PSP to 'outclass' PS2 graphically?

[marconelly!]

I think YOU should be the one stopping on yer mushrooms. SH3 looks about SH2, with more beefy characters. Play SH2 indoors again, if you doubt my words. I hope you are not judging it via those pixel perfect SH3 PR screens, because the real game do NOT look that clean.

I HAVE played SH2 after playing SH3 demo It's fairly obvious I was willing to compare them. The game looks as clean as it gets in 640x resolution, the difference from SH2 is obvious and I haven't even played those better parts with animated textures and other effects. Whether you are willing to accept it or not, that game does look more impressive than most of the stuff that is out today, and having seen dozens of PS2 games before it, it's plain obvious why someone would believe the game was not running on PS2.

FF8 is 1999? Ok does it matter if we use Shrek, no PS2 games even come close to it!

Jesus, are you really that crazy... Shrek is a production made in 2002, almost nothing on this planet touches it even in the realm of CGI.

By OLD CGI, I think of stuff like Terminator 2, or those CGI cartoons like you earlier mentioned.

 

[chaphack]

shrek<< ok ok i misread you on that..

Not sure how T2 will fit with its half realworld half CGI usage. Heres hoping KIN can outgraphics ST!

So thats that you people decide.

 

[notAFanB]

I...don't..... .. .understand....

methinks this topic has run it's course.

 

[marconelly!]

Scenes from T2 you selected are all real-life models. T1000 was CGI, and it's pretty basic by today's standards (although to this day one of the most meaningfully used CGI)

So, it's this:

vs this:

Show it to someone who doesn't wake up and goes to bed thinking about bumpmapping, and ask him which one looks more like real human.

 

[notAFanB]

in the above case, isn't it more a tribute to the art direction(silent hill) and overuse of shading (CGI) which gives it all away?

this is a common occurence in the overuse of BM and GM.

 

[chaphack]

1) We know ST cartoons will look exactly like the image

2) We know SH3 game will not look like the image(since you played the demo, im sure you will noticed the visable alisaing on that scene)

3) I find the ST much more realistic even though he looks ugly

4) I say they are as comparable as FFTSW to ST to SH3 to Shenmue

5) Casual gamers....hmm hard to say, showing them both static images, it is possible for some to choose the SH3, while others the ST face. But showing both in motion, it will not be surprising if most go for the clean and CG looky ST one, as CGI quality(of course which it is) casual know off

 

[chaphack]

In terms of realism, both of them dont even come close. SH3 might have better art, but it looks too "colorful". While the ST ones is slightly overuse of technicalities, like what notafanb said.

Aged man, for real!

 

[marconelly!]

2) We know SH3 game will not look like the image(since you played the demo, im sure you will noticed the visable alisaing on that scene)

SH3 in that scene in particular, looks almost like that picture. I thought that by itself was pretty amazing. There is minor aliasing that is really only visible around the object outer edges, but within the boundaries of his face, it looks strikingly close to that pic.

3) I find the ST much more realistic even though he looks ugly

Well, if face made of beat-up metal looks more realistic to you...

But showing both in motion, it will not be surprising if most go for the clean and CG looky ST one

I'd say that in motion, that ST face would lose any chance, considering how crappily animated those characters were

Besides, the very fact that *even you* admit people would maybe chose that old man over the ST guy should tell you something about delivered promises

 

[rabidrabbit]

chap chap chap... that old man image has no visible jaggies even on the game, that screenshot is more or less what you get in game.
Maybe if you'd compare them side by side, one might find the image on tv screen less clear than that screen above.
But that is not the point, if most people cannot see any difference between them, then I'd say that image represents just what you'd see on your telly.
I really am not sure anymore if you have seen SH3 'live' at all.

 

[zurich]

Yeesh, I can't believe this conversation is still going on

Hopefully something crazily unexpected will happen in the next few days (MS buys the world, Sony discontinues PS2 for PSX, Nintendo goes the way of Martha Stewart, etc) so we have something new to talk about! This SH3/Shenmue/versus TEH WORLD is getting stale

 

[chaphack]

Maybe you cant, but i can see aliasing. Take a closer look when Mr Douglas face shakes his head when he talks to Heather. It is there. If only i have some capture device, i can highlight it to you all... :?

In motion, ST will look super clean as the images while SH3 will have aliasing. Normal people usually associate cleany clean with CGI. The lighting and textures on ST face kills SH3 easily. Maybe if they tone down the shininess, it will look tons better, much closer to the real aged man face than SH3 can hope for.

 

[chaphack]

Besides, the very fact that *even you* admit people would maybe chose that old man over the ST guy should tell you something about delivered promises

Until PS2 can do that pixel pefect super stable AAed quality graphics, as that static image, in a game....

 

[chaphack]

Oh! And why are we concentrating on just 2 closeup faces? Last i know, ST and PS2 encomposes more than just those 2 images.

 

[rabidrabbit]

Maybe you cant, but i can see aliasing. Take a closer look when Mr Douglas face shakes his head when he talks to Heather. It is there. If only i have some capture device, i can highlight it to you all... :? ...

And do you say that no other consoles (DC, xbox, GC) have the same kind of minor aliasing in games... oh please...

No console can currently hide the fact that they run at a reasonably low res.
Hell, I find aliasing even in most of my dvd movies when I view them in my 52" rptv, and still I enjoy them immensely.

 

[chaphack]

Mr rabid Mr rabit,

1) Not sure about the Cube, but Xbox has much less aliasing than PS2. Same goes with the DC. In terms of IQ, XB > DC > PS2

2) It is just to point out that the static SH3 image, is just that, a static touched up picture. Comparing to ST, the IQ simply will never match up.

 

[rabidrabbit]

Ok, I've had enough of entertaining you. Thanks you and you're welcome bye bye.

 

[notAFanB]

yes there is aliasing in that scene. they using some sort of DOF during wide shots to minimise it (quite nice actually).

Oh! And why are we concentrating on just 2 closeup faces? Last i know, ST and PS2 encomposes more than just those 2 images.

regarding shininess the current model doesn't allow for 'toning' down as you put it. also I thought we were discussing cinematics here. if you want to get technical I suppose ST could render an scene(s) with n-times the amount of detail while we're at it


EDIT:

1) Not sure about the Cube, but Xbox has much less aliasing than PS2. Same goes with the DC. In terms of IQ, XB > DC > PS2

while this is true (obviously), what I thnk rabidrabbit is refering to is Polygon edge aliasing which all 3 platforms exhibit.

where the PS2 runs into trouble is truly awful texture aliasing (due to incorrect MIPMAPS+bilinear filter I believe). this is where the designers have to find workaround/hacks.

 

[chaphack]

thought we were discussing cinematics here.

we are? I thought it was more of PS2 delievering movie quality graphics? of course along the lines of semantics, movie quality becomes real old movies and budget CGI cartoons.

if you want to get technical I suppose ST could render an scene(s) with n-times the amount of detail while we're at it

cool! can the ps2 do the same?

 

[notAFanB]

thought we were discussing cinematics here.

we are? I thought it was more of PS2 delievering movie quality graphics? of course along the lines of semantics, movie quality becomes real old movies and budget CGI cartoons.

if you want to get technical I suppose ST could render an scene(s) with n-times the amount of detail while we're at it

cool! can the ps2 do the same?

very funny.

btw I have always thought that PS2 was pegged to deliver CGI effects into the livingroom (think reboot). I'm still waiting for anyplatform (outside demos on my PC) to do this.

 

[London Geezer]

chap PLEASE take that old man pic out!!! u almost gave me a heart attack!!!

...and how exactly did this thread become a "usual" PS2 bashing thread when it started as a PSP thread????

u know, i tend to ignore thread with heavy postings from Chap in them, so i missed most of this...