[PS3] Killzone 3

[Rolf N]

There's a reason that you can log into Halo 3 or Gears of War and find tens, sometimes hundreds, of thousands playing. Log onto Killzone 2 today and you're lucky to find hundreds playing.

You make it sound overly dramatic.
In its heyday, Killzone 2 pulled in around 200k unique players per week, after a brief 500kish launch peak. It's down to 60k now. Of course, this is a sharp decline, but you shouldn't have any problem finding games.

Don't get confused by the way the stats are tallied. Current day/week/month don't use rolling windows, but restart from zero at fixed intervals.

Killzone 2 has been mismanaged in the way DLC splinters the userbase. Namely, you can't play in a playlist that contains DLC maps you don't own, even if the current running match is on a map you do own (base or other DLC pack). This further means that people with differing DLC purchases can't party up, unless they stick to the lowest common denominator of maps (=only maps on the disc for all intents and purposes). I don't expect a repetition of this same mistake with Killzone 3.

The single biggest reason why Killzone 2 activity has declined though is Call Of Duty 6, which also beats out Halo 3 on the other side.

Speaking of which, help me spot Gears Of War in this list please: http://majornelson.com/archive/2010/08/17/live-activity-for-week-of-aug-9.aspx
(point being that it's normal for people to flock to a select few games for their multiplayer needs; the nature of competition and the element of practice makes it unlikely for multiple MP games to truly thrive side-by-side)

 

[Billy Idol]

This was by far the best demo with respect to content! You could choose 3 different demo levels, all of them showing different things!

Astoundingly, I liked the jet pack gameplay a lot...after short adjusting to this beast, it felt cool...and I always tried to send them death from above ;-)
Although, from an Engineering point of view: how idiotic is it that the jets are right infront of you?! I mean it looks cool and all, but typically when you use the afterburner boost...you should burn and die flying through the hot air

I played the demo a lot, and I have the feeling that the foes did not take so much hits anymore, I think I only needed two fire birsts until they went down - but the best thing was indeed the brutal close combat stuff - this was ultra fun, and looked spectacular: interesting...the button prompt for the brutal close combat is rather far away from the enemy, so you don't have to ran up too close. And typically it is kind of 'QTE' style thing: you only have to press the same button, you often need to press it two times (with the right timing) - felt good!

What is also cool new move: when you are running (pressing the stick) and then press the cover button (L2) ...you do a baseball slide type move. Do it near a cover, and Sev sticks to it after the slide - felt good!

I could also wittness a new death animation, which was very cool and dramatic! They KI is good as ever, and KZ is still a difficult game (lots of the other gamers died a lot during testing, you def have to go behind cover and take them out slowly, it is not run and gun when you are fighting in the open areas!) In rather narrow rooms, you could rush them and use your new close combat tricks, but mind you that you get attacked by other foes during those close combat animations...so its not that save to use it!

Overall, playing the KZ3 demo, felt like meeting a good old friend again, somehow familiar, but somehow new and exciting!

I did not felt that the graphics got a major improvement compared to KZ2. The game looks crisp as hell, although I had in my memory that the IQ of KZ2 was a little bit cleaner?! Standing this near to the screen, I had the impression that the grain filter was rather strong - which I liked! In the demo level, where you fight a tank using the WASP, I had the impression that there is even more war chaos, more particles, more effects, more enemies generally I felt even more immersed than in the KZ2 battles...and this without hearing much sound from the TV!! Also: in these hefty fighting scenes, I did not get a major slowdown (as in KZ2 for instance in one of the final battles). Some textures looked rather high res, some textures did not...I had the impression that some stuff did not get an upgrade yet: for instance the AMMO boxes, where you press O to re-ammo, the animation was exactly the same and the boxed with the grenades and ammo clips lying in looked a little bit low resolution and identical to the boxes in KZ2. Overall the game is a looker (even in the pre-alpha stage) and really has a unique style...even with the new colors and bright setting, it still looks dirty, gritty and has the typical KZ feeling!

 

[AlNom]

Do you still feel like 3ft/1m tall ? Plenty of times I've tried to melee enemies and they just disappear as I walk up to them in KZ2. :|

The game looks crisp as hell, although I had in my memory that the IQ of KZ2 was a little bit cleaner?!

Colour palette? Would be odd to have a crisper Quincunx than without and "MLAA".

 

[Billy Idol]

Do you still feel like 3ft/1m tall ? Plenty of times I've tried to melee enemies and they just disappear as I walk up to them in KZ2. :|

Damn, I did not look out for this! My problem is that I did not had this specific problem in KZ2. Sorry cannot help you there. If you force me to say anything: I remember that the 'Knife in your eye' attack felt like I am as tall as the enemy, but I really did not check this (damn!). But that is probably why the prompt the close combat button now rather far away from the enemy, so that you don't have to run this close up?!

 

[Billy Idol]

Do you still feel like 3ft/1m tall ? Plenty of times I've tried to melee enemies and they just disappear as I walk up to them in KZ2. :|


Colour palette? Would be odd to have a crisper Quincunx than without and "MLAA".

Oh, I stated it wrong: KZ3 was crisp as hell! But it had a few aliasing issues here and there (could it be that MLAA has some problems with nearly horizontal edges, which are slowly moving when you move your stick?) and I remember that KZ2 only had minimal aliasing issues - that was what I meant with cleaner, sorry.

 

[ShadowWolf64]

Sounds fun but I don't like how the new melee attacks are QTE style as it seems the game is holding your hand in that aspect of its gameplay.Did you manage to play the new gametype Guerrilla Warfare?If you did, what are your impressions about it?

 

[Billy Idol]

Sounds fun but I don't like how the new melee attacks are QTE style as it seems the game is holding your hand in that aspect of its gameplay.Did you manage to play the new gametype Guerrilla Warfare?If you did, what are your impressions about it?

It is QTE light.
It works like this:

you run close to an enemy. the button prompts (I think it was L1). You press it, then you hit the enemy with your gun to the head. The enemy turns around. Then there is another button prompt. If you press it, you enter the final death attack, for instance the 'knife in the eye' attack. If you don't press the button, the enemy recovers, turns around and starts fighting/shooting/melee you again. Or you can shoot him now in the back. But this is only one situation, there are a ton of different situations...

there was only SP demo, no MP!

 

[Cornsnake]

Hope they can get the mech balanced.
Why add them it's such gimmick shit that at the end will only annoy people.
Just keep it simple make core gameplay balanced and for the carrot on a stick people just make a shitload of armor customization.

I know this sounds like Halo but there's a reason people still play those games most games with huge community have no gimmicks what so ever that annoy people.

Yeah. If there is one thing I'd like to see gone in online shooters, then it's RPG elements. And of course most online shooters that have RPG elements do seem to realise that it completely screws up the gameplay balance, but instead see that as an opportunity to put some more gameplay unbalancing shit in there.

Hopefully they don't go too crazy with it.

 

[dragonelite]

Yeah. If there is one thing I'd like to see gone in online shooters, then it's RPG elements. And of course most online shooters that have RPG elements do seem to realise that it completely screws up the gameplay balance, but instead see that as an opportunity to put some more gameplay unbalancing shit in there.

Hopefully they don't go too crazy with it.

Yeah same thing with weapon upgrade, balancing 5~8 weapons is doable. But when those weapons get upgrade you just cant balance it.
There always a fotm(flavor of the month) weapon in cod mw 2 that how gamers are best result in as less time they will exploit/break your system and with gimmicks and shit load of weapons and upgrade they will break it. Gotta love the will of gamers to break stuff. And i was one of them after every patch go on forums watch what gave the best result/time and master it. Now i dont have time for that anymore.

 

[patsu]

there was only SP demo, no MP!

Try sophisticated melee actions for Move users please !

EDIT:
What happens if I don't press the button requested by the QTE ? Will the Helghast soldier kill me ?

I don't quite like the QTE-based melee too, even if it's SP only -- not if it's used for every grunt. It may get repetitive. In GoW3, they are optional and more meaningful in mini-bosses and bosses. e.g., I like the one where I can ride the cyclop to wipe out other enemies.

 

[zed]

Speaking of which, help me spot Gears Of War in this list please: http://majornelson.com/archive/2010/...-of-aug-9.aspx
(point being that it's normal for people to flock to a select few games for their multiplayer needs; the nature of competition and the element of practice makes it unlikely for multiple MP games to truly thrive side-by-side)

Interesting the COD do dominate then (at least on the xbox360)
Is there a similar list for the ps3? (hopefully with a better color sceme, orange text on peach background WTF)

 

[ultragpu]

Billy, what did you feel about the Intruder flying sequence graphically speaking? How good did the ocean look generally?

 

[Billy Idol]

Try sophisticated melee actions for Move users please !

EDIT:
What happens if I don't press the button requested by the QTE ? Will the Helghast soldier kill me ?

I don't quite like the QTE-based melee too, even if it's SP only -- not if it's used for every grunt. It may get repetitive. In GoW3, they are optional and more meaningful in mini-bosses and bosses. e.g., I like the one where I can ride the cyclop to wipe out other enemies.

maybe my QTE wording was wrong and you guys get the wrong impression.
When you don't hit the button...nothing happens, you can shoot instead for instance, or run away, go into cover...whatever you like. The Helghast soldier will of corse start to fight you back, maybe with an own melee attack, shooting or he wants to find cover, in one of the attacks, the first blow get him down to the floor. So he needed some time to stand up again...

 

[Billy Idol]

Billy, what did you feel about the Intruder flying sequence graphically speaking? How good did the ocean look generally?

In the intruder scene all the explosions where great and the destruction as well. I checked the ocean...and it looked ok-ish, nothing spectacular to be honest (I had it better in my mind according to the pics floating around)-but I could not concentrate to much on the ocean, as the movement of the intruder was scripted and you had a limited view angle due to the heavy gund you where using. After the flying scene, you 'land' with your intruder, and can run around again...there I checked the ocean again, what I liked was that the waves clashed against the ice block you landed and caused some huge spray - this looked good and the waves looked rather good as well - a cool rough sea...but then I got attacked by those red eyes, and had to challenge them!


Here is a 10min gamescom vid, showing the intruder demo level:

http://www.gamepro.de/index.cfm?pid=386&pk=2729

there you can also see some close combat stuff, when you don't press the button...

 

[patsu]

The screens are fine, but they seem to be missing a little something that KZ2 has. I don't quite know what it is yet.

May be after watching more videos and screens I can pin point it. I am not looking for resolution, HDR, or technical features so far.

In the KZ3 outdoor demo level, the sense of "being there" is somewhat reduced. In KZ2, it's not uncommon to bathe in the smoke and downpour and wind while I fight. In KZ3, they up'ed the scale, and explosion/destruction but the subtle elements faded more into the background. The dancing light effect is also somewhat reduced (Yes, the subtle colors nightshade mentioned). The environment seems less extreme, but the crashing waves redeem it somewhat (although I prefer to fight in it, rather than observing it).
[EDIT: Stereoscopic 3D may change this line of argument altogether, so let's see]

In the indoor level or rather the civilized structures, some KZ2 buildings are less structured (rotten wooden planks, rusted pipes, rags, etc. all over the place). They hide the regular geometries. The KZ3 demo level looks cleaner and more standard like the Vasari's Palace and buildings in other shooters. Hope to see more variety here.

Am curious what they intend to do with Helghast jungle.

 

[ultragpu]

In the intruder scene all the explosions where great and the destruction as well. I checked the ocean...and it looked ok-ish, nothing spectacular to be honest (I had it better in my mind according to the pics floating around)-but I could not concentrate to much on the ocean, as the movement of the intruder was scripted and you had a limited view angle due to the heavy gund you where using. After the flying scene, you 'land' with your intruder, and can run around again...there I checked the ocean again, what I liked was that the waves clashed against the ice block you landed and caused some huge spray - this looked good and the waves looked rather good as well - a cool rough sea...but then I got attacked by those red eyes, and had to challenge them!


Here is a 10min gamescom vid, showing the intruder demo level:

http://www.gamepro.de/index.cfm?pid=386&pk=2729

there you can also see some close combat stuff, when you don't press the button...

Nice man, wish they'll release that demo soon.

 

[ultragpu]

In the KZ3 outdoor demo level, the sense of "being there" is somewhat reduced. In KZ2, it's not uncommon to bathe in the smoke and downpour and wind while I fight. In KZ3, they up'ed the scale, and explosion/destruction but the subtle elements faded more into the background. The dancing light effect is also somewhat reduced (Yes, the subtle colors nightshade mentioned). The environment seems less extreme, but the crashing waves redeem it somewhat (although I prefer to fight in it, rather than observing it).
[EDIT: Stereoscopic 3D may change this line of argument altogether, so let's see]

In the indoor level or rather the civilized structures, some KZ2 buildings are less structured (rotten wooden planks, rusted pipes, rags, etc. all over the place). They hide the regular geometries. The KZ3 demo level looks cleaner and more standard like the Vasari's Palace and buildings in other shooters. Hope to see more variety here.

Am curious what they intend to do with Helghast jungle.

I know what you mean, A typical KZ2 level has those constant rocket artillery homing your way, setting people on fire, knocking down intruders left and right, also the lightning flashing across that hellish sky added even more atmosphere. The frozen shore level though beautiful in its own right, looked calm in comparison. Being a day time level doesn't help either in terms of showing those dynamic lights and shadows.

 

[patsu]

Yeah, I saw Billy_Idol's link a minute ago. The full demo level does look like KZ2 afterall. They haven't forgotten the lighting even while indoor.

Thanks man !

EDIT: The player plunged into the water twice.

Really look forward to the MP game.

 

[botjeter]

There's a reason that you can log into Halo 3 or Gears of War and find tens, sometimes hundreds, of thousands playing. Log onto Killzone 2 today and you're lucky to find hundreds playing.

Arent Halo (especially) Gears synonomous with Xbox?. Very carefully managed ip's. While Sony is one of the worlds biggest publishers. Killzone 2 a big budget game but in essence just another game to them. If it's profitable it's ticked a box. A quality and profitable game in A, B, C etc genres is there goal rather than certain games iconising there console. That's how they seem to work to me. They work very differently to MS and Nintendo. Worth a thread for discussion.

 

[patsu]

Wait a minute... can you die in the intruder segment at all ? I didn't see any real threat. The enemies were all shooting at someone else. The intruder was on rail right ?