PS4 Pro Speculation (PS4K NEO Kaio-Ken-Kutaragi-Kaz Neo-san)

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temesgen said:
I agree, the idea that gamers would pay 599 that far into the generation seems far fetched to me.
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I agree. The price of an uber new generation should come with the advantages of a new generation, which these new consoles won't. Hence they should be priced at an interrim level. Same price as PS4's launch for updated specs alongside a cheaper PS4 makes by far the most sense. If priced notably higher ($600), I think people buying it will be short-changed relative to expectations. It'd be the first time a $600 console wasn't $600 worth of experience relative to previous consoles (not a generational advance in pretties).
 
I think people are missing the point of Neo then. Andrew House mentioned it's for the High End experience much like the iPhone "S" version, Sony is fully aware of its value to performance ratio and certainly don't expect it to be mainstreamed like OG PS4. It's rather an option than a necessity, if it manages to capture the 10% of hardcore market then consider it a successful product. After all the R&D spent on Neo wont be nearly as much as OG PS4. Yes I'm pulling numbers out of my butt but you get what I'm saying;).
 
Grall said:
Phat PS4 had a 400W internal power supply. No problems with power, no problems with heat. You people obsess too much over this. :p
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Part of the rumor is that this (external power brick) is a possibility for the higher-end option.

*This person* never had a strong opinion about power bricks. Others sure have, though.
 
Globalisateur said:
From what I've read from the leakers, it's either 4.2tflops this year at $399 or 5.5tflops next year at $499 max
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This seems agreeable to me. The closer the two consoles are release date the closer I expect their specs to be.

But if they made a run for it this year I can't see them going forward with that other spec too.

IMO they should forgo this year and launch the 5.5. It's not about closing the gap in power, but you don't want to have to launch a PS5 shortly after Neo just to get proper native 4K games if you can wait 1 year and accomplish that


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Globalisateur said:
From what I've read from the leakers, it's either 4.2tflops this year at $399 or 5.5tflops next year at $499 max
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Personally I prefer the 4.2 option this year. Like a mentioned before, if it's 2017 just wait until 2018 and introduce a new generation with an even bigger jump.
 
McHuj said:
Personally I prefer the 4.2 option this year. Like a mentioned before, if it's 2017 just wait until 2018 and introduce a new generation with an even bigger jump.
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I don't know that it's a safe assumption that the performance of what they would be able to launch in 2018 is significantly different from what they will be able to launch in 2017. The performance improvements that are available now, enabled by the 14nm process, are likely the largest we'll see in a while.
 
mrcorbo said:
I don't know that it's a safe assumption that the performance of what they would be able to launch in 2018 is significantly different from what they will be able to launch in 2017. The performance improvements that are available now, enabled by the 14nm process, are likely the largest we'll see in a while.
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14nm will still improve and get cheaper. 28nm improved greatly over the course of it's like HPm and HPc variations (which was introduced not too long ago). I expect the same to happen for 14/16nm if it sticks around for a long time. In 2018, the economics of the process should be even more favorable and allow an even bigger die with improved performance/watt.
 
ultragpu said:
No way in hell is Sony releasing a fully fledged PS5 in 2018 lol. But then again I wonder what are people's expectation teraflops wise for a real generation leap these days?
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Nobody said they are. I said I'd rather see a PS5 in 2018 and no Neo in 2017 (or 2016 if a PS5 were coming in 2018).
 
ultragpu said:
No way in hell is Sony releasing a fully fledged PS5 in 2018 lol. But then again I wonder what are people's expectation teraflops wise for a real generation leap these days?
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If we do only get 6 teraflops at the end of 2017 then I can't see the next gen being more than 9-10 teraflops at the end of say 2019. I mean we have new GPU architecture and new process node and the boost over a already conservative 2013 PS4 is 2.3X. What are the chances we'll have 7nm, new GPU architecture and new RAM tech all come in together for the launch of the next consoles?

P.S. New here and been fascinated by the discussion of these mid gen consoles both here and over at GAF. It seems to be causing a lot of confusion and head scratching that's for sure.
 
So I'm confused. Sony has two different console designs and they can pick either one? Did they send out two different dev kits to developers?
 
Conceptually, they could be architecturally identical with devs being given the lower-end target. Then there's a nice boost to available performance (not targeted in launch games) when the final hardware releases.
 
Sony can upclock their neo all they want, MS is still gonna release a stronger scorpio. They've commited to that. Giving up on an earlier launch, and a potential holiday season to only slightly close an unavoidable gap doesn't make business sense to me. That is ofcourse, if the weaker neo can launch this year anyway. The rumor that sony wanted to focus on VR only this year also seemed very sensible.
 
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ultragpu said:
I wonder what are people's expectation teraflops wise for a real generation leap these days?
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TFLOPs are the new Ps. I am old enough to remember when One TFLOP supercomputer was going to revolutionize all kinds of modelling FEA, weather etc. A Holy Grail if you will. Now a different cooling solution for a consumer gaming console creates a One TFLOP difference.
 
McHuj said:
14nm will still improve and get cheaper. 28nm improved greatly over the course of it's like HPm and HPc variations (which was introduced not too long ago). I expect the same to happen for 14/16nm if it sticks around for a long time. In 2018, the economics of the process should be even more favorable and allow an even bigger die with improved performance/watt.
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Trying to make this as much of an apples to apples comparison as possible:

Radeon 7970 - Late 2011 - 3.79TFLOPS - 3DMark 10,690 - Max TDP 250W - die size 352mm²
Radeon 390x - Mid 2015 - 5.9TFLOPS - 3DMark 18,670 - Max TDP 275W - die size 438mm²

I don't call that improving greatly.

Edit:Actually, lest I be accused of cherry-picking, let's look at Nvidia also and add some 3DMark scores since we all know not all flops are created equal:

GeForce GTX 680 - Early 2012 - 3.09 TFLOPS - 3DMark 10,660 - Max TDP 195W - die size 294mm²
GeForce GTX 980 - Late 2014 - 4.6 TFLOPS - 3DMark 18,540 - Max TDP 165W - die size 398mm²
 
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