PS4 to be based on Cell?

[tuna]

Hiroshi Goto has an article regarding Cell in PS4 here: http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2008/0929/kaigai469.htm

Haven't have time to read it but it looks pretty interesting....

 

[22psi]

PS4 Based On Existing Cell Processor?

Japanese tech news site PC Watch is reporting that as a cost-saving measure, Sony “has begun seriously considering” basing the upcoming PlayStation 4 on the same Cell processor that currently powers the PS3.

Though citing no sources in particular, PC Watch claims that Sony is currently soliciting developer reactions to the idea. They speculate that while Sony would like to distance themselves from the Cell in the long run, at present they might do well to make use of their existing investment and expand the technical capabilities of the PS3 only moderately — a la the hardware transition from GameCube to Wii — in order to constrain further expenditure.

More:

http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2008/0929/kaigai469.htm

http://www.gamecyte.com/ps4-based-on-existing-cell-processor

 

[RobertR1]

Interesting: http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2008/0929/kaigai469.htm

"Goto Hiroshige has received PSX4 spec info from Japanese developer sources who received preliminary spec from SCEI for developer feedback(whom Goto refuses to name due to NDA).

- SCEI has sent rough PSX4 spec to 3rd party developers for feed back. Based on the description, PSX4 is a Wii-tized PSX3, no more than 2X as powerful.
- SCEI wants to beat Xbox 3 to launch. 2011 is the deadline, or sooner.
- SCEI pulled all its engineers from IBM Texas, and there is no new CELL architecture being developed. PSX4 will use same CELL architecture with improvements.
- SCEI will dump XDR and use standard JEDEC memory type(GDDR3/DDR3) for main memory. "

Stolen from Neogaf.

 

[liolio]

Do you have a proper translation, my translation (to french) is almost unreadable.

 

[Acert93]

Interesting... almost not too sure how that strategy would play out.

e.g. the Market is currently ~60% High-Tech consoles and 40% Low-Tech consoles, so will the market shift if Sony moves in this direction? Do they have some "other" sort of tech ideas (controller tech?) that would be where the console budget shifts to?

What happens if MS targets $399 with a console that is to the PS3 what the 360 is to the Wii? Sure, there are diminishing returns but that would pretty much conceed the high end market to MS. Maybe publishers want this--it would cut down on game development costs. But does going with a Cell processor with this approach even make sense then?

 

[ninzel]

Man, can't we just enjoy PS3 first?

Amen to that. It's feels like the PS3 is just hitting it's stride, and I hope they don't pull an MS and cut support early. I'm in no hurry to go out and buy another console ,unless they only moderately increase the complexity of the PS4 over the PS3 and as a result the system has STRONG and diverse software support from day one. Otherwise it's just another expensive purchase,with the inevitable slow ramp up of games.

 

[Acert93]

No, no, no... the PS3 will have a 10 year product cycle. I know, the fans have been shoving it down our throat since KH said it was so.

No PS4 until 2016!

 

[Betanumerical]

No, no, no... the PS3 will have a 10 year product cycle. I know, the fans have been shoving it down our throat since KH said it was so.

No PS4 until 2016!

Since when does a product cycle stop when another console from the same company comes out?.

 

[Crossbar]

No, no, no... the PS3 will have a 10 year product cycle. I know, the fans have been shoving it down our throat since KH said it was so.

No PS4 until 2016!

You know better than that what a product life cycle means.

To me this is no surprise at all, with every die shrink the yields will improve and at one point it does not make sense to have one SPE disabled, the same may apply to whatever redundancy is implemented on the RSX.

Why not give the developers access to those hardware assets and at the same time up the RAM as the price of memory is falling through the floor. It will not add much to the BOM, but Sony may sell it for a significant higher price than the current model and it can make up for some of the subsidies of the cheaper model.

However, I am pretty sure it will still be a Playstation 3 model (with some fancy extension to the name) and the games will be distributed on the same game disks of the current Playstation 3, the games may as well share some of the code and assets on the disk.

I wouldn´t be surprised if MS tried a similar stunt maybe just by uping the GDDR RAM and the EDRAM. That would also make a significant change, but to take full advantage of more memory they may as well have to change the physical medium to blu-ray, which means they can´t distribute it on the same medium as the current 360 games. That is why I think MS is less likely to do this, but maybe they will rely on multiple disks, DLC and the harddrive, that may also be an option. Microsoft have come up with quite a few clever solutions this generation.

 

[-tkf-]

Would be nice if Sony bet on cell again, instead of throwing everything learned out of the window.

 

[Rangers]

Seems to me this would be a disaster on all fronts. Devs dont like Cell, and it does not in general offer superior performance imo.

 

[obonicus]

Interesting... almost not too sure how that strategy would play out.

e.g. the Market is currently ~60% High-Tech consoles and 40% Low-Tech consoles, so will the market shift if Sony moves in this direction? Do they have some "other" sort of tech ideas (controller tech?) that would be where the console budget shifts to?

The ratio is shifting towards the Wii, though, so the 60-40 split might be reversed by the end of 2009.

What happens if MS targets $399 with a console that is to the PS3 what the 360 is to the Wii? Sure, there are diminishing returns but that would pretty much conceed the high end market to MS. Maybe publishers want this--it would cut down on game development costs. But does going with a Cell processor with this approach even make sense then?

MS is just as interested in the Wii's demographic as Sony. I doubt Microsoft would risk a repeat of this generation. As for publishers, I think we'll see a shift to the Wii in western games announced in 2009. The east is more wary of the Wii, but if the PS4 launches early (or just before the 360), if two of the systems are weaker, would publishers still target the one platform with higher content costs?

 

[liolio]

Hi deer moderators

wouldit be possible to paste here some of the posts of the "predict the nextgen..." thread here.
It's difficult to keep track of the conversation as different opinions are spread among those two threads.

First I don't think that sticking with the cell would be a disaster at all but I would really like to commen on RobertR1 post so I'll wait that posts have been pasted here.

 

[rabidrabbit]

Since when does a product cycle stop when another console from the same company comes out?.

It has happened...
I was expecting to see Cell in more consumer electronics, thus far it's only been in PS3 and some Toshiba laptops... Guess dedicated chips for each application still are cheaper and more (power)efficient than Cell.

A modified and upgraded Cell in PS4 sounds likely, but I think it really is a bit too early to speculate.

 

[rabidrabbit]

Surely the current uncertainty in world economics will be seen in next gen consoles too. I don't think Sony or Microsoft will be too willing to make heavy investments in new tech because they are still recovering from previous ones.
Nintendo made a wise decision this gen, was it luck or far-sightedness, who knows, but they might have better guts to invest in new tech next gen.

 

[Carl B]

Interesting: http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2008/0929/kaigai469.htm

"Goto Hiroshige has received PSX4 spec info from Japanese developer sources who received preliminary spec from SCEI for developer feedback(whom Goto refuses to name due to NDA).

- SCEI has sent rough PSX4 spec to 3rd party developers for feed back. Based on the description, PSX4 is a Wii-tized PSX3, no more than 2X as powerful.
- SCEI wants to beat Xbox 3 to launch. 2011 is the deadline, or sooner.
- SCEI pulled all its engineers from IBM Texas, and there is no new CELL architecture being developed. PSX4 will use same CELL architecture with improvements.
- SCEI will dump XDR and use standard JEDEC memory type(GDDR3/DDR3) for main memory. "

Stolen from Neogaf.

The thing is that if they're going to (G)DDR for main memory, then there has to be a re-working of the architecture on some level, due to the memory controller. If they would actually make that change in isolation to IBM (who would ostensibly benefit also)... I think we'll simply need more clarity as info dribbles out slowly across the months to really understand what is up.

 

[Arwin]

I think what Sony would probably want to know is:

- how much is backwards compatibility worth
- how much do people think they'll like/hate Cell in the next-gen, when everyone has gone massively multi-core anyway, or would they prefer to bet on Larrabee, or whatever?
- how much do people want double precision floating point?

Betting on Cell again in PS4 doesn't mean that they won't put, say, six cell processors in the thing.

I think the most important thing will remain software development - how does Cell fare in the context of other multi-core processors.

Personally, I am hoping they will try to cram as much additional power into the PS4 as they can without upping the power consumption. This to support all the physics and candy a next-gen LBP could require.

I'd think all this is wild speculation but at the same time, if they launch in 2011/12, they'll probably need to decide on the final hardware soonish?

 

[Megadrive1988]

I say bring PS4 out in 2011.

The PS3 that launched feels like it was an incomplete PS3 with a fraction of the power that it should've had in terms of CELL CPU, Nvidia GPU, RAM, and lacked highbandwidth architecture (EDRAM) that PS2 had last-gen and 360 has this gen.

The RSX GPU was patheticly weak for a late 2006 release. There were stronger PC GPUs in 2005. That was NOT the way to impress the world with supposedly the most powerful console ever created.

PS3 is the first Sony console too appear to be failing. At some point, Sony will just have to hit the reset butten. Wether that's with a technically bleeding-edge PS4, or a PS4 that's an upgraded PS3, doesn't matter (given Wii's impact), but early in the next decade Sony will need another console no matter what. Microsoft will be there, and Sony isnt gonna go away next-gen, so, bring on PS4 in 3 years.

 

[Acert93]

Since when does a product cycle stop when another console from the same company comes out?.

You know better than that what a product life cycle means.

For the record I always called the 10 year exclusive cycle FUD. When Sony initially mentioned 10 year cycles it was in the same breath as the PS1 and projections for the PS2. It was only in later KH interviews and the post-price announcement shock that Sony tried to massage consumer concerns about the high price of the PS3 and a literal 10 year cycle was floated and then defended by the Sony faithful. Yes, Sony PR did mention a literal 10 year lifespan before the PS4 launch and some believed it, hence my poking fun. An exclusive 10 year window would be like the PS3 launching next year in 2009 which may sound like a great idea (bigger & faster, BDR and HD more established, true technological distinction, time to iron out Cell and GPU issues, focus on the PS2 from 2006-2008 with a "its coming, so enjoy the PS2 until then" mantra) but leaving MS and Nintendo unchecked from 2005-2008 (4 holidays) in the new console market would have made Sony's world pretty difficult ($199 360 and the Wii-storm taking the world) and resulted in a ton of ports. With the high end PC market slowing it would be back again to Sony's internal team to justify the cost and make up the headwind the Wii360 crowd had gained. Same problem applies when looking forward, even more so as process technology will be slowing: If MS launches in 2011-2012 and Sony in 2016 the technological disparity and gradual diminishing returns would make life difficult, if not impossible for Sony. With the optical format waning as an important trojan I don't see how Sony could wait 10 years... actually, an early launch from them makes a lot of sense, especially if they leverage what they have now. Cut their losses, ala MS, ditch the bad and pick up the good at have another whack at it. I don't know if a PSiiii platform is a good idea but aiming for 2011-2012 is a good idea; Sony would blunt the incentive for devs to give MS cheap exclusives and Sony could leverage their internal studios and resources/tools developed this generation to hit the road running.

Now where were you guys 2 years ago when this 10 year exclusive cycle FUD was so actively defended

 

[eastmen]

Just the update in ram capacity alone would be a major step foward for graphics. I've been enjoying this gen since holiday 2005 and would not be upset if I can start enjoying next gen in holiday 2010 or 2011. The sooner the better I say. Five year life cycles are more than enough for the console to be the companys lead platform , let it live on as a secondary platform for years after.