[PS3] Uncharted 2

But if that 1% is constantly in your face during the entirety of the game, then it can be a problem.

However, until the game is actually released there's no way to tell if those will be a persistent problem or not.

Pausing everytimg you do a jump/roll could be distracting. I would hope they would fix that before release.

Same goes for shadow popup happening constantly. Again, I would hope they would fix that before release.

And again character shadows disconnected with the characters casting them would be a major distraction. And same here, I would hope they fix it before release.

I think the problem in many threads like this is that some people have a tendency to present their Opinions as Facts. Or word it in such a way that people feel like they are presenting their Opinions as Facts.

Even if he's nitpicking at least he's providing concrete examples of what he finds "wrong."

Likewise, some people seem to have this inner urge to word things in such a way as to try to make someone else look like an idiot as if that in some way makes their opinion more valuable or "correct."

Regards,
SB
That 1% wont be the only thing in your face constantly (assuming that it WILL be in your face constantly). Hell it may be in front of your face and still dont even notice it.

There are things to find wrong in every game. No matter how good it may look. The minor flaws arent enough to make them visually disappointing. Its acceptable to pinpoint some flaws but it doesnt sound right if they are used as examples to claim that the overall graphical achievement is disappointing based only on those

Uncharted 2 based on that video achieves so much that it is not right at all to ignore everything else only to rely on that 1% and deem it a disappointment.

There is this tendency as well to try too much to nitpick and generalize about the whole visual package of a certain game. This certainly doesnt sound logical by others when this happens for one particular game while the flaws are ignored for another by the same person.

I dont want to bring other games into the discussion but in this case I think it is needed not for comparison reasons, but to point why this negative generalization regarding U2 doesnt sound right.


For example there are so many things wrong in Resident Evil 5 too. The most notable observations are related to the collision detection and repeated animations. In many cases your character will follow very specific animation paths that dont quite match whats actually going on on screen. Like in some instances if I press the assistance button to help my partner and my character isnt in the right angle, it will unnaturally rotate to the right angle while performing the animation (talk about floating). Often some parts of one character can pass through the parts of another. Shadows on characters may often appear low resolution. Shadows and lighting are mostly static. The chapters I played so far confined me in narrow spaces. Also in terms of physics it is almost identical to Resi4. There is no rag doll physics. When you shoot at an exploding barrel the enemies around it will use very few specific predefined animations (which seemed to be imported directly from 4). It wont matter most of the time if they explode and there is a wall next to them. They will simply follow that predefined animation. Almost everything basically is non-interactive and lifeless and limited to predefined animations.

I can write a whole essay of technical and visual flaws for every game I have even if they are critically acclaimed to be the best looking in the industry.

Are they disappointing? No.

Uncharted 2 based on what I saw is a visually very complex game. The more complex it is the higher the possibilities to notice something in some areas that doesnt perform perfectly. For example in almost every game that uses rag doll physics for enemies you will see sometimes a dead body get stuck into a wall, or move like it has spasms even though it is just a lifeless corpse. This happens in Gears 2 as well. And there are also some animation flaws in the cover system if you want to nitpick that too. You will notice it sometimes when you jump above some walls or when your character slides on covering places as if there is some kind of magnet and wheels on Marcus shoes.

Does it look great? Does it play well? Does it execute its visual art and technical work great? Yes.
 
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In float.gif, it looks like they are playing around with shadow bias and/or offsetting models a bit during the shadow passes. That sometimes helps get rid of 'shadow acne' (ugly shadow artifacts), but it looks like they have them biased a touch too much. Popin.gif might also be occurring due to this same shadow bias issue. They are probably scrambling to get a good E3 build ready and are willing to live with that small shadow gap in place of other artifacts that may look worse at this stage. Either way, I'm sure that shadow gap will be fixed by release.
 
When it comes to animation, Show 09, Heavy Rain and Grand Theft Auto IV are at the top of the pack, GTA IV especially. (that game is probably a more impressive animation feat since it is almost entirely dynamic. Show 09 and Heavy Rain simply have high quality motion captured animation.)

I had understood that Euphoria was only used in places where mocap wasn't possible, mostly because procedural animation just isn't there yet.
 
Perhaps we do need an official lexicon entry to enable discussion about PR shots without these same arguments arising?

That's what I'd call them. PR Shots. Ie intended for print magazines, etc. Bullshots are those that have been doctored - and by nature are harder to prove.

Otherwise. The video looks very nice. They have struck a nice balance with their graphics. The lighting especially, it's good to see developers who understand gamma correction :mrgreen: And no excessive post processing.

However, it still looks like the same game. Which I guess I find underwhelming. Perhaps I didn't play the original far enough, but the first game just felt like a trek through pretty environments shooting at waves of characterless enemies.
Not really my thing.
 
The problems that those gifs show are very much there, guys. Even I saw them in the Gamersyde video, especially the jerk in the jump(coz I didn't notice a jerk in a sideroll in Drakes Fortune) and the floating character especially (since I am a lighting artist, my eyes look for detached shadows).

That sometimes helps get rid of 'shadow acne' (ugly shadow artifacts), but it looks like they have them biased a touch too much. Popin.gif might also be occurring due to this same shadow bias issue. They are probably scrambling to get a good E3 build ready and are willing to live with that small shadow gap in place of other artifacts that may look worse at this stage.

That seems to be correct, that is why only small objects' shadows popin while others are already there. They must have set a distance from camera, within which the bias would be less.

Its a what, alpha build? The problems are bound to be there guys! So, chill ! Considering what we got on our consoles with Drake's fortune, this will only turn out better (I hope).

But calling a spade a spade should be okay guys. If the footage has problems as of now, well, it does. Lets nitpick and see what needs to be improved ! rather than arguing whether its there or not.

I think the whole problem started coz Scofield compared the graphics to RE5. Personally I didn't like the RE5 graphics, Mostly due to the black crush and , well, I guess the I haven't played the game, just the demo, so I shouldn't comment. But Scofield, animations in RE5 are too repeated and limited for it to even qualify to be compared. UC engine is all about combining multiple animations to create a fresh one each time.
 
I like that Drake's animation while climbing around looks a lot less like a cross between a superhero and a young monkey, and more like someone who actually has to work for each grab and jump. It's a big improvement. The (canned lol) animation of the bus driving by is weak, though. Anyway, the game is shaping up pretty good - still looking forward to it and still trying not to see too much about it, though I'm sure it's going to be hard.
 
I like that Drake's animation while climbing around looks a lot less like a cross between a superhero and a young monkey, and more like someone who actually has to work for each grab and jump. It's a big improvement. The (canned lol) animation of the bus driving by is weak, though. Anyway, the game is shaping up pretty good - still looking forward to it and still trying not to see too much about it, though I'm sure it's going to be hard.

Yeah I agree it seems like it was pointless who would drive in that speed through tight rugged corridors.
 
I've come to notice the gameplay's lighting quality is now pretty much on par with the cutscene's, anyone else disagree?
 
I love the stealth sections shown in the gameplay vid. When he whacks that guy against the wall - I was like "Wow!". And seeing his stealth stance as he tried to be quiet, slipping between covers (even showing he was trying to be quiet in his facial expressions) I was very excited by the gameplay possibilities.

Slipping stealthfully from cover to cover has never quite be implemented like that....sure you could do it before, but that his animations are targeted towards that in this stance just looks great.
 
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I don't know what they did to their lighting engine, but it's paid up big time. It really gives a CGIsh look/feel to the game. (The part where he climbs the wall and gets near the toilet before the floor collapses looks really like some CGI stuff)... Oh, and the animations are astonishing ! I was really blown away by the segment where after slamming that bold guy on the wall, he starts moving between covers : His body was behaving naturally, and the transitions were excellent... Very, very impressive stuff IMO ! :smile:
 
Okay, I've roughly hacked back some of the noise - the cross-game comparisons and general 'how dumb are you for thinking what you think?!?!' type posts. Sorry for any collateral damage.

Let's make it clear that it is not a criminal nor moral offence to be a little overexcited for something and tend to use hyperbole like 'this is the best game ever!' Such remarks are clearly not objective and should not be treated as such. People often speak with exaggerated references; how many times have I heard 'everybody says...' where 'everybody' means a handful of people who cared to express an opinion?! People writing in the vernacular should not be taken literally.

In reference to this thread, someone saying 'this is the best looking console game ever' is not a cue to go into an analysis of every game ever made to find the definitive, scientifically accurate best-ever looking game. You may feel the need to chime in with your own enthusiasm, or to quietly disagree with observations about where you feel this game needs improvements. There is no need to call someone wrong on the subjective matters though, nor to keep repeating the same arguments in the hopes the opposition will change their mind.

This discussion could have been held a lot better. Let's try again shall we, remembering this is a Game thread in the Game forum, and debate is principally about what the game will be like, what you look forward to, what you want changed, how it looks etc. Appropriate comparisons with other games (such as 'animation techniques in open-environment games') require a separate thread in either the Console or Console Tech forum, depending on how technical you want to go.
 
Shifty - Would you have a problem with me reposting my thoughts ref: Bullshots? Perhaps that would be a discussion better suited for it's own thread?
 
Okay, I've roughly hacked back some of the noise - the cross-game comparisons and general 'how dumb are you for thinking what you think?!?!' type posts. Sorry for any collateral damage.

Let's make it clear that it is not a criminal nor moral offence to be a little overexcited for something and tend to use hyperbole like 'this is the best game ever!' Such remarks are clearly not objective and should not be treated as such. People often speak with exaggerated references; how many times have I heard 'everybody says...' where 'everybody' means a handful of people who cared to express an opinion?! People writing in the vernacular should not be taken literally.

In reference to this thread, someone saying 'this is the best looking console game ever' is not a cue to go into an analysis of every game ever made to find the definitive, scientifically accurate best-ever looking game. You may feel the need to chime in with your own enthusiasm, or to quietly disagree with observations about where you feel this game needs improvements. There is no need to call someone wrong on the subjective matters though, nor to keep repeating the same arguments in the hopes the opposition will change their mind.

This discussion could have been held a lot better. Let's try again shall we, remembering this is a Game thread in the Game forum, and debate is principally about what the game will be like, what you look forward to, what you want changed, how it looks etc. Appropriate comparisons with other games (such as 'animation techniques in open-environment games') require a separate thread in either the Console or Console Tech forum, depending on how technical you want to go.

I love you, like moderator i mean...jeje
 
My linked shot had visible aliasing on Drake's hands and in other places. Would you prefer I draw an arrow to every aliased portion of that ss?

You're both looking at and talking about two different screenshots so I'm not sure on the relevance to that line of discussion.


Let's stop with the sarcasm please. Discussion goes nowhere with condescension. I'd like to think we can have more civil discussions instead of antagonizing one another. If you disagree with someone, there are better ways to make it known without resorting to crap back & forth pot shots that do little to discuss the game at hand.
 
rofl, this thread is having a tough time progressing!

Back to the topic: I'm excited to see the game moving to multiple locales. I'm kind of curious to see how many we'll visit. We know we'll be in the mountains, and later in an urban environment...I'm curious to see if there will be more than that?

Honestly, I'm secretly hoping there aren't too many. Part of the charm for the original uncharted was it's cohesive setting, everything went together marvelously. I hope this one can continue on that path.
 
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