[PS3] Killzone 3

[Billy Idol]

They detonated a nuclear bomb in KZ2. I remember the air was filled with ashes. Perhaps you're right. Nuclear winter after that.



Stereoscopic 3D movies are different from 3D games. The 3D effect in games are more pronounced. If you watch it on a 240Hz TV, it should be ok. I believe after that, you'll realize that a lot of the visual volume is missing from today's games.

Yeah, this is what I meant: the nuclear bomb in KZ2 ...

So you think that 3D gaming is better than 3D movies - interesting.

I wonder (although I know that the answer is probably no) if they increase graphic fidelity when playing in 2D mode - would be a nice/noble guesture!?

 

[patsu]

I'm looking for a good 3D monitor myself. Haven't found one yet.

If they can render stereoscopic 3D, I wonder if Guerilla will allow split screen co-op with similar downgrade. It should make both 3D and non-3D gamers happy.

I believe the KZ2 3D demo was done with this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk3SOI9l2kY

 

[nightshade]

So you think that 3D gaming is better than 3D movies - interesting.

Well for one, you have full control of the camera.

 

[Billy Idol]

Well for one, you have full control of the camera.

But I always had the feeling that in fast moving action movie scenes...3D tech suffers the most, making me boo!

Looking at a game, I sure hope that we have a lot of fast moving action scenes

Status: scepticism remains!

 

[patsu]

It depends on the content. In the SonyStyle demo, I much prefer the polar bear documentary to the soccer game and the Meatball animated movie. For gaming, I prefer MotorStorm to SuperStardust HD. I think I saw the Captain Narville 3D demo somewhere (can't remember where anymore). IMHO, its 3D-ness is lesser than MotorStorm 3D. I am hoping they improve it further now that there is a jetpack in the game.

In MotorStorm, the 3D effect is most noticeable when the buggy is in mid-air.

I am also curious to see melee + KZ2's death animations in 3D.

 

[Billy Idol]

It depends on the content. In the SonyStyle demo, I much prefer the polar bear documentary to the soccer game and the Meatball animated movie. For gaming, I prefer MotorStorm to SuperStardust HD. I think I saw the Captain Narville 3D demo somewhere (can't remember where anymore). IMHO, its 3D-ness is lesser than MotorStorm 3D. I am hoping they improve it further now that there is a jetpack in the game.

In MotorStorm, the 3D effect is most noticeable when the buggy is in mid-air.

I am also curious to see melee in 3D.

You did see the 3D gaming stuff in person?

 

[patsu]

Yes, but those are still recorded gameplay videos.

I have a friend who implemented Quake to test out glassless 3D screens. He told me the biggest benefit is the grenade launcher. You can finally aim properly in stereoscopic 3D.

Note that this is a very personal experience, since some people cannot see 3D, or will have a terrible headache when they watch for too long.

 

[Billy Idol]

Yes, but those are still recorded gameplay videos.

I have a friend who implemented Quake to test out glassless 3D screens. He told me the biggest benefit is the grenade launcher. You can finally aim properly in stereoscopic 3D.

Cool!
Sorry for the noob question:
will you need a special TV and glasses to play KZ3 in 3D?

 

[patsu]

Probably yes. 3DTV + 3D glasses.

There was a rumor claiming that GG will distribute free anaglyph 3D glasses with KZ3. These cheap glasses will allow gamers to play KZ2 on a regular TV, but the system may cause eye fatigue after 5-10 minutes. I doubt the rumor is true.

Check the 3D gaming thread for more info.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

will you need a special TV and glasses to play KZ3 in 3D?

Yes. Hence its very limited relevance to the gaming community. New TVs are in the order of $2000 I think.

 

[Billy Idol]

Yes. Hence its very limited relevance to the gaming community. New TVs are in the order of $2000 I think.

Is it probably to early for GG to focus on 3D gaming (maybe they got pushed by SONY)?
3D TVs are not common at the moment, right!
It is also logic that the typical KZ3 audience will not push the 3D TV sales through the roof due to their limited financial resources available - so, there seems to be no strategy argument left!
They could have well waited for KZ4 or something like this, where the effort for a 3D mode would be justified?!?!
Is this the burden you get being a SONY first party...

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Maybe between engine improvements, and dropping some of the post process features, they can fit 3D in without having a big drop in image quality.

I think it was Sebbi who suggested that a deferred renderer is an ideal candidate for 3D because there's a lot of additional information that's stored in the G-buffer anyway (for the lighting and shading) - so creating a stereo version can skip a lot of actual 3D rendering and do it as a sort of post process instead.

I mean, there's the color, depth and normal value for every pixel, and the offset in screen space shouldn't be more than, say, 50 pixels even for far away objects. So if they render in a slightly higher resolution buffer, 1400x720 or so, then maybe they could reconstruct two full res 720p frames for the left and right eye just from the source data. They just have to sort of shift pixels to the left or right by an amount depending on their Z-value, and it'd be in complete 3D and not just stuff mapped to 2D cardboards. Then again some pixels would probably have to be stretched by a small amount, but if they're in the distance and get a little DOF or QAA blur, it'd probably be unnoticeable.

I'm not a programmer, but I believe the above approach could work fairly well. It'd be a huge performance improvement compared to rendering two full 720p buffers, they'd only have to process geometry and lighting once and then perform some additional image processing, for which they already have an established pipeline. I'd say about 20% performance penalty at most, and some additional memory if they want to avoid scaling up the framebuffer.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

All 3D movies I saw up to now (Avatar and Clash of the Titans) are a joke/embarrassing/ridiculous and prove that 3D tech does not work yet!

Never mind that the two are completely different - Avatar was properly filmed in 3D with a stereo camera, whereas Titans was a cheap post process trick.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

KZ2 would be a perfect vehicle for 3D gaming - it probably enhances the game's experience a lot, and the main audience for the game is also the one most likely to upgrade their TV sets to 3D.

Then again, there's the danger of 30fps not being enough for 3D in an FPS game, where you can trun around quickly. Avatar's biggest flaw was the 24fps speed, making quick camera movements act like a strobe on your eyes. But KZ2 isn't such a fast moving game as any FPS on a PC and motion blur will definitely help a lot, too.

 

[Billy Idol]

Never mind that the two are completely different - Avatar was properly filmed in 3D with a stereo camera, whereas Titans was a cheap post process trick.

Thanks for the explanation, so this is the reason why Clash of the Titan looks...the way it looks and has a rather weak 3D effect overall (you could often watch the scenes without your googles!).

But I still thought that 3D in Avatar did not worked very well either - there are a lot of situations where I wished that I watched it in 2D:
Hectic fast scenes - completely blur.
Watching at the border of the screens, reveals that the quality is blurry as well, I wonder what people see when they don't sit centric in the cinema theatre...this should degrade the experience further, right?

EDIT: ah, ok...so 24fps Avatar is the reason that hectic scenes suffer...thanks!

 

[Laa-Yosh]

I'm not sure what you mean, but for gaming you'd probably be free to sit where ever you want to, being at your own home so these things shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Love_In_Rio]

I'm not sure what you mean, but for gaming you'd probably be free to sit where ever you want to, being at your own home so these things shouldn't be a problem.

But wouln´t deep of field and blur be unnecesary in 3d ?. I think i read that 3d already makes the deep of field effect. I´m not sure about blur...

 

[assurdum]

Saw the shoots,look less impressive then KZ2.Probably because of change of settings,now its day time so that awesome lightning cant make as big impact,then there is that 3D thing...

And everything based on the first scans release...don't let me wrong but I'll waiting something of more concrete to say if is it or not impressive...

 

[ultragpu]

I can foresee Captain Narvile giving his speech to the remaining ISAs and alpha squad: each one of you under my command owes me one..hundred..Helghast scalps, and I want my Helghast scalps, or you will die trying! Far away in his underground bunker, a pissed off VIsari's son goes nai nai nai nai!" Maybe you get to carve a helghast sign to your enemy's forehead this time around?

 

[ultragpu]

And everything based on the first scans release...don't let me wrong but I'll waiting something of more concrete to say if is it or not impressive...

Actually at least a couple of them looked really impressive despite being pre ahpha blurry scans.