PS4 Pro Speculation (PS4K NEO Kaio-Ken-Kutaragi-Kaz Neo-san)

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What are you losing compared to no PS4.5 existing?

(also, it's not a gen)

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...ion-4k-neo-and-the-original-ps4-will-co-exist

More information about PS4 and NEO, nothing reassuring about the development process of PS4 and NEO. I am under the impression many things are clear on NEO side but nothing about the base version.

I don't like the idea to be a second class citizen after been a day one PS4 owner.

I prefer buy something I have more control about and I can have a good experience with it for a long time.

One funny things for example some people will be at disadvantage in online because they are PS4 owner and other will have NEO with better framerate.

With Consoles it was the promise of uniform online experience, it will not be the case anymore...
 
Also, Xbox One owners exist and like to buy games, too.

Weren't there Xbone fans on forums claiming Microsoft was gonna unleash the hidden GPU? Don't rule out that Microsoft is playing the same game and are just watching reactions from Sony leaking first. Such a Xbone4k would be right up their alley specially since they've been bold enough to jack up Halo's fps to 60fps.


Instant impulsive gratification of twittering whining fanboys? Or more like casuals...

I'm disappointed in these whiners and question if they are true console fans. Many claim to wanna own a Porsche 911 turbo, Nissan GT-R or a Ferrari (insert mindless numbers) but they'll cry to mommy about the price. Taking performance for granted.

These twitts haven't even played DSIII and Uncharted 4 yet...

I'm with Shuhei Yoshida here. And in fact I sincerely hope Sony goes balls deep with hardcore coded PS4.5 exclusives that drive graphics to the max...say a Demons Souls 2, The Last of Us 2, Killzone 4 with 64 online multiplayer with vehicles and that DICE's Frostbite also goes deep...etc.

Those are two unrelated concepts. You basically just asked if the new Ford sedan getting 5 more miles per gallon means that the 50HP boost to the engine is actually more like 75HP.

Did I just make a good car analogy?

I was thinking more about 1980s Japanese/European engine options/upgrades like say getting a trim package where the base PS4 was a SOHC Turbo and Sport PS4.5 gets DOHC Turbo Intercooler (being mindful that besides power twin cams and turbos original purpose was to improve fuel economy while boosting power as opposed to the myth that turbo was wild power)


Why would the cpu affect the fps boost?

There's some PS4 pdfs by devs (based on pre-unlocked 7th core) about the challenges and goals of reaching 30/60fps on consoles.

Meanwhile Digital Foundry has some PC gaming based video benchmarks (based on comparison architectures, ram type and overclocking) to show what type of increases happen on recent games like Witcher 3, Assassins creed, Crysis 3, Battlefront, etc where there's 5~10~20+ FPS gains on the same graphics card GPU. Only to be taken as a grain of salt however.

On consoles the CPU boost and 7th core unlocked may mean a possible standard and stable 60fps on 1080p...on 4K or a theoretical 4K PS4.5 native optimized engine it is unknown because engine/design, dev goals.

Oh snap! Straight to PS9...

Day one purchase! Two to be exact...

I wonder how far you can travel away from telepathy path before communication breaks? I don't want to get finger prints all over my balls... :no::mrgreen:

ps9-640x353.jpg

It's amazing how an advertising agency outside of Sony (not part of Sony entity or even Japan as it was a U.S. company) came up with such a mind blowing short t.v. commercial.

Then again the old 1990s Mortal Kombat 2 16bit t.v. commercial featured 1:1 videogame art style to live actor cosplay accuracy and even smoke and mirrors stage scenes that neither films ever matched. Shao Kahn costume was a joke in the films.

However after watching reaction videos of Paranormal Activity PSVR videogame...it seems we may actually be there.

One question... leaked CPU upgrade seems conservative at 2.1Ghz (from 1.6Ghz)...wouldn't 2.4Ghz or even 3.2Ghz be easily reached while cool and low power consumption benefits or are there also some arch refinements going on to provide efficient boosts?
 
No, in a modern benchmark suite with the latest drivers the GTX 970 is roughly 50% faster than the 380x on average at 1080p:

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Gigabyte/GTX_980_Ti_XtremeGaming/23.html

what part of "DX12" did you not understand?
A 970 is last gen. Quantum Break, Halo, Forza, even FF XV will use DX12 features when they come to PC.

PlayStation is about the future of gaming, not some old direct X10 or sometimes DX11 PC benchmark. Even a 1070 will suck at modern videogame technology because it will use old gen Nvidia tech, not DX12 level stuff. PC fans should educate me on this, not the other way around.
 
You're being an ass once again. DF benchmarks show PC on crusty APIs still managing to match PS3 with even a lowly GTX950 in some cases. So the DX hindrance isn't such an issue, and suggesting a notably faster GPU coupled with a larger, faster pool of RAM and a significantly faster CPU won't be able to match PS4N is pure console fanboy drivvel. That situation, consoles punching way above their weight, basically died last gen. Now they're slightly more efficient PCs. An equivalent spec PC will offer an equivalent gaming experience in terms of graphics and framerate, give or take some FPS for console efficiencies and better PC CPUs. This is proven in the gaming benchmarks this gen rather than the tea-leaves of wishful thinkers.
 
Success! I surreptitiously turned this thread into PC vs Consoles!

I'm not a troll, I'm a social experimenter for science, to improve out digital way of life, and learn more about triggers. The potency of the word "efficiency" is 98.6%. We must avoid this word from now on.

*smoke grenade*
*disappears*
 
One question... leaked CPU upgrade seems conservative at 2.1Ghz (from 1.6Ghz)...wouldn't 2.4Ghz or even 3.2Ghz be easily reached while cool and low power consumption benefits or are there also some arch refinements going on to provide efficient boosts?

Wait a minute! This could be a trap Sony is meticulously building against Microsoft. They don't want to make the same mistake they did 3 years ago with their conservative and ridiculously slow 1.6 Ghz CPU. It was easy for Microsoft to beat them at 1.75ghz.

Now this time they want to trick Microsoft with this controlled leak. Why would they even divulge CPU frequencies this time? This should be top secret information. GPU is OK because they know Microsoft can't beat them here, but they could beat them with the CPU. So they announce a ridiculously low number, Spencer is thinking, 2.1ghz? LOL, OK we are going to overclock our XB1.5 to 2.3ghz just in order to beat Sony and at least win this PR battle, again.

Surprise my dear Spencer! Sony announce at the last minute that they can finally have better yields so they can now clock the CPU at 3ghz!
 
what part of "DX12" did you not understand?
A 970 is last gen. Quantum Break, Halo, Forza, even FF XV will use DX12 features when they come to PC.

PlayStation is about the future of gaming, not some old direct X10 or sometimes DX11 PC benchmark. Even a 1070 will suck at modern videogame technology because it will use old gen Nvidia tech, not DX12 level stuff.

Wow, I see your predilection for talking absolute bollocks doesn't end with VR headsets. You do realise that the 970 supports more of the current DX12 featureset than any AMD current AMD architecture, right? And writing off the as yet unreleased Pascal architecture as "old gen Nvidia tech" is simply beyond ludicrous. I'm going to save this post to replay back to you when the first Pascal vs Polaris reviews land.

There have been a tiny handful handful of games released so far with DX12 support (which are in reality DX11 or lower games with DX12 patched in) all of which are running on early, immature drivers. Some of those games - Hitman in particular - strongly favour AMD regardless of whether DX11 or DX12 is used. While others (Gears of War for example) favour nvidia. There's no where near enough evidence presented by those 6 games to gauge the future capability of Maxwell in native DX12 games, let alone Pascal which hasn't even been released yet.

http://techfrag.com/2016/04/09/amd-vs-nvidia-quantum-break-analysis/

Not even your hypothetical Nvidia 1080 will be able to compete with PS4.5, not in modern DX12-level games.

This is one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever had the displeasure of reading on B3D.

Even though QB does admittedly heavily favour AMD, the 380x doesn't even begin to approach the level of performance required to match a 980Ti, nevermind the 1080 which is predicted to be significantly faster:

http://gamegpu.com/action-/-fps-/-tps/quantum-break-test-gpu
 
I'm still not very comfortable with naming the next nvidia card 1080. It reminds me of 1080p and that's really not what the card should be associated with.

/off topic
 
what part of "DX12" did you not understand?
A 970 is last gen. Quantum Break, Halo, Forza, even FF XV will use DX12 features when they come to PC.

PlayStation is about the future of gaming, not some old direct X10 or sometimes DX11 PC benchmark. Even a 1070 will suck at modern videogame technology because it will use old gen Nvidia tech, not DX12 level stuff. PC fans should educate me on this, not the other way around.

Game consoles work with the resources they have and if code is optimized/customized (dev tools are not really based on the Dx including xbox as they can do extra features)

I feel that PC gaming parts comparisons api comparisons are like a raw reference point.

On PC versions however it's no secret that Square Enix has been targeting DirectX12 with their tech demo presentations. I also suspect that Gears single player campaign will be a showcase for UR4.

Anyway we should petition Sony to add implement a full hardware SATA-III 6GB/s controller chip to seriously kill throughput loading concerns and draw a further line to any whining.

As recently as early this 2016 year 512GB SSDs have been reaching average sale prices of $120~$140 USD while 1TB SSDs have been also becoming something of reaching miracle sales prices under $300 USD.

With fierce SSD market competition, a 4TB SSD should be (with holiday sales specials) a reachable goal that won't break the bank.

I don't expect neither Sony or Microsoft from packing in an SSD but with prices coming down and console hardware revised refresh they have...HAVE to include SATA-III finally regardless of diminishing returns...at home in single player campaigns it would be a huge boost and win.

The overall hardware that we know about kinda makes me think of the old NEC Super GraphiX... which btw the PC-Engine Duo had many upgrade peripherals that were properly supported (minus competition sales versus Super GraphX)

I recently found out that internally Nintendo didn't want even their first party devs to require the 4MB expansion pack on Nintendo 64...shocking because at least three big games managed to push that and large cartridge Rom size...and those games were million sellers.

I feel it's irrelevant that there's 40 million PS4s...there's gonna be a large number of games and eventually people are gonna want and need that Kaio Ken Kutaragi Kaz power up!!

We might even get "Hyper-Modo" games (Mobile Fighter G-Gundam reference ;) )
 
Wait a minute! This could be a trap Sony is meticulously building against Microsoft. They don't want to make the same mistake they did 3 years ago with their conservative and ridiculously slow 1.6 Ghz CPU. It was easy for Microsoft to beat them at 1.75ghz.

Now this time they want to trick Microsoft with this controlled leak. Why would they even divulge CPU frequencies this time? This should be top secret information. GPU is OK because they know Microsoft can't beat them here, but they could beat them with the CPU. So they announce a ridiculously low number, Spencer is thinking, 2.1ghz? LOL, OK we are going to overclock our XB1.5 to 2.3ghz just in order to beat Sony and at least win this PR battle, again.

Surprise my dear Spencer! Sony announce at the last minute that they can finally have better yields so they can now clock the CPU at 3ghz!

I wonder if the CPU is also 14nm? I did post and do believe that Gigahertz clock speed is irrelevant to architecture design and refinements (but I'm also a bit a of a power monger in consoles...refinements+clock bumps = censored eroticism of technology.

With GPUs unless Nvidia is also trying to make offers too I bet that it's also a bit irrelevant because AMD would prefer to get those contracts. (Win win for them)

AMDs bad decision making on their CPU business in the last six years have cost them... the console contracts help.

I just hope Nintendo NX is getting a top GPU and that AMD isn't wimping out as I only blame AMD for not trying to give Nintendo a RV790XT GPU die shrunk to 28nm for cool and quiet polygon/resolution crunching on Wii U.

Yeah a console refresh arms race is definitely what we need. That way whining about BC or taking it for granted won't be an issue.
 
Why would the cpu affect the fps boost?

The time between frames dictates how long the system has to do all of the processing both (CPU and GPU) that has to be done to create and support that next frame. By moving from 30fps to 60fps you reduce this time from 33.3ms to 16.7ms. I'm fairly certain the relatively modest (compared to the GPU upgrade) CPU upgrade means that while we will see some games show moderately improved framerates what the Neo is mostly going to deliver is higher resolution, better LOD on textures, quality upscaling to 4K...basically everything that will make games look better on a 4K TV short of actually rendering the game in 4K.

Oh, and Neo games will probably have AF turned on. :p
 
I really don't think an excessive amount of power say like a 980 ti level is needed for PS4 Neo, it doesn't need to render at 4k or 1440p, it doesn't need downsampling or any of those Nvidia Gameworks crap, all it needs is to make sure every game runs at minimum 1080p, stable framerate, good AA, decent resolution on effects, good VR support and a few more extra eye candies here and there, then you'll be set for the rest of the gen. Even if you couple it with a Titan X it's not gonna feel like a generation leap as long as you're chained to OG PS4's support. Personally this is a brilliant idea from Sony, they're catering for everyone's needs and no one is missing out on the bread and butter.
 
Jaguar wasn't designed for super high clock speed. If they're able to get 2,1 Ghz out of a shrink then I'll take it. I do wonder if it would be of benefit if they beefed up the AVX support in the CPU. Are there cases where beefier FPU on the CPU side would be a better choice than GPU compute?
 
1 AMD has an architecture better suited for DX12
2 AMD cards with less theoretical FLOPS perform better than NVIDIA cards in DX12
3 console uses AMD architecture
4 current and future console videogame development has more in common with DX12 than the old NVIDIA optimised engines


5 "but NVIDIA can't write drivers!! Once they learn how to, NVIDIA will beat AMD at DX12"
6 no games use DX12

7 PS4.5 will have +4 TFLOP of AMD DX12 architecture

8 PC fans want to believe +4 TFLOP AMD will not match a 970 card at DX12


9 this is no console war, it's ONLY about AMD having DX12 level architecture
 
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