[PS3] LittleBigPlanet 2

[Shifty Geezer]

I think you're underselling this, its neat! I've been testing it out, and while playing it with a dummy second player I was actually joined by a random player too, and we actually just played the game and had fun. The vents are very cool, as are the heat seeking mines. The other guy rated your level very highly.

I took some screenshots in game, lets see if they show up in the level hub. I'm now going to pimp this on Gaf, should give it a nice boost.

Thank you very much! If people like it, that's awesome, as you you probably know by now I'm a pretty heavy critic of games design, including MM, and that has to extend to me too! There's one terrible design fault with my Tankz game that comes from trying to copy too closely the Amiga game, which. Unlike most contemporary Tanks games that include an independent turret, Tankz only shoots forwards which means you have to attack at distance and using bouncing shots. Now in the original if being chased you could shoot forwards and your shots would bounce off a flat wall and hit the tank chasing you, which meant they had to peel off or take as much damage as they were dealt. Without that mechanism, if you are being chased close-quarters, running does you no good. So you may as well turn and fight and take down your enemy in a suicide run. Ideally there needs to be a rear defense. A short range beam weapon would do it - enough distance would give the escaping player a chance to dodge. But the game can't conveniently be edited to added that as each tank is an individual object. Well, maybe I could, if copy/pasting chips works. But still, as the creator (or maybe just as a miserable grump?!) I notice what's wrong more than I notice what's right!

Apparently the H&G is a complete game pretty much, created by 12 talented creators as a challenge set by Mm, and yes Jaeyden seems one of them ...

Looks intriguing! They say custom music and objects, but I'm assuming that's in game tools, and not actual prizes? But then the music of the trailer was new to me. The visuals of the trailer looked gorgeous. I'd be interested to learn more about the undertaking. I imagine rtm223 who is a presence at LBPC will fill in the details if Jaeyden doesn't appear here.

I also wonder if this'll be paid content? If new proper music and objects, it almost has to be, but even if not, I wonder if this is a first step to creators getting paid for their work? I believe that the N-Dubz video was a paid commission for those involved given comments on LBPC, but that was a work for Sony for one of their artists.

 

[Lucid_Dreamer]

LBP2's version of a Killzone 3 level.

http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=VY8PCsB0T5A#at=128

 

[patsu]

Is the H&G level a chargeable DLC ?

 

[Lucid_Dreamer]

IDK, but I don't think so.

 

[patsu]

LBP2 v1.01

Here's their answer:
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2011...nsel-gretelbot-out-now-plus-game-update-1-01/

The Community-made Level Pack Hansel & Gretelbot is out now! For those who didn’t see it last week, Hansel & Gretelbot is a completely community made pack of 7 playable levels, furnished with a full story, cut scenes, voice acting, original score, and lots of prizes to collect too! It’s a might achievement, and hopefully one that will inspire others to do the same.

Game updated to v1.01

Codename: “Cupcake”

Earlier this week, a game update for LittleBigPlanet 2 was released. Codenamed ‘Cupcake,’ it fixes a number of issues that were making some players’ experience of LBP 2 insufficiently Sack-tastic. ...

http://www.mediamolecule.com/blog/article/lbp2_game_update_1.01_-_cupcake/#

Your Craft Earth should no longer obscure the pod when changing your PSN Avatar.

If your POD was missing, blocked, broken or contained any create objects it shouldn’t have, it will now be reset to normal.

A more accessible “Reset Pod” option is now available should your POD become broken for some reason! To access it:
Pause the game / Press START
Go to the Settings Menu
Select Profile
Select “Reset Pod Decoration”

The “Naux” glitch / corrupt Sackboy problem should now be fixed - your Sackboy will no longer be squishy and unable to swim!

DLC costumes and PODS that have been captured from community levels will no longer be selectable in pop-it. Anyone wearing a “glitched” DLC costume after patching will have it removed.

Several improvements to overall game stability have been made.

We’ve vanquished some evil code gremlins that were causing crashes and that has improved overall stability.

Info bubbles that have long text descriptions (e.g. The sequencer) can now be scrolled in a fixed width text box.

There is now a visual indicator showing how high a bounce pad will bounce you when tweaking it in Create mode.

Stickers and decorations that are placed on Sackboy only will not appear in the used objects page.

Level keys can now be deleted from Pop-it!

You can’t watch the credits while already watching them after completing the game.

It should now be possible to re-enter your shopping cart if you accidentally signed out when it had some items in it.

Players will now be prompted to save the changes made to their level in Create when switching to Play Mode after having changed the Audio Reverb.

Emitting and destroying spawn points in quick succession should no longer make the game crawl into the corner and weep.

LBP1 sound objects should now be correctly imported when using the option to do so when booting the game.

It is no longer possible to access level links to LBP1 Story levels that you have hearted.

The Clank Costume has green eyes again!

 

[Arwin]

Will definitely check that out tonight.

 

[patsu]

Quaz51 published a new level yesterday ! ^_^
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=26242956&postcount=3451

i made a Meat boy game with another creator (Kain 2097)

my part is all the logic/mecha. the meat boy control system (true meat boy gameplay), the inter-level data transfer between the five sub level and the main level (for pass main level intro and limit the player to one run only for every level), i made interface, others logic and LEVEL 3 (and tutoriel)

For the uninitiated, he created the calculator in the original LBP beta:

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I was just reading some posts on LBPCentral yesterday from people finding it much harder to get decent plays for their levels, and feeling it wasn't worth putting in the effort any more. Even things like the feedback for feedback service won't get you very far because there's soooooo much stuff, people haven't time to see it all. There are also some very highly appreciated (50+% hearted) levels that never make it onto the cool or hot lists, while one guy said he released his level at night just to see what happens without any salesmanship, and unexpectedly found it on the cool list and popular next morning.

So I'd say MM really have created a new artistic medium! Like writing, movies, music, there's a few lucky people who get noticed, and all the other artists struggle on getting nowhere until they throw in the towel. The sad part is this game, intended to be awesome fun and get people being creative, is also generating some much bad feeling from frustration. I doubt anyone anticipated that.

 

[V3]

I was just reading some posts on LBPCentral yesterday from people finding it much harder to get decent plays for their levels, and feeling it wasn't worth putting in the effort any more. Even things like the feedback for feedback service won't get you very far because there's soooooo much stuff, people haven't time to see it all. There are also some very highly appreciated (50+% hearted) levels that never make it onto the cool or hot lists, while one guy said he released his level at night just to see what happens without any salesmanship, and unexpectedly found it on the cool list and popular next morning.

So I'd say MM really have created a new artistic medium! Like writing, movies, music, there's a few lucky people who get noticed, and all the other artists struggle on getting nowhere until they throw in the towel. The sad part is this game, intended to be awesome fun and get people being creative, is also generating some much bad feeling from frustration. I doubt anyone anticipated that.

Aren't every game developers in the world feels like this until they get noticed

I can pick this game for cheap, is the Move support has ETA yet ?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Aren't every game developers in the world feels like this until they get noticed

Every creator in every medium!

I can pick this game for cheap, is the Move support has ETA yet ?

No word on it.

 

[patsu]

One of the reasons I feel Internet publishing is important for LBP.

People don't just create a level. They have a vision or message to deliver, or a point to make. If the game allows me to make YouTube skits or mini LBP browser plugin games that everyone can download and play, it would be a boon to the industry.

Busy people can enjoy their creations too !

 

[Shifty Geezer]

That's an interesting idea. Something like LBP for PSSuite where the levels can run on PSS devices even if the editor needs to be NGP native, would be great for getting the mini-type titles on mobiles which are the natural habitat of such short and simple games. But that won't solve creator frustration in being one tiny, irrlevant fish in a sea of millions. In that respect I feel, maybe without foundation, that you'll lose the middle ground in content. You''ll get loads and loads of 'crap' from people just playing with the tools for the fun of it; you'll have a few big names who invest hours and hours crafting great experiences; but you'll have no-one trying to break in dedicating the hours because it'll be mostly futile. I imagine the only reason so many developers spam the App Store and Android etc. with clones and mindless twaddle is they can at least get some money in return, and if they get a big break it means big payback. If you're just doing it for love and no-one loves what you do, where's the incentive?

 

[patsu]

Yes… Internet publishing should have higher priority over Move integration. We already have a first cut of Move LBP today anyway.

But that won't solve creator frustration in being one tiny, irrlevant fish in a sea of millions.

It helps because now you can embed the skits, mini-levels in any and all web pages, not just the QR code. Everyone can "play" the thing in-place on his or her current viewing platform.

EDIT: In short, you take the "game" to the people instead of the other way round.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I don't really see how that helps. It just means you now have to start a blog and drum up interest, or make loads of Facebook 'friends' who'll actual visit and play stuff. As a marketing tool, direct access would be better than text descriptions, grotty screenshots and handicam YouTube vids, but the problems of selling will remain the same.

 

[patsu]

It should address 2 issues:

1. More effective selling/marketing of your level because someone else can easily incorporate your level in their web sites/pages also. If it fits in with the web content (i.e., people reading the web page may be interested in similar topic of interest as your level), and is immediately playable, it should be more effective to compel someone to try it at least once.

2. Increase the platform base for playing your level

 

[Shifty Geezer]

1. Yes, in the same way youTube embedding helps get YouTube views.

2. I don't think that's a problem. There are already millions of LBP players. At the end of the day the issue is visibility. It's just like YouTube, with loads of people creating stuff. How can anyone find your vids? Or webgames, when there are sooo many, why will people play yours? You basically have to market them. This is a different job and mindset to creating, which is where things get pear-shaped. History is full of artists who's interest was creating, not selling, which was their downfall unless they got lucky. Yet I respect and value the artist who's creating art over the salesman who's pushing a product. As if it's not enough to master design, logic, lighting, audio engineering, have an inspired concept and the dedication to put it all together, you also have to be a PR frontman and marketeer. Doesn't that sound like asking too much from creators?

 

[patsu]

2. I don't think that's a problem. There are already millions of LBP players. At the end of the day the issue is visibility. It's just like YouTube, with loads of people creating stuff. How can anyone find your vids? Or webgames, when there are sooo many, why will people play yours? You basically have to market them. This is a different job and mindset to creating, which is where things get pear-shaped. History is full of artists who's interest was creating, not selling, which was their downfall unless they got lucky. Yet I respect and value the artist who's creating art over the salesman who's pushing a product. As if it's not enough to master design, logic, lighting, audio engineering, have an inspired concept and the dedication to put it all together, you also have to be a PR frontman and marketeer. Doesn't that sound like asking too much from creators?

1 and 2 work hand in hand.

If you scale the base up to Internet scale, then even obscure topics will find "sufficient" audience given time. A few millions of LBP users is small compared to the Internet population. In addition, people use Internet all the time, not only when sitting in the living room. The interest will also be broader and more passionate in general.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

But then you're not just competing with other LBP levels for exposure, but the whole internet. Every LBP level would become the equivalent of another Flash game. You'd get maybe a couple of hundred plays, versus a couple of dozen. There'd be no means to get mainstream exposure unless you get a lucky break.

Plus such a technology would have to exist, which is very unlikely to ever appear. Whatever could be done for LBP3, LBP2 is what it is now.

 

[Arwin]

I think LBP2 is awesome already. The only minor useful thing they might be able to add to the current system is maybe the option to add links to youtube vids of your level so that your level link not only has screenshots but also the option to preview a level on youtube. I could see how they may want to keep that for when (if) they get youtube support in there natively at some point.

In the end content creation is about content creation, and your satisfaction has to be from making it first. If your satisfaction can only come from a public reward, then you better also learn the craft of bringing your work under the attention of people, or work together with someone who does that. In the meantime I think all the various leaderboards do a great job too.

Though thinking about it now, the most important other thing that Mm could be doing is of coure increasing the userbase, by finding perhaps a better and more aggressive way of marketing the user content to gamers who aren't drawn to LBP2 as a creator but as a player. Sony for instance could embrace the many levels that are spoofed off existing games and use them in co-marketing efforts, by having every Sony game article/official website link to user created levels that play off this game. They could do the same with spoofs off popular news stories or anything else, and maybe also introduce some more mainstream categories, like 'best comedy', 'best topical', 'best thriller', etc. much like books are categorised in the library. They could do yearly 'Oscars' also, and maybe even allow for regionalisation (e.g. allow me to find the best Dutch levels, so I can look for Dutch levels that teach the ABC or Maths or whatever).

These are some of the many things they could do to improve LBP2 with fairly minimal effort actually, now that I come to think of it. Together with Move and NGP support (with all the controls that affords), I think there's quite a ways to grow bigger and more mainstream for LBP2.

The end goal would be to make LBP2 more attractive to consumers vs creators, because the best way to increase the chance of creators getting a reward for their work is by making sure that for every creator there are thousands of consumers. Right now, considering the amount of levels out there, that ratio seems to be closer to 1:2.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

In the end content creation is about content creation, and your satisfaction has to be from making it first. If your satisfaction can only come from a public reward...

I very much disagree; there is content creation on different levels. There are people who dabble with watercolours because it's a hobby, and they do it for their own amusement, and there are those for whom it's a calling that defines their place in the world, and they need to have it recognised. Hence why Van Gogh killed himself instead of getting a 'real' job and painting just for his own hobby. But even then, even if not a calling, everyone needs recognition for their achievements. This is basic human psychology and you can't go happily through life without anyone ever saying, "well done, good for you," unless you're a sociopath!

Also, where little creations can be fun in their creation, there is a measure of work involved in creation on a larger scale that offers no reward in itself, so either that reward comes from overcoming the challenge, or from appreciation from others. this is true in every medium when the tools hamper ones vision. I dare say you'll be hard pushed to find any game developer who's experienced crap, buggy tools who'll tell you that they love the challenge of the struggle. We hate crap, buggy tools, but we endure them to get the end result. If the end result lacks reward, it makes more sense to abandon the struggle and do something else.

I was playing with some kids the other day and knocked up a simple zombie shooter, and they really loved it. That was just fun. I then thought I'd make it into a proper level, and hit lots of walls with LBP2's shortcomings. Because there was an audience that'd appreciate it, I've spent some time doing work to solve issues, but the idea of giving myself brain-strain finding solutions to bugs and strange design-choices is not what I'd choose as a hobby! With my Tanks game, it was a royal pain in the arse. If the end result was something I could play myself, great. If it's something other people can play, great. but if it's irrelevant, I'd ahve got more out of my time doing something else entirely.

So all in all, I think it an unfair trivialisation to think everyone creating (in any medium) should be happy to just do so for their own amusement. Given the lack of feedback and comments on levels and YouTube vids and the like though, it seems quite apparent that people at large aren't even willing to say as much a "thank you" for people who tried to give them something they'd like, so I'm not that surprised if people think everyone spending hours and hours to try and make fun experiences in LBP2 for other people to enjoy, wrestling with bugs and quirks and tuning design, should be willing to give up their time on something they don't enjoy doing (struggling with bugs and design quirks) for free and with no recognition and with no appreciation.