[PS3] Uncharted 2

[Dregun]

I love the game, sometimes I play through it just to look at the scenery and marvel at the technology being used in video games today.

With that said I would like the main villain to actually be someone I want to route strongly for Nate killing. I was never "Mad" at any of the villains in both games, I think having something besides the pursuit of treasure driving Nate along would do wonders for it. They can accomplish this with more then just cut scenes and dramatic dialog; they can throw game elements into it that cause you to get angry/mad at the villain.

I don't remember any game that made me REALLY want to kill the main Villain, in movies you get that; somebody does something so horrible that you CANT WAIT for the hero to take that person out. You salivate waiting for it, it builds within you and when it finally happens you feel good and a touch evil at the same time!

Have elements that build on-top of one another to drive the player into a hate filled rage directed solely at the villain. Have UC3 start off with Nate burning through a few tasks, have you feeling great that you just unlocked all of these trophies and money. Then have the bad guy capture Nate and tells him unbeknown to him he has his 10yr old son , he tells Nate he is going to flip a coin that decides their fate...the coin flips and no matter the result he shoots Nate; his son in the leg and takes away all of your accomplishments. Each time you face him he takes away more of your accomplishments and uses your son as a human shield. By the time you're at the end of the game Nate is given two choices, kill the villain and get back 50% or regain 100% of his accomplishments by sending him to Jail.

This would be great because it would give the gamer the choice of what is most important to them, killing the Villain or regaining the "prestige" of their accomplishments back. ND could track the results online, show how many people have chosen to kill the villain vs send him to jail. Each choice would provide a different trophy and ending cut scene and if they plan through it UC4 could ask the player if they would like to continue with the path they chose previously or not.

That aside, they could repackage UC2 with a minor change and I'd probably buy it!

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Movie's are only getting real once you start to hear about casting. After all they're making a movie from Gears of War too, and then there's the whole Halo issue as well...

 

[Shifty Geezer]

True. Even then, enough never get released.

 

[wco81]

While the voice acting in games have improved a lot (probably more money in it now plus you have animated movies with big stars doing voices so voice acting is respectable), the characterization in games is weak.

Like what has Drake done do make him sympathetic? Well he does try to rescue the cameraman but that's more a device to introduce a gameplay constraint, make it harder for Nate to get through a particular level.

But there doesn't seem to be enough back story and what personality traits only come out from some wisecracks. Similarly, villains aren't fleshed-out either, they just do awful things and the Serb war criminal talks like a fascist with references to "will" to kill, will to power, in order to become "great." Not terribly original.

They'd have to spend some money on getting a top-notch film screenwriter to draw it out better. But let's face it, the audience for these games are the same audience for movies where action trumps all, especially characterization. A good star/actor can take a villain role and make him entertaining (e.g. Travolta in Face/Off) but not necessarily one which people want to see die.

In games, the propelling force is the gameplay, like getting over a difficult level. That's what makes you keep playing, just a few more minutes you tell yourself, after a marathon session.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

They'd have to spend some money on getting a top-notch film screenwriter to draw it out better.

I don't think you can write those things in (not to mention Hollywood isn't a collection of the world's greatest writers IMO!) because there already more cutscenes than many care for and these are just pushing the plot forwards. We don't want to take time out from our game to watch flashbacks telling us how a character was brought up, when it has no bearing on the game.

I think Heavy Rain is forging the correct path for true interactive storytelling, and ordinary games will have to make do with simplistic characters. Which works for me! When I want a real story, I'll watch a movie or read a book. They're different media with different purposes.

 

[Billy Idol]

Yeah the puzzles would not be organic in a movie. But in a video game, you have these things. You don't want to turn the game completely into an interactive movie. Then you might as well make it a Dragon's Lair where all you're doing is activating different scenes which you don't control.

I have the feeling that the puzzle parts are already close to Dragons Lair in some sense: you come into a room and recognize that have to solve a puzzle ... you open the diary, which tells you push this and do that ... you push this and do that...puzzle solved, next scene. That is why I think that these puzzles don't contribute to the game or to the gameplay.

Isn't that the point? The unusual paths you have to find in the environment leads to these fantastic landscapes, almost more mythical than real. This is something games can do that movies can't do as easily, other than to spend a lot of money on CGI.

Yes, so they can keep this parts and just improve them to increase the wow effect.

Not sure if it would increase the sales but would certainly give the game legs and maybe give people reason to buy and keep the game rather than rent or buy and then sell the game once completed.

I just speak from my experience: if there is online coop (maybe even 4-player online coop?!?!), a lot more of my friends buy such a game...otherwise the often just borrow the game from me if they are not convinced, play it, have a lot of fun...maybe even check the multiplayer part, but then just move on to the next game.

I don't know that realism necessarily leads to better sales. Is Modern Combat realistic? (don't know, I haven't played it or have any interest in playing it). If a game is too realistic, you have some dry, boring thing like Flight Simulator.

All video games have characters performing unrealistic feats. Many of the issues like bullet sponges seem to come from wanting to tune and balance out the game. That is, they can't make it too easy for you to just rip through the levels because it makes the game too short or easy.

So AK-47 is one of the weakest weapons in the game but in real life, you would be able to cause a lot of carnage with it. They give you a lot of AK-47s because you have to shoot with it a lot to cause damage. Like the mutants (or whatever you call them), an AK-47 should be able to rip through any flesh. It would be more realistic if you can mow down these things (after all they're just flesh and bones) but a crossbow is more effective for killing them? They just wanted to make it harder to get through levels with these beasts but they sacrificed realism.

As for platforming, I wouldn't mind if they forced them to use other tactics, like repeling or moutain-climbing, instead of jumping from cliff to cliff in that ice cave. Of course it would make it slow-going though. That is one thing movies do better, like Indiana Jones tripping some booby trap and having to run out of that temple with the rolling boulder after him. To get away, he doesn't have to perform superhuman feats necessarily.

It is just my opinion: I have the feeling that 'realistic' (with respect to the gaming universe) stuff sells better. For instance a lot of my buddies like MW, just because of the realistic guns and the realistic setting. Think about the GTA4 universe and what it tries to simulate...

I also have the feeling that people like the graphics of games with realistic art direction better: MW1, MW2...Assassins Creed also has a certain realistic look to it, in some levels even MGS4 and even RE5...

One of my dreams is, that someone gets all the tech and the engine from ND, take a carefull look at the available snips of Eight Days, and then use this to make an action movie game, but in the sense of a Lethal Weapon movie and not in the sense of a Indiana Jones movie...include online coop, incorporate some brutallity and gore (sad but true: this stuff sells games!!) choose a sarcastic tone and get prepared to publish a blockbuster

 

[DuckThor Evil]

When I want a real story, I'll watch a movie or read a book. They're different media with different purposes.

But if you wan't to be part of that story, then reading a book is not going to cut it. Depending on the game I always project atleast little bit of myself to the character, sometimes a lot, if the setting is suitable or customizable. Playing through games like Dragon Age or Mass Effect is a tall order experience wise for any movie imo.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

But different games are suited to that. A true RPG would let you do that to some extent. A 3rd person platformer/shooter isn't the genre I'd pick to tell a story. The gameplay style doesn't lend itself to narrative.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

But different games are suited to that. A true RPG would let you do that to some extent. A 3rd person platformer/shooter isn't the genre I'd pick to tell a story. The gameplay style doesn't lend itself to narrative.

Yeah I agree about that, I read your post as you saying that videogames in general are not well suited for story telling.

 

[Kittonwy]

Giantbomb GOTY.

 

[patsu]

Like what has Drake done do make him sympathetic? Well he does try to rescue the cameraman but that's more a device to introduce a gameplay constraint, make it harder for Nate to get through a particular level.

I think unlike a traditional movie character, the fact that you play as Nate may make him more sympathetic than a regular guy. The more he behaves like one of us, the more we can identify with him. I actually like his stupid but cliche mistakes (like bumping into the door frame right after he told Elena he's always careful). Happened to me before too -- I ran into a lamp post 3 seconds after telling everyone around me to be careful. ^_^

But there doesn't seem to be enough back story and what personality traits only come out from some wisecracks. Similarly, villains aren't fleshed-out either, they just do awful things and the Serb war criminal talks like a fascist with references to "will" to kill, will to power, in order to become "great." Not terribly original.

I also find the Cintamani Stone story a little too understated.

Spoiler

The myth is really about immortality. Immortality is more than greatness or power. e.g., Towards the end, I was wondering whether Nate would feed Elena some of those tree sap to save her. Okay, she'd become Sheela, but at least she would live.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The story was definitely set up that way. However the story and game competely clash in the end, and Nate can't do what the other guy does and gain the same benefits.

Spoiler

The elixir kills Nate! All he'd need do is guzzle some juice and he'd be on equal footing. But then that'd mess up the ending game experience as you couldn't be killed, and you'd just have to slug it out without the frantic running away from the looney with the shotgun!

It feels to me very much like the story was conceived outside of the game, and the two forced together, rather than the game being crafted around the story. I hope they improve on this in U3 and have events make more sense.

 

[Arwin]

I also find the Cintamani Stone story a little too understated.

Spoiler

The myth is really about immortality. Immortality is more than greatness or power. e.g., Towards the end, I was wondering whether Nate would feed Elena some of those tree sap to save her. Okay, she'd become Sheela, but at least she would live.

Point is of course that it's more a curse than a blessing as per the usual. This is such a cliché in story-telling that they probably didn't think they needed to state this so explicitly, but seeing the reactions here they might have been wrong (though then again I doubt many people give it a lot of thought).

I wonder if any of you guys read Terry Pratchett's Thud! ... it's something like the 30th book in the Discworld series and I've barely read anything else (seen the movie and some of the game though) but I thought this one was very good. First book I read in a long time (overdosed on books during my university years, since then I read about 1 book a year watching a tonne of movies instead), and I read it on Kindle for iPhone (works good, but gets exhausting if you read too much on one day, which this book wants you to as its very fast-paced from start to finish). I think it's the kind of story-telling that's quite fitting to a videogame.

And as per usual in Terry Pratchett's novels, uses clichés (and references to modern society) to great effect.

 

[patsu]

Point is of course that it's more a curse than a blessing as per the usual. This is such a cliché in story-telling that they probably didn't think they needed to state this so explicitly, but seeing the reactions here they might have been wrong (though then again I doubt many people give it a lot of thought).

They certainly built the story up based on the curse concept ("What would a man become if he has the whole Cintamani stone ?"). Would be cool if they could turn it into a blessing in the end.

Spoiler

Well, okay they sort of did that by making the sap deal massive damage on Lazeric. But really immortality itself (or simply life extension) inspired a lot of people, men and women, since the beginning of our history. The other way is to expand on the Tree of Life's predatory power.

 

[patsu]

Analysis: The Sexual Politics Of Uncharted 2

I noticed Chloe spank Nathan's ass a few times in co-op. It's like she couldn't help it. ^_^ Someone wrote an analysis of gender politics in U2:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/26661/Analysis_The_Sexual_Politics_Of_Uncharted_2.php

In my last article, I expounded upon the more obvious and systematic methods of conservative, regressive sexualization that can be found throughout games, the video games industry, game critics, and gamers themselves. While I singled out Prince of Persia as a game that stepped (slightly) outside of these traditional boundaries, I also pointed to Uncharted 2: Among Thieves as a game that both subtly continues these traditions, and blatantly, brashly confounds them. It’s a game that is both safe and radical in its depiction of sex.

 

[wco81]

Literally spank ass?

What kind of gaming site talks about gender politics?

 

[patsu]

Literally spank ass?

Yes. While Nathan was holding up some debri/beam to let others pass. She slapped his ass before making her way through.

Made me a little jealous since my wife hasn't spanked mine for ages.

And in U3, I'd watch out for Elena.

Spoiler

There is still a remote possibility that Nate fed her a little sap to keep her alive long enough for the rescue

 

[deepbrown]

I love the game, sometimes I play through it just to look at the scenery and marvel at the technology being used in video games today.

With that said I would like the main villain to actually be someone I want to route strongly for Nate killing. I was never "Mad" at any of the villains in both games, I think having something besides the pursuit of treasure driving Nate along would do wonders for it. They can accomplish this with more then just cut scenes and dramatic dialog; they can throw game elements into it that cause you to get angry/mad at the villain.

I don't remember any game that made me REALLY want to kill the main Villain, in movies you get that; somebody does something so horrible that you CANT WAIT for the hero to take that person out. You salivate waiting for it, it builds within you and when it finally happens you feel good and a touch evil at the same time!

Games and films rely on stereotypes like Nazi's etc...

I personally find that kind of enemy uninteresting. GG play to this stereotype in Killzone...and I'd like them to fully flesh out the enemy so you can see their humanity and their side of the story. I find that more interesting personally - to feel morrally ill-obliged to kill.

U2 does neither - neither evil or good - just enemies to be killed - though that is fleshed out at around chapter 15.

 

[deathindustrial]

U2 does neither - neither evil or good - just enemies to be killed - though that is fleshed out at around chapter 15.

The first Uncharted was essentially a murder simulator IMHO, to the point of being oppressive. You have plausible and empathetic characters who then choose to kill wave upon wave of people without feeling any remorse or even pause and often for no better reason than they want some treasure. This differs from the average shooter where you have zero emotional attachment with the characters or the protagonist is not supposed to be someone you actually like. The more effort Naughty Dog puts into character development, the less it makes sense that Nathan Drake is going to want to wantonly murder hundreds of people (unless his behaviour is just a sham and he is supposed to be a "Dexter" like character).

The second one so far seems to weigh the killing sprees a bit better with the story and platform sections. I think it is still just a bit heavy on the mindless death and destruction but the pacing is good enough that I am not constantly wondering if Nathan suffers from a personality disorder.

=)

Cheers

 

[wco81]

So maybe they're going to have to start killing zombies or something that doesn't raise moral questions.

Probably not a good idea for video games which feature killing to raise moral questions either.