PS3: Phil Harrison addresses the real-time vs CGI issue

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mckmas8808 said:
I just dont think the man is lying. If he said they can do it in real-time for next-gen gaming then well I will believe him.

He's not lying, as the demo is running in realtime. Quake ran in realtime as well.
He just doesn't tell you how much of the visuals is a result of precalculated data.

See, if they could do it all in realtime, you'd see this in the Fight Night demo as well, wouldn't you? ;)
 
Acert93 said:
Jaws said:
What's so last moment?
The GPU maybe?

Do a search from 04' DEC on this forum and read all about it in hundreds of threads...



Acert93 said:
Sorry but I don't see the relevance it has to what I posted? Anyway this stuff has been discuused in countless threads...

The FlexIO was designed to be *gasp*, Flexible in connectiong CELL to other IC's... e.g. GPUs...

So let me spell it out.

Regardless of the flexibility of the Flex I/O and the CELL in general, the question is how flexible will a desktop PC part fit into this design. Are there limitations on the GPU side. That is relevant, even if we do not have an answer at this point.

Replace desktop PC part with a GPU made on MARS...that is the purpose of the FlexIO...to connect to 'other' IC's for a specific design goal...

How am I meant to know if there are limitations on the GPU? We know jack about the RSX...
 
Perhaps in an effort to put this last moment GPU issue to bed one might dig up when exactly the first hints that something might have changed wrt to the PS3 plan and put a date to it. Such as when it was announced that the RAM density was changed and put a -1 month date on co-operation between the 2 companies ?
 
G4 just interviewed Jack Tretton from Sony and he said the Killzone footage was "definitely real. It's definitely gameplay."

WTH?
 
colinisation said:
Perhaps in an effort to put this last moment GPU issue to bed one might dig up when exactly the first hints that something might have changed wrt to the PS3 plan and put a date to it. Such as when it was announced that the RAM density was changed and put a -1 month date on co-operation between the 2 companies ?

RAM density changed? Since when was it made public?

Quick summary, Sony GPU, Toshiba GPU, ATI GPU and NV GPU have all brushed with the PS3...and there are inconlusive 'rumours'...
 
Kolgar said:
G4 just interviewed Jack Tretton from Sony and he said the Killzone footage was "definitely real. It's definitely gameplay."

WTH?

Oh yes. And I'm the Queen of England.
 
On g4tv he says

"It was video" " Everythign you saw on that tape is game engine or done to spec " " Everything was done with the game engines done to spec"


Basicly they used he game engine and upped everything to hell . Cleaver way of not having to own up to them being rendered
 
Now Phil Harrison just told Morgan Webb that the KZ footage was "all game engine or done to spec" and that "it's just scratching the surface."

Webb: "So I'll be playing that in my living room?"

Harrison: "Absolutely."
 
Would be interesting to know what "done to spec" means too. Maybe the poly-counts are same as in game but they fail to mention that lighting/shading and stuff like hair (in the KillZone shots especially) are not reperesentative of in-game graphics. It is easy enough to take game assets and render them out with a good software renderer like MentalRay and make them look much better than what you'll ever see. Hell, maybe games really will look that good but I doubt it.
 
Understand that the Killzone trailer has been singled out by the public and most of the media as the most impressive title shown on nextgen hardware. Thus Sony just can't come out and admit that it's simple prerendered footage at this point - so they won't do it and say "done to spec" instead. They are careful to avoid outright lies, but also carefully selecting the words so that people can hold on to the realtime assumptions.
 
Kolgar said:
Now Phil Harrison just told Morgan Webb that the KZ footage was "all game engine or done to spec" and that "it's just scratching the surface."

Webb: "So I'll be playing that in my living room?"

Harrison: "Absolutely."
not in what i wa watching .

Which was morgan and that guy
 
And just to be fair, I'd add to the other side of the scales as well. Word's out in the industry that the engine technology produced for KZ3 so far is very very good.
 
it's made by guerilla games, even if they did manage to get the game to look that good it probably plays like shellshocked nam 67'
 
jvd said:
Kolgar said:
Now Phil Harrison just told Morgan Webb that the KZ footage was "all game engine or done to spec" and that "it's just scratching the surface."

Webb: "So I'll be playing that in my living room?"

Harrison: "Absolutely."
not in what i wa watching .

Which was morgan and that guy

Morgan looked great by the way.

BTW did you guys see this? An off-road game called Motor STorm? Jeez...

http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?id=5841&type=wmv

I didnt remember it from the press conference but all I can say is wow! The particle effects (particularly road dust, smoke etc) is EXCEPTIONAL. IMHO leaps and bounds beyond Killzone ( which is impressive).

The lighting in and around the canyon... breathless... :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

Let me say I wasnt ready for next gen a couple weeks ago (playing forza, sc3 re4) but now i'm CANT WAIT this stuff is exactly what I was waiting for... im getting both a PS3 and a 360!
 
Jaws said:
Do a search from 04' DEC on this forum and read all about it in hundreds of threads...

I read them, I was here ;) NV said that the technology had been worked on for 18mo at the time, they never said the PS3 GPU was specifically in the works for the last 18mo. Yet Sony advocates interpretated that as meaning the PS3 GPU was in the works the entire time. Later is was clarified that it would be using technology from their next Gen GF chips. It was stated to be a "custom" chip, but NV never said what they meant by custom. N2A was custom. There was always a strong possiblity that NV's proposal was the contingency plan and when the "make or break" date came they decided to go in the alternate direction.

From the looks of the GPU, from the comments from ATI, and from those under NDA mentioning we would know more about the GPU when the GF 7800 is announced shortly I think it is pretty easy to put together.

The what ifs do not seem to have panned out and the easiest explaination seems to be the right one. Which is not a bad thing because NV bring a LOT to the table for Sony. One of those things being the enthusiasm of Epic and the great UT2007 live demo at E3. Then you have all their IP, know how, developer connections, and tools.

I am not saying a PC part is bad. But the constant I can name a handful of similar issues related to PS3 tech (wont specifically mention them because it would appear I was trying to pick on you, which I am not... you know your stuff) that get pushed forward as fact and if someone disagrees they are an idiot. A number of times these have failed to materialize and/or pan out as claimed. The idea that the RSX is a totally custom GPU in development specifically for the PS3 for 2 years does not seem to be holding water. ATI mentions in one of their interviews they had worked on the R500 for 2 years up to this point. I could be wrong, but it really does look like the evidence is pointing to what NV's Pres said: That the PS3 GPU is based on their next gen GeForce, and in fact it looks like a GF chip. Which is a good thing.

As for the original issue, my point:

Without knowing
1. If the slide is about the PS3, or just CELL in general (re: it will be in workstations also)
2. When that slide was made in relation to the NV deal and
3. If and how that slide relates to CELL <> RSX

We cannot really say how much of that specific demo applies. Just because a slide from almost a year ago mentions the interaction of CELL at a deep level with rendering and Sony showed a CELL based demo doing as much, we do not know how flexible the GPU is in this regards.

If you go back to read some of the responses to the hint it might is seems people were getting a little excited.

It would be like someone getting excited because the patents mention that the xCPU can take on some of the vertex load from the GPU, and that this may work in the Xbox 360. Seeing this materialize as more relevant.

At least in my opinion.
 
Aww come on, have you ever tried to mix CG and realtime images together? Shading, lighting, antialiasing, texture filtering are so different in the hw and sw algorithms that the two would never look the same. And if you could render parts of it on hardware, then you could render the rest, you'd just need more time to put the frames out to some media so that you can stitch them together in an editing app.

No, the whole thing is rendered.
 
Kolgar said:
Now Phil Harrison just told Morgan Webb that the KZ footage was "all game engine or done to spec" and that "it's just scratching the surface."

Webb: "So I'll be playing that in my living room?"

Harrison: "Absolutely."

Hey Kolgar, can you get the exact quotes for me? I have a new sig. So when it comes true I buy a PS3, when it does not I can remember... "Harrison said we will be playing that in our living room" ;)

BTW, we should make a single thread full of ONLY PR so we can see if any of it comes true ;)
 
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