pocket gaming device.

- The PSP will have a floating point unit and much more RAM then the GBA. It will not be a 2D platform where 3D is extremly difficult to use with good speed and quality.

- The PSP will have extra functionality like playing music (ATRAC, MP3) and movies (MPEG4), so it will be more then just a gaming device and you don't have to have an MP3 player and or movie player in an other pocket. Maybe there will even be basic PDA functionality.

- It will be a huge jump from the GBA to the PSP. So they can hype the device as a real next generation device and not just like a color update or whatever.

- The licencing fees will be much better for developers with a disc media, so you will see much more games with big budges. (Not as big as PS2 games, but still much more then possible with non Nintendo games on the GBA)

- The hype machine of Sonys marketing. Nothing can beat it, not even much better harware. Yeah, gameboy has a huge userbase, but they missed to bring real inventions. I don't think the PSP will try to beat the GBA maarket directly, the PSP will open a new market for portable 3D games with CG sequences and anything else a hugh storage media can do for a game.

Fredi
 
I don't know how many of you all have kids. As you may know, the husband and I have 4 Jr. Jedis, and they are all gamers (we are so proud icon_wink.gif ). Between them, they have 2 GBs, 2 GBCs, a GBA, and a Sega handheld (hey, it was wicked cheap on ebay and a good stocking stuffer), and about 40 different games for the various handhelds. I have removed cartridges from: the air conditioner, under the entertainment center, out of their gram's kitty litter box, unwedged one from the elevator in the Barbie Dream House, dug one out of the dirt after the snow melted, picked pretzel bits out of three of them (littlest Jedi...loves to cram pretzels and chocolate in electronics...)....they've been carted around in the bottom of backpacks with books and boots on top, used as weapons, used as dominoes...and every single one still works. I don't think that there is any question about the durability of cartridges. I have serious doubts, however, that after any one of the aforementioned abuses a disc would even consider working again.

If Sony is targetting kids with this system, then they are way off the mark. Sure, there will be a crap load of them under thousands of Christmas trees next year, but I wouldn't like to be a Sony exec. come January when angry soccor moms start calling about the discs being scratched up "already"! Doesn't matter how much a handheld is capable of...without working games, it's just a neat paper weight. I am not going to waste $35 on a game that's just going to be scratched beyond use in a few weeks.

Oh I see now... well your carts have not seen the worst that can happen to them...

fritzen.jpg


Could a ROM really resist that ( trust me, thos little sharp teeth can ruin supposely scratch-proof glasses... ;) ) ??? ;)

Well no worry... I was not going to tell you German Shepherd dogs are bad... uhm... maybe this will help ;)




eg-sara3.jpg


baby1.jpg



baby2.jpg


puppy24.jpg


puppy3.jpg



Uhm... how did I get into this ? ;)

Going back to the original topic, well I understand your point, but this way no mother would buy CDs, DVDs or games for any of the regular home consoles as they are all optical discs...

One of the key-factor will be that PSP's demographics is generally higher than Game Boy's one and it is more similar to PSX/PlayStation 1/PSOne and PlayStation 2's demographics... the problem you described should be less of an issue...

I also do believe that games should cost less than $35 and there is a good chance those discs will have indeed protective casing... like Mini Discs do...
 
Let's be serious about the storage capacity of GBA cartridges, what kind of game would even need more than 32 MB or more? You don't really need FMV or CD-Quality audio for the GBA, 3D games on the GBA don't even use textures. 64 MB is the most I can see for any game on the GBA/GBASP. Nintendo's next handheld might use disc-based format, backward compatibility shouldn't be a problem if there's some sort of adapter for it.
 
Several remarks.

"PSP has no chance against Sony" reminds me awful lot of the "PSX can't possibly effect Nintendo" followed by the "ok, we might have been wrong about ps1/2, but come on, Xbox can't possibly go against Nintendo" comments from years past.

Battery life of PSP. Optical media = moving parts. Moving parts = high (er) power consumption, all other things being equal

"256MB cartages are comparable in cost with UMD". Could I see the source of that, because that seems highly unlikely. Optical media costs 10-50 cents to manufacture. If you can make a 10 cent 256MB CMOS device, I'd like to see it. However, I think its a moot point - even in ROMs are 10 times more expensive, its not going to add more then $1-2 to the cost of the game. The much more important issue is control - who can make games for the system and who can't. Nintendo has been using GBA as leverage to get people to develop for GC - something that will be much harder to do with an alternative platform.

Sony is very proficient with selling things based on hype, or future expectations. As long as these expectations are realized, I don't see much wrong with that. A promise of GTA PSP will sell a crapload of units.
 
Let's be serious about the storage capacity of GBA cartridges, what kind of game would even need more than 32 MB or more? You don't really need FMV or CD-Quality audio for the GBA, 3D games on the GBA don't even use textures. 64 MB is the most I can see for any game on the GBA/GBASP. Nintendo's next handheld might use disc-based format, backward compatibility shouldn't be a problem if there's some sort of adapter for it.

I think people who are assuming that PSP is aimed directly at Nintendo's handheld market are slightly off: As Vince already cared to explain, PSP will most likely be a way to add connectivity between PlayStation electronics and other Sony products. A way to distribute digital content over various electronics. Imagine a device that not only can play games with extraordinary graphics, but can also be used as a mp3 player, a movie player or even handle simple but important PDA functions. This isn't just the 'better GameBoy' - it's just so much more.
 
Also, aren't the discs encased (eg. Blue Ray)? Whatcha' worried about MrsSkywalker, them actually breaking it?
 
Haha you're proving MY point One of the reason people wanted PS2 initially was because of HYPE and the PSX wave not QUALITY

PS2 is still continuing to do well now is because of the headstart/momentum which gave it more games get it???

People passed over DC for the PS2 because of HYPE not quality. DC had the quality. There were no QUALITY games at launch for PS2 get it????

That WASNT what I arguing with you about, I was arguing your whole point on the fact that you said PS2 is winning because of a headstart.

When in reality that's wrong, because people wanted PS2 because of the hype and anticipation and brand name, not because it had the most games . If your whole more games = more console sales thing was true, than noone would have bought PS2 in record numbers, they would have got a DC.
 
Panajev2001a said:
I find a bit strange that 256 MB ROMs will cost to developers the same as current 8 MB ROMs, but for the sake of the argument I will accept it...

It's because the high-density ROMs use a different technology... the current ROMs are mask ROMs, which have been in use since the earliest game consoles (even going back to the Magnavox Odyssey, if I'm not mistaken); the new tech is called 'matrix ROM'.

Let's be serious about the storage capacity of GBA cartridges, what kind of game would even need more than 32 MB or more? You don't really need FMV or CD-Quality audio for the GBA, 3D games on the GBA don't even use textures.

Many of the best GBA games end up being disappointingly short (Megaman: Battle Network, Golden Sun), or having too few frames of animation compared to games on, say, PSX (Castlevanias).

And if you don't think 3D games on GBA use textures... Pocketeers should prove you wrong. :)
 
Thanks Tagrineth for the info on the new ROM... as I said I can accept that a 256 MB might be as cheap as one of today's ROMs ( maybe should we say price of new 256 MB ~= price of current 16 MB ? Or are you adamantious in saying 256 MB cost similarly to today's 8 MB ? ... I am just wondering :) )...

Still I do see mass produced UMDs as cheaper ( better space:( $ per bit ) ratio ) and while we have several strong point for the Game Boy, I see this one as a strenght of the PSP :)
 
Panajev2001a said:
Thanks Tagrineth for the info on the new ROM...

But what Tag, et al. won't tell you Pana is that there was suppose to be samples of this early 2002, yet nothing has emerged. In addition, Matrix has stated that a 64MB card could sell for $3 to $10.

All depends who you get your information from.... Not to mention the company that has developed this has recieved over $80M (much more than the big N has invested) from companies like Sony, Microsoft... :)
 
I think another disadvantage of ROM is that it takes longer to produce. Optical medium is just the way to go, IMO. Though if the next GBA, is using ROM, it shouldn't be a problem either.

Though it will look like SNES and PSX and N64 scenario again. See if Nintendo can do something about it. Though I don't think Nintendo should worry about PSP yet, as I think Nintendo need to send N-Gage to the grave first.
 
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