PS5 Pro *spawn

Hmm I wonder if the Hardware to do PSSR is part of the GPU or extra?
Currently doing any form of FSR uses GPU resources,
If the HW for the PSSR is dedicated HW ala tensor cores in NV GPUs
it would potentially free up some of the existing GPU HW for other more traditional GPU tasks.

Even getting existing FSR quality upscaling "for free" would be a nice little boost in the games that use it.
1-2ms per frame is a significant chunk of frame time.

Of it further complicates scheduling, and does nothing with games that dont use any upscaling, but i wonder of it works that way?
 
Hmm I wonder if the Hardware to do PSSR is part of the GPU or extra?
Currently doing any form of FSR uses GPU resources,
If the HW for the PSSR is dedicated HW ala tensor cores in NV GPUs
it would potentially free up some of the existing GPU HW for other more traditional GPU tasks.
Yes its a separate hw accelerator just like the GPU
Even getting existing FSR quality upscaling "for free" would be a nice little boost in the games that use it.
1-2ms per frame is a significant chunk of frame time.
Yes this is true as well and it will get updates over the life of the pro as well.
 
Which goes back to my point, Cerny has done his homework. Its most likely the CPU+ GPU upgrades plus the hw acceleration are whats goint to enable this. I dont think Sony's hw engineers would upgrade the CPU without taking into account statistical and empirical data from past CPU calls on the base PS5. They're aiming for a target of 4K 60 upscaled using PSSR and the CPU,GPU and memory upgrades are designed around this goal(looking at the specs I'm impressed). This target has been confirmed by Tom Henderson. In addition there are rumours that devs have managed to get Jedi Survivor to run at 4K 120 on the PS5 pro devkit!!! I think Sony has done a decent job and will be vindicated when the results come out.
Native or using pssr on jedi survivor? .. if its native sony will crush Microsoft
 
Well I’m not so sure. Do you have any evidence to back up your claim or is it simply anecdotal? I mean, I can name many locked 60 fps games that you have hands and toes. I’ve played these games as well and can confirm its performance.

Every Digital Foundry video that analysis PS5 games.
 
Native or using pssr on jedi survivor? .. if its native sony will crush Microsoft
Of course not native. Every PS5 Pro game will (should) use PSSR to reconstruct to 4K. If they game is super light on the CPU (like likely Jedi Survivor) they could double the framerate from 60fps to 120fps at 1080p native (then PSSR to 4K) on Pro. Difference is 4k will be actually believable (à la DLSS) this time. But I think here the best case would be to add RT effects and at 60fps.
 
GT7 is native 4K/60, i wonder if they'll be able to go PSSR4k/60 with RT, and if PSSR is compatible with PSVR2.
Can DLSS be used for PCVR ?
Well i guess it can, but how does that look in the headset ?
 
GT7 is native 4K/60, i wonder if they'll be able to go PSSR4k/60 with RT, and if PSSR is compatible with PSVR2.
Can DLSS be used for PCVR ?
Well i guess it can, but how does that look in the headset ?
Yeh some VR stuff supports dlss, no mans sky and flight sim i've tried it. I didn't much like it in either of those and just went back to xrtoolkit and custom foveated rendering in flight sim anyway.
 
I don't see the issue sticking with Zen 2 given majority of games have 60FPS performance modes and a lot of popular titles, even 120FPS. How many games have only maximum 30FPS modes on the standard PS5? Can't recall any first party games not having a 60FPS mode? Zen 2 is still very efficient, see chart below and should be even slightly more so at 6nm. It would have been even better if they ported Zen 2 to 4nm but looks like no one is willing to pay the cost hence no real slim consoles. Would people prefer to pay say $100 more for Zen 4 operating at the same power level which would likely only give minimal gains (Maybe only single digits) and would make the console less affordable. I doubt you would get a game that can only do 30FPS due to CPU to 60FPS given the IPC difference is not that big and you see top of the range PCs also struggling on games that are problematic on PS5 to hit a locked 60FPS at 3-4x the power consumption. Developers could do a lot more to optimise than the IPC improvement would allow. The increase in memory bandwidth should help too get more out of it and be less bottlenecked. Even though Series S for example has 100MHz lower SMT clock speeds than PS5, it seems to perform a lot worse in terms of CPU limited scenarios while running a lot less detail largely probably due to memory bandwidth.

The clock speed improvement is about where it should be given AMD boosted the base clock of 5900HS 7nm by 10% for the 6nm 6900HS so 10% for the high-end PS5 seems about right and seems the sweet spot without hurting GPU performance and should clean up frame times. Hopefully they give you option to use boosted clocks for games that are not patched.

efficiency-gaming.png

I wonder if they will be using a chiplet design this time and potentially 5nm / 4nm GCD and Strix Halo is a by product of the work for the high-end PS5. That could help with form factor as they could make it either smaller than the PS5 Slim or similar size depending on the quality of the cooling solution as it should be similar in power consumption. I can't see AMD releasing a 60 CU desktop part on 6nm for the new RDNA GPUs so like Zen 2 being on 6nm, I think they would prefer to reuse IP already on existing process they originally targeted with them parts so ro save on R&D costs. They did however make a smaller RDNA 3 GPU on 6nm in the RX 7600. The RX 6800 was very efficient too so won't need to be a massive increase in power if they are indeed on 6nm for the GPU too.

Interestingly, looks like GPU clock speed is 56MHz increase over the RX 7800 XT Game Clock (60 CU RDNA 3) (2,124 MHz). The standard PS5 was also a 56MHz increase over the RX 6700 Game Clock (36 CU RDNA 2) (2,174MHz).

I don't get why people try and downplay consoles. PS5 launched with the fastest and most capable GPU AMD has ever had, no AMD consumer GPU on PC was better. The high-end PS5 will have a more technologically advanced GPU than any current AMD GPU on PC. What more do people expect for a mid-generation improvement, it is not a new generation of console. It fixes weakness of previous architecture and main advantages of going to PC have been minimised such as image quality and RT. Only a very small percentage of PC gamers going by Steam survey will have any meaningful advantage and likely gained at a considerable cost. I could see them sticking to 60 CU for standard PS6 but at above 3GHz clock speeds on 2nm process in say 2027 / 2028 if they leave it until then for a new generation. Sticking to Zen 2 will also help them if they choose to switch to ARM based CPU too for next-generation for potentially better performance per watt and ease of development if they also release a handheld before then as it should be possible to make a translation layer performant enough for backwards compatibility going by what Apple has managed.

I see another point being raised in that who would buy it but surely, the problem with this console will be, who can find it in stock to buy as it will be the most desirable console in the festive period it might release in and will stand alone as the most performant efficient gaming console given no competition this time until next-generation consoles arrive. Looks like there won't be any proper slim consoles this generation too so even less competition from cheaper models. You would have to spend a considerable amount more to get a PC as performant so it will be a performance bargain. I understand the arguments about display resolution target not really being higher but in that case, there is no point for any new generation of console or GPU to be released given most monitors and TVs will likely stick with the same resolution for a while. If standard PS5 was maxing out graphics details of all games at a locked 60FPS at native 4K, I could see that being a valid point but you see games below 1080p on PS5 so getting more image quality and smoothness out of your existing display will make this desirable. You see this in the PC space, the 7800 XT is one of the best selling GPUs too for that reason given that it provides a decent uptick in performance at an affordable price over older GPUs.

PlayStation really target the best bang for your buck parts since Mark Cerny took over and sell it close to cost which makes it so successful as on the PC side, they try and have a lot more profit margin to make new products viable. I think Sony have been fortunate too that this generation and last one, Microsoft have made consoles with substantially higher BOM without gaining any real advantage so although they are subsidising consoles at their record level, it makes it a closer match than it would otherwise have been at Sony's break even price point. Kind of crazy that the current Series X might still be around $100 more expensive to produce than the high-end PS5, die size might still be smaller. Sony can't afford to subsidise consoles like that as it would put the PlayStation division at a significant loss if they were to match Microsoft. I wonder if Sony implementing a cheap SSD solution over Microsoft's third party solution is one of the big cost savings other than chip size and less expensive cooler hence why both versions of PS5 have a sizeable advantage over their competition. They also got a big win implementing SmartShift too so having a higher power limit and being able to better use the power for their components makes it perform better in real-time rendering. Hopefully developers will start to optimise better for the console as a lot of multiplatform games are probably optimised for DX12 Ultimate first which has resulted in probably less than optimal performances in some PS5 game releases and as raw power being much higher, developers might feel less need to optimise. You see still games just using the CPU for loading and not take advantage of the I/O complex which would help in CPU limited scenarios too.

I wonder if they will call it PS5 Pro. I would prefer it if they call it Ultimate PS5 or Ultra PS5 like Ultra 64 back in the day.
 
Every Digital Foundry video that analysis PS5 games.
Huh, that’s surprising since not every video analyzed by digital foundry has frame rate issues. Seeing as DF haven’t analyzed a majority of the ps5 games, that’s a weird statement to make.
 
Of course not native. Every PS5 Pro game will (should) use PSSR to reconstruct to 4K. If they game is super light on the CPU (like likely Jedi Survivor) they could double the framerate from 60fps to 120fps at 1080p native (then PSSR to 4K) on Pro. Difference is 4k will be actually believable (à la DLSS) this time. But I think here the best case would be to add RT effects and at 60fps.
or they used frame gen ability of PSSR ala DLSS3 / FSR3
 
I don't get why people try and downplay consoles. PS5 launched with the fastest and most capable GPU AMD has ever had, no AMD consumer GPU on PC was better.

I think the consoles are great for what they are and what they cost, but this isn't really accurate. The 6900XT launched a little before the PS5 and was much, much faster and was a generation on in terms of some of its feature. Series consoles also had some newer features, though it seems final silicon appeared later than for PS5 and MS had yield issues that took time to resolve. MS had to fully support DX12U though, so going with an older none DX12U compliant design probably wasn't an option.

PS5 is still a fantastic device of course, but there are some tradeoffs that naturally come from making a huge APU and needing to have final silicon in hands of developers many months before the product launches, and having months of production ramp to stockpile millions of units. They're always going to lag behind PC to some extent.

The high-end PS5 will have a more technologically advanced GPU than any current AMD GPU on PC.

It'll have the upscaling technology for sure, but I'm curious to see just how different it is from RDNA 3 or 3.5 otherwise. PS5 managed to get RDNA 2's RT support despite being like RDNA 1 in some ways. Hopefully PS5Pro will likewise get any RT improvements that RDNA 4 will be getting down the line.

RT performance and upscaling quality are probably the current consoles' biggest weaknesses overall, and anything to improve the situation in the console market would be good.
 
I feel like Sony is making a big mistake here, unless their sole purpose for a PS5 pro is to cater to PS4/PS4Pro owner looking to upgrade. Even then, will the sales even work out? The PS5 has not seen any reduction in cost (stagnant sales) and you can bet the PS5 Pro will be at the minimum $100 more. That just doesn't look enticing for any consumer. ....And, the PS5 has not reached its full potential due to cross gen titles, which makes the realization of a PS5 pro even more ridiculous. Am I missing something here people?
 
I feel like Sony is making a big mistake here, unless their sole purpose for a PS5 pro is to cater to PS4/PS4Pro owner looking to upgrade. Even then, will the sales even work out? The PS5 has not seen any reduction in cost (stagnant sales) and you can bet the PS5 Pro will be at the minimum $100 more. That just doesn't look enticing for any consumer. ....And, the PS5 has not reached its full potential due to cross gen titles, which makes the realization of a PS5 pro even more ridiculous. Am I missing something here people?
$399 for PS5(no disc)
$499 for PS5 Pro(no disc)

I think plenty of people will stump the extra $100 for the Pro. The PS4 Pro had a larger % increase in price than this it sold fine.

It's not a terribly huge capability upgrade, but the price increase probably wont be seen as that bad, either.
 
Huh, that’s surprising since not every video analyzed by digital foundry has frame rate issues. Seeing as DF haven’t analyzed a majority of the ps5 games, that’s a weird statement to make.

They don't need to test every single game to debunk your claim.

Nearly every game they have tested on PS5 that has a 60fps mode are not a solid 60fps.
 
I feel like Sony is making a big mistake here, unless their sole purpose for a PS5 pro is to cater to PS4/PS4Pro owner looking to upgrade. Even then, will the sales even work out? The PS5 has not seen any reduction in cost (stagnant sales) and you can bet the PS5 Pro will be at the minimum $100 more. That just doesn't look enticing for any consumer. ....And, the PS5 has not reached its full potential due to cross gen titles, which makes the realization of a PS5 pro even more ridiculous. Am I missing something here people?
Nah you didn’t miss anything.

It’s a play to get the hardcore to buy the more expensive device because they can afford it; and ideally they sell their ps5 secondhand on the market and someone that can’t afford a ps5 today becomes a new user.

It’s really the challenge of today, people don’t have money. Sales are stalling out everywhere because things cost way too much and there just isn’t enough money to go around.

Margins are razor thin. It’s a bad time overall. In better economics this device would be more successful, but hard to see it being very successful in this day of age. Firstly the marketing will be interesting, as there is nothing to tie it to. Secondly, will people care enough to pay for it.

I feel like they are going to try to sell it by the spec sheet, that might be their best chance.
 
I feel like Sony is making a big mistake here, unless their sole purpose for a PS5 pro is to cater to PS4/PS4Pro owner looking to upgrade. Even then, will the sales even work out? The PS5 has not seen any reduction in cost (stagnant sales) and you can bet the PS5 Pro will be at the minimum $100 more. That just doesn't look enticing for any consumer. ....And, the PS5 has not reached its full potential due to cross gen titles, which makes the realization of a PS5 pro even more ridiculous. Am I missing something here people?
As soon as I saw the PS5 specs I was 100% certain they were going to release a PS5 pro. They created a decent cost effective base system with a 5700XT GPU and were going to create a mid gen upgrade. The only challenges have been related to chip supply, global pandemic which affected software development but as that wears off people will appreciate this strategy more. The PS5 pro is supposed to provide higher perfomance gaming compared to the base system. They're going to be using hw acceleration for resolution upscaling and their target is 4K 60 fps on the PS5 pro(This has been confirmed by Tim Henderson). So people who want to play at higher fps with the same fidelity resolution of the base PS5(4K 30) will buy the pro. As well as others who just want whatever is called a pro machine. Its a smart strategy and it will pay off later on in the year when the console is released.

The pro is going to have a lot of games available in the second half(2025-2028) of the gen which we're now in. So Crysis 4, GTA 6, Death Stranding 2, James Bond, Control 2, Max Payne remakes, etc as developers start taking advantage of the current hw will have higher frame rate gaming on the pro. Would you rather play Crysis 4 on the PS5 or the PS5 pro?? So for the best gaming experience from 2025 till 2028 when the PS6 launches, it will be the go to platform. And its not going to be expensive for Sony to produce compared to the base PS5. Besides the APU and faster memory, the rest of the system is the same. Faster memory(relative to the base PS5) is cheap, and the cost of the newer APU isnt prohibitive as well since its using a similar Zen 2 CPU(according to current leaks), the hw accelerator for upscaling and the GPU is a joint effort between AMD and Sony as well so that helps bring down the cost. So with this they wont sell it at a prohibitive price. The fact they now sell the disc drive separate means they can sell the PS5 pro at $499 or max $549 without a disc drive.

So with all this it makes so much sense.
 
I think the consoles are great for what they are and what they cost, but this isn't really accurate. The 6900XT launched a little before the PS5 and was much, much faster and was a generation on in terms of some of its feature. Series consoles also had some newer features, though it seems final silicon appeared later than for PS5 and MS had yield issues that took time to resolve. MS had to fully support DX12U though, so going with an older none DX12U compliant design probably wasn't an option.

PS5 is still a fantastic device of course, but there are some tradeoffs that naturally come from making a huge APU and needing to have final silicon in hands of developers many months before the product launches, and having months of production ramp to stockpile millions of units. They're always going to lag behind PC to some extent.



It'll have the upscaling technology for sure, but I'm curious to see just how different it is from RDNA 3 or 3.5 otherwise. PS5 managed to get RDNA 2's RT support despite being like RDNA 1 in some ways. Hopefully PS5Pro will likewise get any RT improvements that RDNA 4 will be getting down the line.

RT performance and upscaling quality are probably the current consoles' biggest weaknesses overall, and anything to improve the situation in the console market would be good.
PS5 was the first RDNA 2 GPU to launch as far as I remember and only console GPU to feature RDNA 2 clock speeds, maybe first GPU to launch as over 2GHz too. The RX 6900 XT launched the following month and is the same generation GPU. RX 6800 launched the following week of PS5 launch. PS4 Pro also debuted Vega features first. High-end PS5 might be first debut RDNA 4 features and custom stuff depending on when RDNA 4 launches.

I feel like Sony is making a big mistake here, unless their sole purpose for a PS5 pro is to cater to PS4/PS4Pro owner looking to upgrade. Even then, will the sales even work out? The PS5 has not seen any reduction in cost (stagnant sales) and you can bet the PS5 Pro will be at the minimum $100 more. That just doesn't look enticing for any consumer. ....And, the PS5 has not reached its full potential due to cross gen titles, which makes the realization of a PS5 pro even more ridiculous. Am I missing something here people?
It looks a lot more enticing than it did last generation. It looks set to one of the best selling consumer electronics of any kind of device, only Switch successor could compete in terms of demand and that might be delayed so it will be a home run for a few months provided they can produce enough of it not to sell out for long periods of time. Games are more GPU limited than CPU this generation. The GPU compute increase is more than a whole Xbox One X. It was much more easier last generation to buy a PC that could achieve higher frame rates without having to spend substantially more than a PS4 Pro for a full system. Nowadays the GPU alone costs more than a whole console and you can get significantly more stutter too and long shader compilation times in some games. It is also very hard to build a PC as quiet as a PS5.

The value proposition is great. Standard PS5 was great value at time of launch. Given cost of the console is not going down that much, it will be much less competitive with the new GPUs launching like Intel Arc Battlemage, Nvidia Blackwell and AMD RDNA 4 as it enters its fourth year. If the generation is going to last about eight years until the next one, selling PS5 still at near launch price in 2025 is not going to cut it. Hence, enter the high-end PS5 which will stand alone as the competitive game console compared to PC market until Microsoft releases their next-gen console. This will allow also Sony to extend the generation for themselves so they can make a bigger step when they are ready and not have to respond straightaway to PC market and Xbox.
 
PS5 pro getting SFS? There's a recent patent about asset aware data blah blah blah.


Looks like it could possibly be used to implement SFS. Though I'm probably reading the patent wrong. This may be something they're looking into for the multi-gpu stuff they're working on.
 
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