PS3 Under $400 in Japan?

[Titanio]

Assuming this isn't the same old Sony song and dance they always do. The PS2 was supposed to be "more than a gaming machine" as well.

Sony doesn't get the benefit of the doubt from me anymore, they are always so full of crap(i.e. false promises, over-exagerations), so I'll believe it when I see it.

From 2000:

"Kutaragi sees PS2 as Sony's Trojan horse. The idea is that consumers will bring the device into their living rooms to play WipeOut and Crash Bandicoot and end up using it for all kinds of broadband entertainment. If everything goes according to Kutaragi's plan, PlayStation will lead Sony in a transformation from a producer of games, gadgets, CDs and movies to a "broadband delivery company." Future versions of the console will still give you games, but also music, online shopping, even interactive services. Already Sony has signed a deal with J.P. Morgan to deliver home banking through the PS2.

To handle functions beyond game playing, Sony has beefed up the PlayStation2 to near-PC strength, embedding a 300MHz processor. Other companies are pursuing a similar strategy. Microsoft's Xbox, targeted for release in late 2001, is a game console on the outside, but inside it's a full-scale Internet appliance, with a hard drive and a 650MHz Pentium III processor that makes it twice as fast as the PS2.


But Kutaragi isn't standing still. He's already at work on -- that's right -- PS3, a much stronger and, more significantly, stealthier PlayStation. "PS3 will totally disappear as a console, as a shape," he says. Sony may even cease making boxes altogether and instead sell PlayStation3 chips to other game-machine makers for use in their own units."


WTF? PS3 may totally dissapear as a shape? PS2 does home banking? KK will promise anything...

Look, it's quite simple. PS3s won't sell in isolation. They'll sell games, they'll sell Bluray movies. That much is undeniable (unless you believe they'll take out that Bluray drive and avoid things like microtransactions entirely). And it'll probably sell more if Sony is wise. Sony makes money on all of that. Looking at the loss on hardware in isolation and saying "sony will go bankrupt" is the point I am arguing against. It's like razors and razor blades, starting out at least, and Sony can sell a lot of different types of razor blade through PS3.

And for that matter, PS2 sold more than just hardware too (games/dvd movies). What I'm talking about here isn't a vast leap beyond that on the lower, more conservative end.

 

[Platon]

i'm sure they will break even or have a very small loss there.
i think the loss will be much smaller compared to the ps2 launch

How do you recon?

Complaired to the PS2, the PS3 is much more heavily packed with new tech. The PS2 had its EE and that was about it. The PS3 has the Cell, it has the RSX, nothing similar in the PS2, it has the BRD, not even close to the DVD that PS2 came with, alhtough quite new DVD was a very mature tech when the PS2 came along. Not to mention all the other stuff, broadband connections, wireless etc...

 

[mckmas8808]

Look, it's quite simple. PS3s won't sell in isolation. They'll sell games, they'll sell Bluray movies. That much is undeniable (unless you believe they'll take out that Bluray drive and avoid things like microtransactions entirely). And it'll probably sell more if Sony is wise. Sony makes money on all of that. Looking at the loss on hardware in isolation and saying "sony will go bankrupt" is the point I am arguing against. It's like razors and razor blades, starting out at least, and Sony can sell a lot of different types of razor blade through PS3.

And for that matter, PS2 sold more than just hardware too (games/dvd movies). What I'm talking about here isn't a vast leap beyond that on the lower, more conservative end.

I think it's sad that some people can't understand this concept Titanio. The PS3 could easily be under $400 if Sony really wanted it to. From building their own fabs to, pushing their blu-ray tech, to banking on the CELL to be scalable and able to sell to other consumers Sony has no reason to sell it over $400.


Think people think.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

From 2000:

"Kutaragi sees PS2 as Sony's Trojan horse. The idea is that consumers will bring the device into their living rooms to play WipeOut and Crash Bandicoot and end up using it for all kinds of broadband entertainment. If everything goes according to Kutaragi's plan, PlayStation will lead Sony in a transformation from a producer of games, gadgets, CDs and movies to a "broadband delivery company." Future versions of the console will still give you games, but also music, online shopping, even interactive services. Already Sony has signed a deal with J.P. Morgan to deliver home banking through the PS2.

There's a few key points here...

1) King Kenny has his vision, but if the parent company didn't share it he'd be stifled. SCE itself wouldn't be in a strong position to structure and implement a full content service. From the same article

Kutaragi faces rivals inside and outside Sony. The company's famously territorial music, movie and electronics units are furiously pursuing their own -- not necessarily complementary -- strategies.

It seems Harrison is more sympathetic to KK's ideas.

2) A broadband delivery platform needs broadband connections. Back then there weren't many. Only about now is it becoming mainstream. Sony weren't the only company to chase the livingroom internet dream, and none of the others succeeded either for the same reasons.

3)

Future versions of the console will still give you games, but also music, online shopping, even interactive services.

Does this reference PS2, or the PlayStation brand? Regards Online Banking, again this isn't the first time a company has had an idea that hasn't panned out, and as is business you have to talk up your ideas to sell them. It'd be stupid for KK to say 'we want to add these internet features, but it could all go pear shaped. Chances are the broadband infrastructure won't grow as quick as it needs and we might hit some serious snags on the software front. Hell anything could go wrong really. We've got these aspirations but maybe they'll amount to nothing.' That's a realistic attitude for any business venture, but a stupid public front to pose. You need to prove to the masses you're serious, and if it doesn't work it doesn't work. Would you really want to fly in a plane when the advertising brochure said 'it's got lots of security features, although accidents do happen. Chances are slim you'll have an accident but realstically, planes fall out of the sky all the time. We do our best but sometimes one's best just isn't good enough'?

4) Big thinkers like KK talk with an air of the fantastic and unrealistic, but that's how they think. He's dreaming, and telling us of his dream with the excitement and enthusiam and fanciful imagery that he sees himself. Dreams don't always come true, but there he is still dreaming and pushing. I'd say KK's vision has always been there. He hasn't made it happen yet, but he won't stop trying. He'll offer all these ideas for PS3, maybe which won't amount to anything because the best laid plans of mice and men gang aft aglay, but the sincerity is there. And I think now he actually has the rest of the systems in place, and apparently the support of the parent company, that if it is going to happen it'll start this next gen.

 

[Titanio]

I'm should clarify that I'm not making the argument that PS3 should be no more than $400. Simply that revenue/loss on hardware is simply one part of the puzzle in terms of the financials relating to a system, and that ultimately it's the "soft" side - be it games, movies whatever that'll be really driving revenue. It's the way with every system, but obviously the more channels you open up in terms of content, the more flexibility you have. Sony has some advantages here (if they'd only get their arses in gear and do so, beyond Bluray movies - under Stringer I'm a little more hopeful he'll get everyone to co-operate).

 

[Mefisutoferesu]

Not that I have much to say, but one thing to take into account is PS3 is being built on a very mature 90nm process, PS2 was built on, at the time, a very cutting edge immature process. That allow should be a good economic boon to PS3 relative to the PS2.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Look, it's quite simple. PS3s won't sell in isolation. They'll sell games, they'll sell Bluray movies. That much is undeniable (unless you believe they'll take out that Bluray drive and avoid things like microtransactions entirely). And it'll probably sell more if Sony is wise. Sony makes money on all of that. Looking at the loss on hardware in isolation and saying "sony will go bankrupt" is the point I am arguing against. It's like razors and razor blades, starting out at least, and Sony can sell a lot of different types of razor blade through PS3.

And for that matter, PS2 sold more than just hardware too (games/dvd movies). What I'm talking about here isn't a vast leap beyond that on the lower, more conservative end.

Oh I have no issue with what you're saying, all that is very true. PS3 pushes blu-ray, it pushes CELL, these will hopefully pay-off in the end for Sony.

My issue is with anything beyond that, sure PS3 will drive BR sales, but all this stuff about it being more than a gaming machine, the CELL-centric storage system, linking multiple cell's together, streaming HD content to the HDD etc etc.

Shifty - It's fine to say KK has big dreams, and whatever, but IMO they've never ever delivered anything but a gaming system, when all's said and done, and all teh dust/hype clears, you have a game system, nothing more nothing less.

They've just lost all credibility to me, making such lofty promises in the past, and not delivering ANY of them, so I'm just under the opinion that when I see it with my own 2 eyes I'll believe it.

 

[fireshot]

in japan, Kutaragi told watchimpress that PS3 will be around the same price as PS2. PS3 will also see less frequent pricecuts.

frankly this comes as no surprise, 360 is already 40k yen today, PS3 40k yen by spring06 can be done.

most of the components are in the same ballpack. wifi/ports are small cost drivers. BDRom is ps3 hdd. sony has their own factories so that helps them to save some. sony may absorb more costs as they have to play catchup. 360 accessories could be lower.

I will more surprised if PS3 is us500-600! that is getting console jacked by a first generation BDrom!

 

[one]

IMO they've never ever delivered anything but a gaming system, when all's said and done, and all teh dust/hype clears, you have a game system, nothing more nothing less..

PSP is for you, then. In its versatile functions, it has a web browser with JavaScript engine which may be usable for net banking if a bank website doesn't kick out non-mainstream browser users. It's very probable that PS3 will have a full web browser while what MS can put on Xbox 360 stays crippled MSN Explorer without IE/Outlook functions at best.

 

[EricVonZipper]

Well as long as it's under 1,000$ I'm buying it.

But lets add up some figures:

*************WARNING HIGHLY SPECULATIVE NUMBERS ******************
Per -> PS3

60$ for the RSX (wonder what sort of deal nVidia cooked up?)
70$ for the Cell (IBM is teh rich $!)
90$ for the Blu-Ray HD (could be cheaper? or.......?)
60$ for memory + motherboard, power supply, case, packaging, manual (Quality parts....or?)
80$ R&DCell, Fabrication, flex io R&d, RSX R&D, marketing, ect....(research and development ALWAYS kills you)
40$ overhead ,labor(always a ball-buster ) , shipping & delivery, Advertising, ect......

Whats that 400$?

I think Sony could break even......but I think everything must fall into place.

 

[mckmas8808]

in japan, Kutaragi told watchimpress that PS3 will be around the same price as PS2. PS3 will also see less frequent pricecuts.

frankly this comes as no surprise, 360 is already 40k yen today, PS3 40k yen by spring06 can be done.

I'm quoting this just because too many people still till this day know this. It's very sad. As a matter of fact I'm going to post it over and over until regulars here know, understand, and acknowledge it.

in japan, Kutaragi told watchimpress that PS3 will be around the same price as PS2. PS3 will also see less frequent pricecuts.

 

[Alpha_Spartan]

B3D is just filled with scoops lately! So what will it really be Alpha_Spartan?

If Sony sells the same PS3 they advertised at E3 for $400, I'll cut my left nut off and mail it to you.

 

[Kb-Smoker]

If Sony sells the same PS3 they advertised at E3 for $400, I'll cut my left nut off and mail it to you.

you know that going to the sig...

 

[Tap In]

I think it's in sony's best interest to hint that the PS3 will be around $299; surreptitiously enlisting online fans to spread the word, trying to get people to hold out for the cheaper yet "better" solution (PS3).

Fact is, I don't see how A) they can put out a machine as described on paper at E3 for less than $400 (maybe even more) and B) how they can afford to look like the cheaper unit when sitting next to X360 at market.

 

[Trawler]

Fact is, I don't see how A) they can put out a machine as described on paper at E3 for less than $400 (maybe even more) and B) how they can afford to look like the cheaper unit when sitting next to X360 at market.

Maybe they could go the MS route and release two SKUs? Perhaps a PSthree? They could make a lot of savings by cutting back on all the IO ports and perhaps replacing the BDROM with a standard DVD drive.

 

[Metalgearih]

If Sony sells the same PS3 they advertised at E3 for $400, I'll cut my left nut off and mail it to you.

Start investing in a good blade. According to XE.com 40,000 as of today equals to US$347, not $400. So if this rumor is true, you know what you promised the other dude.

 

[mckmas8808]

Fact is, I don't see how A) they can put out a machine as described on paper at E3 for less than $400 (maybe even more) and B) how they can afford to look like the cheaper unit when sitting next to X360 at market.

Tap In it's one thing to think with your opinion that Sony isn't going to launch less than $400, but it's just plain careless to not know how it can be possible. You are too smart to make a comment like that. Don't you see that if Sony put in the money that they can make back from the CELL being in the PS3 (i.e. they save money on making CELL chips due to defected PS3 chips), they will make millions apon millions due to the PS3 pushing Blu-ray, and seeing that the PS2 sold more than the PSone they could be setting their price based on the PS3 selling more than the PS2, and the PS3 is on a more mature 90nm process line. And they have their own fabs. Few middle men.

So stop acting like you can phatom how it can be possible. B3D has already taught you this. Now will it come true we don't know. But you should know how it's possible.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Maybe they could go the MS route and release two SKUs? Perhaps a PSthree? They could make a lot of savings by cutting back on all the IO ports and perhaps replacing the BDROM with a standard DVD drive.

And how would you play Blu-Ray games then... Do you reckon that this PSthree would only be compatible with some early releases. LOL.

 

[fastasleep]

Sony will engage in a FUD campaign against the 360. As for the ps3 being cheap, I see little evidence in sony's actions to support such a conclusion. The ps2 has been stuck at a $149 price point for a long time and analyst predictions of a $99 ps2 this xmas look to be nothing more than wishful thinking. Rather than decontenting the psp to create a more consumer friendly $199 price point, sony is doing the exact opposite in creating a giga pack psp and raising the price point to $299.

Now, we have sony supporters claiming that sony will bring in a ps3 at an aggressive price point. If sony is a comfortable bringing out a $299 psp package, then I can see them being comfortable releasing a ps3 for $499 and above. I've bought sony products a long while, and sony is not a bargain basement company. They do not seek to engage in cut-throat price wars. Rather they look to seek a premium for their proprietary technology and the ps3 will be no different. Sony doesn't give away their products. Currently, they're the most expensive console on a feature basis and I don't expect that to change in the future.

 

[Tap In]

Tap In it's one thing to think with your opinion that Sony isn't going to launch less than $400, but it's just plain careless to not know how it can be possible. You are too smart to make a comment like that. Don't you see that if Sony put in the money that they can make back from the CELL being in the PS3 (i.e. they save money on making CELL chips due to defected PS3 chips), they will make millions apon millions due to the PS3 pushing Blu-ray, and seeing that the PS2 sold more than the PSone they could be setting their price based on the PS3 selling more than the PS2, and the PS3 is on a more mature 90nm process line. And they have their own fabs. Few middle men.

So stop acting like you can phatom how it can be possible. B3D has already taught you this. Now will it come true we don't know. But you should know how it's possible.

oh I never said it was a fact that it couldn't happen, I said it was a fact that I couldn't see how.

But I'm really not that smart, so I'll take your word for it that it IS possible.