PS3 to do real face morphing?

[SynapticSignal]

I never wrote so much

the Cell demos at E3 ran on a Mercury "Blade Server" dual-Cell with 1 GB of Rambus

the dev Kit (Cell + nvidia gpu) was used to do the killzone 2 prerendered video (the frame rate real was 5 fps, they have played at 60 fps)



E3 2005: Cell Processor Technology Demos


"The key to this demo was that the imagery was ray-traced in realtime solely via a pair of Cell processors. Instead of using a video card to display the graphics (thereby limiting the "wow" factor), the Cell processors rendered the image to a series of JPG images, which were then streamed to a standard G5 tower over the network."


"The next demo was based on a new cloth simulation algorithm being worked into Maya. Again using two Cell processors, the demo was able to run 16 separate simulations simultaneously. Each piece of cloth was defined by 300 vertices"

" Next up we checked out a set of blade servers, each set up with two Cell processors."


http://ps3.ign.com/articles/615/615535p1.html

 

[BlueTsunami]

I never wrote so much

the Cell demos at E3 ran on a Mercury "Blade Server" dual-Cell with 1 GB of Rambus

the dev Kit (Cell + nvidia gpu) was used to do the killzone 2 prerendered video (the frame rate real was 5 fps, they have played at 60 fps)



E3 2005: Cell Processor Technology Demos


"The key to this demo was that the imagery was ray-traced in realtime solely via a pair of Cell processors. Instead of using a video card to display the graphics (thereby limiting the "wow" factor), the Cell processors rendered the image to a series of JPG images, which were then streamed to a standard G5 tower over the network."


"The next demo was based on a new cloth simulation algorithm being worked into Maya. Again using two Cell processors, the demo was able to run 16 separate simulations simultaneously. Each piece of cloth was defined by 300 vertices"

" Next up we checked out a set of blade servers, each set up with two Cell processors."


http://ps3.ign.com/articles/615/615535p1.html

Cloth Physics Demo and the Terrain Demo. No one has said other wise about those two Demos. Although, I didn't know they where being showcased at E3.

 

[SynapticSignal]

> "and I've a LOT of doubts on Cell efficiency (Apple agrees with me, seems)"

Efficiency was only mentioned if running all code off of the PPC, and why would anyone use a processor ignoring 90 percent of it's power.

PPC???
what are talkin' about, there's no PPC!!
there'e spe and PPe, what are saying???
ARGH

Porting over Apple's software to take advantage of CELL strengths would have taken years.

CELL is certainly not inefficient, but an incredibly powerful monster, when you write good code for the SPE's. A number of benchmarks already show it running circles around traditional architectures when running multi-media based code which is important to the PS3's success.

lol, you have to read better, before to write a reply
calm down and read what I'm saying 'bout multimedia and different processing

> "3) Cell has an hit of 90% processing integers"

> "4) Cell has an hit of 90% processing double precision numbers"

> "1) Cell is provided with only 512 KB of cache"

And almost 2 Megabytes of localized memory!!! Did you forget that? Read my signature line, and you will understand why CELL is such an impressive architecture. SEVEN seperate CPU's with localized memory.

calm down, why are you so hungry?
******sm here?


do you know the differences between a registry and a cache?
seems you don't
and you miss completly the fact that nor the PPe can put data on the registry of spe
so AGAIN, the only way to fetch spe is using the 512 KB of cache of the PPe
ok?
understood now?
there's no others way, that's the worst bound, the worst limit of the whole thing
512 is not a little, is nothing when there's so much data to process

sorry for the bad news, don't blame me please, I'm only the messenger

 

[chris1515]

Do you believe that IBM engineers are stupid?

I apologize for my poor english. English is a foreign languages for me.

XeCPu is an in order CPU. XeCPU has only 1 mo of cache share between three cores.

The PPE have only 512 ko of cache but, each SPE have Local store memory of 256 Kb.

Do you read the DeanoC powerpoint about CELL programmation? The Gamecode will run on one PPE thread and you can utilise the second thread for IA, if you are unhappy with the perfomance of SPE for IA. SPE has DMA. I'm not sure of the perfomance of SPE for AI, but for physics Novodex find that they perform well.

And the only demo with a dual Cell blade server is the raycasting demo and they gaves number for one CELL.

Neither the CELL or the XeCPU are out of order CPU, they aren't fit the needs of Apple. But they are good processor for game console.

If you want to compare 99 night with a game, please wait the presentation of playable version of Heavenly Sword.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

SynapticSignal, you have talked gobbledegook. The thread was talking about the Toshiba demo, you say demo's don't show the actual realworld capabilities of Cell, I explain how that's otherwise, and you go off on one complaining how rubbish and ineffectual the Cell really is as a graphics engine. You've totally failed to hold onto the topic at hand which, as far as I can see, is because you only ever wanted to criticise Cell in the first place. I don't mind that you disagree with me on some points, but I do mind you're approach to handling a discussion, you're lack of basic politeness, and the fact some of your points are WAY off the mark but you're just going to go on and on regurgitating the same info. Bleargh...lost cause this one. I can't be bothered to argue. Bye!

 

[chris1515]

http://www.research.ibm.com/journal/rd/494/kahle.html

I think U need some reading about the CELL.

And some infos about the terrain rendering demonstration:

http://www.research.ibm.com/people/a/ashwini/E3 2005 Cell Blade reports/TRE demo - final.pdf

 

[Edge]

SynapticSignal, forget the discussion if that is your response.

My response is to others who wish to be educated in an accurate assesment of CELL. You post was totally misleading, on Apple's decisions, and the so called weaknesses that you pointed out. You are completely ignoring CELL strengths. Talking about cache size and ignoring the tons of other on-chip memory is incredibly misleading.

Anyway you forgot the lack of hardware branch prediction on the individual SPE's, which can largely be alleviated by software branch prediction.

If you know anything about PowerPC, you would know the PPE is a PPC processor. So why don't you laugh outloud about that?

 

[SynapticSignal]

first of all I want to comment your topic title
I don't believe that IBM eng. are stupids, they have done a good multimedia cpu

I apologize for my poor english. English is a foreign languages for me.

there's someone with a worse english than yours: me

XeCPu is an in order CPU. XeCPU has only 1 mo of cache share between three cores.

The PPE have only 512 ko of cache but, each SPE have Local store memory of 256 Kb.

Xenon (not XeCPU) have 3 PPe than only 1 in cell
Xenon have double the cache of cell, all for the PPe (this is enough because there's no spe in xenos hungry of data)

what you call "local memory" is the sum of registry of spe
this is not a cache, PPe can't reach the registry of others cores (as are spe)
this is very important in the discuss

Do you read the DeanoC powerpoint about CELL programmation? The Gamecode will run on one PPE thread and you can utilise the second thread for IA, if you are unhappy with the perfomance of SPE for IA. SPE has DMA.

no, sorry, spe are unable reach directly the rambus 256 MB block

I'm not sure of the perfomance of SPE for AI, but for physics Novodex find that they perform well.

they sell the ageia physics library
they WANT to sell this to sony, what you can thing they have to say about?

"oh It will be GREAT on cell!!!!!!!"

but the gas station is a pathetic demo of the physycs on Cell, with innatural bouncing of the pieces on terrain and so on

And the only demo with a dual Cell blade server is the raycasting demo and they gaves number for one CELL.

so you really believe that they uses a dual cell for tot demos, and a mono cell for others?
they've used surely one machine for all
and why don't use the dual cell with 1 GB of rambus?

came on, sony fake the things, they want the people believe the teraflops story, they showed prerendered videos, they've done all the tricks they can

Neither the CELL or the XeCPU are out of order CPU, they aren't fit the needs of Apple. But they are good processor for game console.

developer says different things, they blame for in-order cpu, and blame for the cell with only a core and only a 512 KB of cache

I believe developers than users (that often are not unbiased)

If you want to compare 99 night with a game, please wait the presentation of playable version of Heavenly Sword.

there's some realtime to see, waiting a playable demo of anything (sony has playable demos, but don't show it, ask you why...........)

the only thing that I've found in realtime on ps3 hardware is Fifth phantom saga from sega (PS3 exclusive)

I don't like it
Idon't like the detail, I don'like the shadows, I don't like the low poly models and scene

now we've only to wait that sony take courage to show some real time playable stuff and no cg and predendered movies

so we can judge what cell can do in gaming tasks

 

[BlueTsunami]

Ok, I could already tell where synapticsygnal was going with this but its already been brought there.

"Sony is teh fakzorz"

So I guess IBM and Toshiba are fakzorz'ed with Sony. Bah

 

[SynapticSignal]

SynapticSignal, forget the discussion if that is your response.

My response is to others who wish to be educated in an accurate assesment of CELL. You post was totally misleading, on Apple's decisions, and the so called weaknesses that you pointed out. You are completely ignoring CELL strengths. Talking about cache size and ignoring the tons of other on-chip memory is incredibly misleading.

there're no tons of nothing
I'm tired of guys that thinks that registry is like cache
if you can't understand the differences, can't be discuss between us
came back when you reach the point

Anyway you forgot the lack of hardware branch prediction on the individual SPE's, which can largely be alleviated by software branch prediction.

false, absolutly false
is a thing so hard that only few will have success in this task
this is what J. Carmak calls "pain in the ass"

but surely you are more skilled than Carmack developing 3d engines and games, right?

If you know anything about PowerPC, you would know the PPE is a PPC processor. So why don't you laugh outloud about that?

**ARGH**
PPC is a different class of processors from Cell
there're PPC and there're cell

and I'm not laughting, I'm crying for disappointment
I thought to find smarted techincians here

I'm not interested to teach nothing to nobody, I'm not interested to word fights with f4nboysm, so continue thinking that registry is same thing of cache (abominio)

 

[Xenus]

Oh and by the way it was posted about a week ago that they had refined cell so it was only about a 50% performance loss going to DP but it is thought that this will be for the worstation market and not for the PS3.

 

[Nesh]

I am confused here.I am no tech geek.But knowing that Toshiba, Sony and IBM worked on Cell, spent years and millions on R&D only to make a processor that pales in comparisson to XBOX360's three cored PowerPC architecture CPU in many aspects sounds kind of....well....illogical.
I hear lots of problems being estimated about Cell from many users that I wonder if the money time and effort was spent for nothing
The least I was expecting knowing the effort spent on Cell's creation was something groundbraking.But all I read is how many disadvandages it has with a few advandages only

Are there any developers here working on Cell that can shed some light please??

Can someone direct me to DeanoC's opinion and experience so far on Cell if there is a link?

 

[chris1515]

But the 256 ko of local store isn't registry, it is local store memory SRAM and you have 128 registry of 128bits.

 

[drpepper]

Weren't those mercury blade dual-CELL servers announced like a few weeks ago? How the hell did Sony get their hands on it at E3 2005?

There are a lot of holes in your arguments SynapticSignal and I think that's causing the confusion.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I hear lots of problems being estimated about Cell from many users that I wonder if the money time and effort was spent for nothing
The least I was expecting knowing the effort spent on Cell's creation was something groundbraking.But all I read is how many disadvandages it has with a few advandages only

Are there any developers here working on Cell that can shed some light please??

Do a search of the forum for Cell topics. It's been discussed to death (of course inconclusively and some think it's fantastic while others think it's crippled beyond usefulness) and there's no point covering old ground when it's all on record. For me the fact Square Enix produced that FFVII movie on Cell in realtime in only two months work shows it can't be all bad

 

[Nesh]

Do a search of the forum for Cell topics. It's been discussed to death (of course inconclusively and some think it's fantastic while others think it's crippled beyond usefulness) and there's no point covering old ground when it's all on record. For me the fact Square Enix produced that FFVII movie on Cell in realtime in only two months work shows it can't be all bad

Yeah but I d like to read posts of developers that actually worked on it like DeanoC's

I dont wont to search in all the countless threads in hope to find one valid hehe.I ve been reading the forums before anyways but I was lost in all the arguements swirling around speculations than personal experience of a developer.

But indeed the FF7 demo raises hope

 

[avaya]

Why do threads degenerate like this?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Yeah but I d like to read posts of developers that actually worked on it like DeanoC's

The devs working on Cell are the last people to turn to. They're under NDA's so can talk less than the rest of us!

 

[Nesh]

The devs working on Cell are the last people to turn to. They're under NDA's so can talk less than the rest of us!

damn

 

[mckmas8808]

Nesh if you want info on the CELL processor please don't read what SynapticSignal has to type. The guy is very misinformed. When you label the sega game the only real-time thing made on a PS3 dev kit then you know he is misinformed. SynanpticSignal just skips over the FF7 demo.