[PS3] Killzone 3

[dragonelite]

reading the comments over @gaf, it seems that kz3 mp is un-repearable broken?!

Does kinda break my heart was glad they removed the spawn nade that was my only complain i had in kz 2. It was just to easy to make a spawn killing setup now that the tactician has to activate a spawn beacon i thought they kinda fixed my biggest complain. Of course i have only heard this have not played or participate in the kz 3 beta.

Hope GG fixes all that stuff wouldn't mind it being delayed till fall 2011 spring 2011 is so god dam full it's not funny anymore seems like you got to buy a AAA game every 2 weeks.Q1 is the new Q4

 

[patsu]

I haven't been following...

They may fall into the same trap as R2: Too many changes from the original. IMHO, all they needed to do are: Add a party system, remove aim acceleration, add spawn grenade destruction, gimp Assault class, and fix match making.

Is it because when they throw in mech, jet pack, more advanced bots, it's like adding more Assault class nuisance ?

Saluman Market without advanced classes was one of the best FPS experiences for me. It felt like fighting in a holodeck. And we needed to stick together to survive.

 

[Arwin]

reading the comments over @gaf, it seems that kz3 mp is un-repearable broken?!

Ehm, nah. That's way exaggerated. Most of the problems mentioned are either normal for this phase (framerate, which isn't 30fps fixed yet, but that's the main focus for this beta actually according to the devs, to gather data on which circumstances hit framerate), and all sorts of balancing parameters that can a) be tweaked and b) people rarely agree on in the first place, and c) the usual 'we loved Killzone 2 just as it is'. The latter kind of issues get tweaked long after a game is released even, so complaints about those will always be there. Complaints about the match-making are also somewhat unfounded - right now there are many people coming in on whom there's no stats, so the game can't tell how good they are.

Anyway, I think the beta works, in that GG is getting good and useful response. They can roll out quite a few beta patches and tests yet before the game goes live - you don't have to get that part right when the disc is being pressed, after all, just more or less right when the game launches.

 

[patsu]

Betas are double edged swords. They can turn fans away if not handled carefully, and if the developers are not ready yet.

 

[dragonelite]

I haven't been following...

They may fall into the same trap as R2: Too many changes from the original. IMHO, all they needed to do are: Add a party system, remove aim acceleration, add spawn grenade destruction, gimp Assault class, and fix match making.

Is it because when they throw in mech, jet pack, more advanced bots, it's like adding more Assault class nuisance ?

Saluman Market without advanced classes was one of the best FPS experiences for me. It felt like fighting in a holodeck. And we needed to stick together to survive.

Yeah the starting levels were they strongest in killzone 2.
Till about scout after that its becomes a juggle to see which matches dont use the spawn abuse and stuff.

 

[patsu]

I think it's not merely a case of weapon balance in the beta. It's about what kind of experiences GG wants to push.

I just had an amazing MAG gunfight last night (The best yet). Basically, my Raven platoon defended against a Valor platoon for 15+ straight minutes around just 1 bunker. They must have parked a vehicle nearby (and hidden). Even though we could spawn from the bunker, they kept coming back endlessly

We went back and forth, arming and disarming charges barely in time. My Claymore mines went off every 1-2 minutes. The fight was so even that we couldn't spare someone to locate and RPG the vehicle. Because the maps were rather open, they could try different and multiple attack positions. They also tried to setup all their firing points so that we would get killed right after spawning from the bunker. On our side, we spreaded out on the ledge and around the bunker. Charging in small groups to dismantle those tactical firing points, and frantically reviving our teammates, and re-setup Claymores.

The %($%&$* bunker finally fell in the last 4-5 minutes. But there was not enough time for them to do anything. Looks like our other platoons did well too.


Now if 2 platoons were to meet in an objective room in Killzone, it would usually become a mess. There'd be explosion everywhere and all will die within a minute because multiple people launch a rocket into the small (and usually enclosed) space. The MAG spawn vehicle is superior in concept because it's destructible and can be redeployed when someone drives it. The overall experience is very different.

In KZ2, I would specialize in killing and causing as much trouble as possible, which is fun in a different way. But there's less level-headed thinking/strategizing while bullets fire all around me.

 

[patsu]

I didn't know spawn grenades are out:
http://community.killzone.com/t5/Killzone-3-PS3/spawn-and-custom-games-answered/td-p/543345

Q: Spawn Grenades, are they in or out?!
A: Spawn Grenades are out and won’t be coming back. We feel that bringing in Tactical Spawn Points have made the game better, not worse. And this is why: although Spawn Grenades could make or break a battle and turn the tide of the Warzone game, it was causing far more problems than it was solving. In a big number of games this was causing a massive amount of unnecessary spawns, kills and deaths. Sure there are a small number of people who place and use Spawn Grenades correctly, but for the vast majority it was killing the game. They had to go. At the moment we are still tweaking the TPS points to make sure, camping, neutralizing and capturing these points will become as good as we can get it. But we won’t take them out and go back to Spawn Grenades.

Q: Custom Games, are they in or out?!
A: Custom Games are out too. We have chosen for Matchmaking for a couple of reasons: to reduce the large amount of exploits, to make sure players are put in better competitive matches and to make it easier for people to find games. As we have noticed Matchmaking is not working properly yet. We are working hard to fix that, but it doesn’t mean the choice is not valid. Custom games created unreadable lists with a plethora of different games, but very often not the game that a player is trying to find. Yes, we have taken away some of the freedom, but we’ve replaced it with a much easier, user friendly system

First change is probably good (or add spawn grenade destruction, effectively making grenade spawn like MAG's vehicle spawn). Second change may stir the honets' nest. Resistance had custom games and match making at the same time.

 

[Cornsnake]

What about clanwars? In KZ2 those were separate from the server list, so there is no reason not to have them in KZ3. I always preferred doing clanwars in KZ2 over random game joining. We play by our own rules, everyone has a headset, and fewer players means less chaos. That's something matchmaking can't provide.

 

[dragonelite]

What about clanwars? In KZ2 those were separate from the server list, so there is no reason not to have them in KZ3. I always preferred doing clanwars in KZ2 over random game joining. We play by our own rules, everyone has a headset, and fewer players means less chaos. That's something matchmaking can't provide.

In the gaf beta thread i could have sworn that i read that GG is planning on making custom setups for clan matches.

And dam gaf is really harsh on the game.
Already kinda had a feeling when i saw the E3 footage this went to much of the cod way. Probably even posted it in this thread.

 

[patsu]

I skimmed through the GAF thread quickly. I don't know what GG intends to do with clan wars, but I think it's unclear whether the game is in beta or alpha at this point. ^_^

May be they want to speed up testing like Zipper's MAG, but it's a really bad idea when the dev is not ready yet. The match making is not working correctly now, and they took the server list away ? If so, it will cause a lot of wrong impressions and negative feelings. Plus the beta server is probably under spec'ed.

The weapon recoil is also not done yet, giving testers the impression that it's going full out CoD.

It sounds like they are looking for trouble, rather than bugs.

 

[Cornsnake]

In the gaf beta thread i could have sworn that i read that GG is planning on making custom setups for clan matches.

Well I certainly hope so.

It sounds like they are looking for trouble, rather than bugs.

Aren't using a NDA?

 

[patsu]

NDA is probably not enforceable on consumers. ^_^

In any case, NDA or not, fans will be disappointed/shocked by half-done products even if it's in alpha/beta.

 

[Arwin]

Public Betas tend not to have NDAs.

 

[Cornsnake]

Too early to go public then. They should open up the LBP2 beta already.

 

[patsu]

Heh heh, I don't know how it can work out but...


Interview: Katamari Damacy's Takahashi On Life After Namco:
http://gamasutra.com/view/news/31277/Interview_Katamari_Damacys_Takahashi_On_Life_After_Namco.php

Asked if there are any games he's eager to make. "I have a really loose idea for a music game," he says. "But I don't think it would sell very many copies. Also, I had an idea for a first-person at IndieCade. It's something that I'd actually really like to make with [Guerrilla's] Killzone team."

The idea is rather incongruous to Takahashi's previous work. "I'd like to make an FPS in which, every time you shoot an enemy, your character grows larger, and every time you're shot, you grow smaller."

"It would be interesting if the player got carried away by the fact that they grow and shrink so that, in the end, they forget the original purpose of shooting enemies. It would be beneficial to work with a company that specializes in that kind of game, and the Killzone team seemed like a good fit. That kind of strange mix appeals."

 

[dragonelite]

To be fair sounds like a stupid idea.
Why become bigger and a easier target to shoot?
Maybe as a fun mode Gears 3 have mutators planned you know stuff like golden eye on the n64 had Huge heads and stuff. But a games based on that concept will not survive almost 90% sure of it.

 

[Nesh]

To be fair sounds like a stupid idea.
Why become bigger and a easier target to shoot?
Maybe as a fun mode Gears 3 have mutators planned you know stuff like golden eye on the n64 had Huge heads and stuff. But a games based on that concept will not survive almost 90% sure of it.

I believe that his idea will bring a new kind of strategic thinking. Advantage that comes with a disadvantage . I like it

 

[Billy Idol]

I am following the discussion @gaf again - and it is still 100% negative.

I wonder the following: should they even listen to those who praise KZ2 MP? Because when I left KZ2 MP, barely 30,000 where regularly playing it (I am not aware if this was a low point and it is typically much more) - but compare this to popular shooter!

So, is it right or is it wrong to change basic gameplay stuff from one iteration to another?

I hoped that the indeed change KZ2 gameplay in MP - but my hope was that they include now the cover based stuff from SP campaign! I hoped that with this the overall game got slowed down, more tactical, smaller player numbers - from KZ2 more to Gears style MP.

And now, I really wonder how KZ3 will turn out. Besides all the moaning about it not being KZ2 and all the other stuff - for me what counts: is it fun to play or not!? does it motivate me to stay online or not?!
- nothing more, nothing less-

 

[patsu]

They are free to evolve but I think one of the problems is lack of communications. What is KZ3 trying to achieve ? I don't mind switching away from KZ2 if the new experience is unique too.

Also, it has to top the Salamun Market original encounter. It's like a slower paced, team combat game when it first started -- except that the aiming was accelerated and weighted.

RFOM plays like a personalized one man army, MAG plays like a resourceful soldier in a disarrayed team and battlefield, advanced KZ2 plays like a maniac in a bloody battlefield with explosions everywhere, entry level KZ2 plays like a war zone tour, except for the "tricky" aim.

Without a guiding note, the mob may take it in the extreme directions. Also, some of the needs may conflict with each other. They can't listen solely to user feedback.

 

[Billy Idol]

They are free to evolve but I think one of the problems is lack of communications. What is KZ3 trying to achieve ? I don't mind switching away from KZ2 if the new experience is unique too.

Also, it has to top the Salamun Market original encounter. It's like a slower paced, team combat game when it first started -- except that the aiming was accelerated and weighted.

RFOM plays like a personalized one man army, MAG plays like a resourceful soldier in a disarrayed team and battlefield, advanced KZ2 plays like a maniac in a bloody battlefield with explosions everywhere, entry level KZ2 plays like a war zone tour, except for the "tricky" aim.

Without a guiding note, the mob may take it in the extreme directions. Also, some of the needs may conflict with each other. They can't listen solely to user feedback.

Yep, I agree - they should communicate exactly what they want to achieve and in a best case scenario they could discuss the changes and the reasoning behind them. This would make people feel involved and recognized - a good service to the community and the fans and maybe an easier transition from KZ2 to KZ3!?

@patsu: if I remember right, you are in the beta: what do you think about the beta. what is your biggest complain and what do you think is great about it?