PS3 in the US press...

[patsu]

Shockingly poor execution is always likely to lead the press to circle like vultures over you. The media can sense a calamity coming and are all too willing to jump aboard the exaggeration bandwagon. If Sony had executed a little better many of these articles would have not arisen and the smoke and mirrors from E3 2005 would not have come back to haunt them so much, they would have remained footnotes only relevant to the hardcore community.

Sony's current situation is a great story, a fantastic serial, the most iconic company in Asia and the most trusted brand in the west is stumbling around like a stoned drug addict. Who would have imagined the launch numbers? Who would have imagined the supply problems? Who would have foreseen the battery issues?

It’ very crazy, you couldn’t have written it. PS3's poorly handled launch is just more for the media to leap on. It's a running theme. Anyone watched Casino Royale yet? Bond backs Blu-Ray, Sony’s CE pushed around the place like no other, they should have been doing stuff like this ages ago, that’s why Morita acquired a movie studio.

The problems with the PS3 UI should be trivial to sort out. Blaming Blu-Ray just doesn’t cut it. Sony have been LAZY with the OS, only a few things to sort out for the XMB for it to become truly awesome. DVD up scaling is a business decision IMO.

Also where’s the PSP redesign? Surely they haven’t been sitting on their asses on this? Surely they didn’t release a handheld without the forethought to plan a product redesign roadmap knowing that such redesigns drive up sales as has been historically proven? These days you just don’t know with Sony any more.

Maybe it’s a running curse, CE seems to be getting back to the Sony of legend and SCEI has suddenly been struck down with utter stupidity? Why did Molly Smith leave the PR team? Dille is such a cretin…

They have everything in the company from the design talent, the technical expertise and exclusive compelling content to deliver products which should be unmatched by any competitor. Total failure by management. When you see a company like Apple suddenly become a darling of the masses you just have to laugh, Sony's execution is ridiculously poor. I don’t know if Stringer is the man to turn it around, Sony needs someone like Jobs to grab the bull by the horns and get the company into rehab. Hopefully Sony gets back on track.

Yay ! The thread is back on track. Agree in principle that the fault lies with the management for missing the beat and the marketing for missing the meat (and the "air cover").

EDIT: I don't think the OS team has been lazy. They are just swarmed with requirements since they are at the center of the universe now.
Still the same 2 things -- Post launch, Sony needs to focus and plan its roll out more efficiently and effectively *from end user perspective*. Also Marketing and PR need to look internally to reflect on what all the nice PS3 extras mean to Sony and its userbase. There are silver linings there.

 

[London Geezer]

"ome on now, we're talking about the company who tried to convince us that the Xbox was "3X more powerful than the PS2 cause it can move 150M polygons per second".


At least the Xbox showed consistently better graphics out of the gate than the PS2. Even rushed ports at launch looked and ran better than the PS2 versions. This is not the case with the PS3, and like another posted said what does MS have to do with Sony's lies?

Hey i didn't bring it up, just putting things in perspective for people who think that one company's lies are "an order of magnitude worse" than other companies' lies.

Let's finish this derailment now or the already-bad thread will get locked.

 

[nonamer]

Come on now, we're talking about the company who tried to convince us that the Xbox was "3X more powerful than the PS2 cause it can move 150M polygons per second".

They're all as bad as each other. Short memory is a bad thing.

Let's not forget this thing either:

 

[swanlee]

"Let's not forget this thing either:"


And I will put Splinter Cell Chaos theory for the Xbox against that pic. The original Xbox had excellent graphics for it's time, I do not think Xbox power can really be questioned. The PS2 on the other hand never had toy story quality graphics and from a hardware/graphic standpoints was a real disappointment.

 

[Bobbler]

"Let's not forget this thing either:"


And I will put Splinter Cell Chaos theory for the Xbox against that pic. The original Xbox had excellent graphics for it's time, I do not think Xbox power can really be questioned. The PS2 on the other hand never had toy story quality graphics and from a hardware/graphic standpoints was a real disappointment.

The PS2 wasn't the one that was supposed to have Toy Story quality graphics -- that was Xbox, again. Either way, it doesn't matter. This argument is pretty stupid. PS2's launch hyperbole about graphics was pretty much matched and surpassed (the early tech demos were easily surpassed by games) -- they were pretty honest with the PS2 (as far as showing demos go) and there's still people claiming they lied... seems they lose either way! If they are going to be called liars, they might as well do it the way they did with PS3 and just show CGI and claim it can render the world in real time -- nobody seems to remember correctly in the end anyway (I'm probably not either!).

 

[Sankari]

"Let's not forget this thing either:"


And I will put Splinter Cell Chaos theory for the Xbox against that pic. The original Xbox had excellent graphics for it's time, I do not think Xbox power can really be questioned. The PS2 on the other hand never had toy story quality graphics and from a hardware/graphic standpoints was a real disappointment.

See, this is what I find so amusing. People claiming that PS2 was supposed to have Toy Story graphics when it was actually MS that claimed that for theyr machine. I wonder what else MS said that is used against Sony.

 

[Jon Brittan]

Can we please get back on topic and discuss Avaya's recent post along with, possibly, someone posting some other general publication articles, as I originally requested...

Who told what lies is irrelevant beyond the point that it is possible that some of what Sony said is part of the reason for the reaction in the mainstream press being displayed in the initial articles.

 

[22psi]

Shockingly poor execution is always likely to lead the press to circle like vultures over you. The media can sense a calamity coming and are all too willing to jump aboard the exaggeration bandwagon. If Sony had executed a little better many of these articles would have not arisen and the smoke and mirrors from E3 2005 would not have come back to haunt them so much, they would have remained footnotes only relevant to the hardcore community.

Sony's current situation is a great story, a fantastic serial, the most iconic company in Asia and the most trusted brand in the west is stumbling around like a stoned drug addict. Who would have imagined the launch numbers? Who would have imagined the supply problems? Who would have foreseen the battery issues?

It’ very crazy, you couldn’t have written it. PS3's poorly handled launch is just more for the media to leap on. It's a running theme. Anyone watched Casino Royale yet? Bond backs Blu-Ray, Sony’s CE pushed around the place like no other, they should have been doing stuff like this ages ago, that’s why Morita acquired a movie studio.

The problems with the PS3 UI should be trivial to sort out. Blaming Blu-Ray just doesn’t cut it. Sony have been LAZY with the OS, only a few things to sort out for the XMB for it to become truly awesome. DVD up scaling is a business decision IMO.

Also where’s the PSP redesign? Surely they haven’t been sitting on their asses on this? Surely they didn’t release a handheld without the forethought to plan a product redesign roadmap knowing that such redesigns drive up sales as has been historically proven? These days you just don’t know with Sony any more.

Maybe it’s a running curse, CE seems to be getting back to the Sony of legend and SCEI has suddenly been struck down with utter stupidity? Why did Molly Smith leave the PR team? Dille is such a cretin…

They have everything in the company from the design talent, the technical expertise and exclusive compelling content to deliver products which should be unmatched by any competitor. Total failure by management. When you see a company like Apple suddenly become a darling of the masses you just have to laugh, Sony's execution is ridiculously poor. I don’t know if Stringer is the man to turn it around, Sony needs someone like Jobs to grab the bull by the horns and get the company into rehab. Hopefully Sony gets back on track.

interesting post.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

Am I the only one who thinks it might have benefited Sony if they missed this Holiday season?

With all these problems (all the ones Bobbler refuses to acknowledge), and tremendous supply issues, wouldn't it have been beneficial to just do a world wide launch in March (assuming the issues are worked out by then).

Even with stockpiling units from now until then, they'd still sell out at launch. Yet they'd avoid the bad press, and they'd also seriously hurt the 360's holiday season this year because people would still be waiting to see what the PS3 offered.

As it is, Sony has played their hand by launching and putting display units everywhere, people no longer have to wait for the magically superior PS3. So now consumers have the ability to compare the machines directly, but only one of the machines is actually available.

I think the bad press + the display units + lack of stock is a perfect storm of sorts.

 

[Bobbler]

(all the ones Bobbler refuses to acknowledge)

What issues have I refused to acknowledge?

 

[avaya]

Am I the only one who thinks it might have benefited Sony if they missed this Holiday season?

With all these problems (all the ones Bobbler refuses to acknowledge), and tremendous supply issues, wouldn't it have been beneficial to just do a world wide launch in March (assuming the issues are worked out by then).

Even with stockpiling units from now until then, they'd still sell out at launch. Yet they'd avoid the bad press, and they'd also seriously hurt the 360's holiday season this year because people would still be waiting to see what the PS3 offered.

As it is, Sony has played their hand by launching and putting display units everywhere, people no longer have to wait for the magically superior PS3. So now consumers have the ability to compare the machines directly, but only one of the machines is actually available.

I think the bad press + the display units + lack of stock is a perfect storm of sorts.

They need to wittle the 360's lead down ASAP and need to build a nice big cushion in Japan against Wii so they can withstand the initial sell-thorugh of the machine there, riding the storm to bring in the flagship titles later in 2007.

No matter how great/poorly 360 is selling in North America the fact is the early start has really helped Microsoft. They will make massive gains in the US. I expect a SNES-Genesis easily.

Had Sony met their original 4m target they would be in a very nice position. Missing the vastly reduced targets of today hurts them in a lot of ways. If Wii starts to steam-roller in Japan, there is no way 3 can match it in sales, it will be gone and away, the country is a one-console arena, you need to get going ASAP to make sure you don't miss the boat there.

In the US they needed to get the units out to satisfy the movie studios and their hardware partners on Blu-Ray. It would have been the final nail in the HD-DVD coffin becuase there would have been no way that Universal could afford to stay on HD-DVD only at that point. The way things have gone HD-DVD still has hope. Right now Disney is wavering.

Europe is kind of irrelevant and it doesn't matter that they haven't launched here to be honest. People are still waiting for the PS3 and the 360 continues to sell poorly. Wii could gain some huge traction but that's 50:50 in my view. PS2 has a lot of legs here.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

They need to wittle the 360's lead down ASAP and need to build a nice big cushion in Japan against Wii so they can withstand the initial sell-thorugh of the machine there, riding the storm to bring in the flagship titles later in 2007.

I don't think 400k units in NA is going to make that big of a difference. How many PS3s do you think will get into homes by March 07?

To combat the Wii, maybe they should have done a Japan-first launch. Provide a beachfront against the Wii and work on getting their kinks resolved before the NA media gets ahold of it.

(Bobbler: The kinks I'm referring to all the ones outlined in the articles in the OP that you spent the first two pages of the thread refuting/explaining away as irrelevant.)

No matter how great/poorly 360 is selling in North America the fact is the early start has really helped Microsoft. They will make massive gains in the US. I expect a SNES-Genesis easily.

I agree that it's certainly helped MS, it was a very good move. But not necessarily because of the installed base. It's helped MS because they've been able to address all their own issues by the time the PS3 released, and as the articles here prove, consoles will be graded against what is available to consumers as an option at the time.

Which is why it's completely fair for reviewers to complain that the PS3 can't do things the 360 does, even if the 360 couldn't do those things itself at launch.. MS 'bought' the positive end of that comparison from launching early.

If PS3 were delayed until all the negatives mentioned in this article were fixed, reviewers would be left talking about the advantages of the PS3 over the 360, not the advantages and disadvantages.

Had Sony met their original 4m target they would be in a very nice position. Missing the vastly reduced targets of today hurts them in a lot of ways.

Agreed, thats why supply is a huge part of my question. I think Sony having units trickle out that can't fill demand and don't meet expectations is horrific. Expectations feed demand, and if expectation falls then demand will follow.

In the US they needed to get the units out to satisfy the movie studios and their hardware partners on Blu-Ray. It would have been the final nail in the HD-DVD coffin becuase there would have been no way that Universal could afford to stay on HD-DVD only at that point. The way things have gone HD-DVD still has hope. Right now Disney is wavering.

Don't know what you're saying here? Do you mean it would have been the final nail in the Blu-Ray if the PS3 hadn't launched until Mar 07?

 

[Cheezdoodles]

I think its unfair to judge the PS3's extra functions based on the fact that PCs and 360 can do them as well.
These functionalities should be judged as they are and that they are there. Now if the PS3 doesnt do this well enough is a different matter and should be mentioned.

But on the other hand the console was just launched, The 360 (and the PC) have some better functionality in some of the same features after lots of trial and error and testing from consumers. Problems are better noted down and fixed after extensive use from the consumer who give the feedback. This gives birth to updates and upgrades to improve the experience. 360 has had these benefits for a year and not only. PS3 though came this month and it hasnt matured.
Its bound to have issues at first. Its inevitable.

On the contrary of these articles I think Sony has done a great job so far to fit all these in one device in such a limited period. MS on the other hand already had experience, feedback and the likes from both the PC and especially the PC, plus the XBOX. I wouldnt rate PS3's non-game functionalities perfect or as the best thing since sliced bread. But I think its unfair to downplay the effort and avoid possible logical and unavodable reasons behind the problems.

I doubt Sony will leave these issues, ( "glitches", unfinished work or whatever we want to call them) unsolved and the PSP is already an indication.

For now consumers have to deal with a brand which only recently has lost truelly its "virginity" in these features. As a result inevitably these issues will exist at launch.
And since Sony tried to bombard the consumer with so many features in one device at once and immediately, the issues will be more and complicated. Its impossible for these not to exist. I doubt that Sony would have detected them all before launch. The consumer is a better detecting machine at those. No company is as capable as the consumer in that regard.

Ofcourse its fair to judge them. As a consumer you compare products to eachother. Right NOW the X360 does things better in alot of areas than the PS3. Thus, if the areas that the X360 is better on, is areas that are important to you, the x360 is a better gaming console right now.

A consumer will not go around thinking about if its fair or not in comparing the two console, only because MS has a better experience in making console OSes. WE DONT CARE. If its not there, we should complain, bitch and moan about it, until it is there.

 

[Bobbler]

(Bobbler: The kinks I'm referring to all the ones outlined in the articles in the OP that you spent the first two pages of the thread refuting/explaining away as irrelevant.)

That's probably because they are mostly irrelevant. I pointed out two issues (which I hope they fix fast), but you'd have to be insane to argue that they were all actual issues.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

That's probably because they are mostly irrelevant. I pointed out two issues (which I hope they fix fast), but you'd have to be insane to argue that they were all actual issues.

Irrelevant to you, not to others. Call me names all you want, but all of the issues in the NYT are actual issues that reflect poorly upon the PS3 and Sony's strategy (I already called the TIMES piece garbage, so there's no point in discussing that.). I think that bit of this thread has been debated enough, although if you continue to insist that Sony has few to no issues at launch and the NYT article is simply blantant trolling, it will be difficult for you to participate in the 'what if Sony delayed its launch' discussion.

Points that these issues with the PS3 should be relatively easy to fix are relevant for the idea that I proposed, which was if Sony wouldn't have benefited from actually delaying its launch (further).

 

[onanie]

Ofcourse its fair to judge them. As a consumer you compare products to eachother. Right NOW the X360 does things better in alot of areas than the PS3. Thus, if the areas that the X360 is better on, is areas that are important to you, the x360 is a better gaming console right now.

A consumer will not go around thinking about if its fair or not in comparing the two console, only because MS has a better experience in making console OSes. WE DONT CARE. If its not there, we should complain, bitch and moan about it, until it is there.

There is no reason to doubt that the remaining issues will be fixed on subsequent firmwares, and I'm not sure why you think you would be in a unique position of knowing this compared to the "average" consumer. Still, the core functionality is intact - games remain as enjoyable to consumers. A consumer who decides to go PS3 because he sees a lot of good points, isn't going to be put off significantly by these temporary issues.

 

[quest55720]

There is no reason to doubt that the remaining issues will be fixed on subsequent firmwares, and I'm not sure why you think you would be in a unique position of knowing this compared to the "average" consumer. Still, the core functionality is intact - games remain as enjoyable to consumers. A consumer who decides to go PS3 because he sees a lot of good points, isn't going to be put off significantly by these temporary issues.

I would say till the scaling issue is fixed core functionality is broken for many consumers.

 

[onanie]

I would say till the scaling issue is fixed core functionality is broken for many consumers.

Many perhaps, but not the core group that will buy the PS3. For the one who is affected, there is always an option not to buy it until it is fixed, I agree. For those who aren't, why the sincere concern?

 

[quest55720]

Many perhaps, but not the core group that will buy the PS3. For the one who is affected, there is always an option not to buy it until it is fixed, I agree. For those who aren't, why the sincere concern?

I would say people with HD ready 1080I only TVs are part of the core group who would buy a PS3. It is not like sony has let the consumers know about this issue. They did not say a peep about something that I consider pretty major. I don't know about you but I would be pretty bent after spending days camping or worse several thousand on ebay to find out the PS3 does not output HD to your TV.

 

[patsu]

It is not like sony has let the consumers know about this issue. They did not say a peep about something that I consider pretty major.

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=878078&postcount=284