PS3 in the US press...

[heliosphere]

There is no argument in my mind at all, I simply don't have the energy to engage with you ad-naseum over something that's so clear cut.

We've got some people arguing that the articles aren't hard enough on the PS3, some arguing that they're too hard and some arguing that they're perfectly fair. In many cases you can predict where someone will fall on that scale based on known platform preferences. What are the chances that these non-gaming journalists, who probably don't know enough about gaming to have developed strong ****** tendencies in any particular direction, are actuall less biased than most of the people arguing on these forums? I usually think it's a pretty good sign that news is balanced when it's accused of bias in both directions by people on either side of the issue and seen as fair by some.

 

[patsu]

And that's kind of the point. You're making out like these reviews are clearly biased with glaring ommisions of major PS3 features that everyone could want. Now you're admitting that we could argue for ever over whether these features are really that relevant to the majority of consumers. I don't think these articles are ignoring any major features that aren't of debatable value.

If you insists on talking about "majority"... majority of the gamers are not online (i.e., playing online games on XBL, or any other game consoles) yet. Does that make the entire XBL worthless and not newsworthy ? Do gamers not care about build quality ?

While many salient points about PS3 was mentioned in the articles, they are highlighted only for the negative aspects. Yes they are biased or narrowly focused on usability (although it's an important thing).

I'd rather they talk about the scaling issues in PS3 and prompt Sony to do something faster.

 

[Qroach]

You want me to make a list?

Ok.

- Local movie file playback up to HD
- The photo browsing options
- The ability to put other Operating Systems on the machine and completely change its characteristics (currently you can make it look like a PC..going forward it might be the best HTPC you ever had)
- The open nature of the system w.r.t. peripherals. Need a HDD upgrade on 'the other system'? Whoops. Meanwhile you can drop in something off-the-shelf on PS3. Ditto with things like headsets and the like. It's more consumer friendly, more expandable, and that's definitely a big and very relevant point for any user of the system. Heck, some people are using PC controllers on their PS3!
- Open web browsing
- Much more comprehensive backwards compatibility with a much wider catalogue of games
- That the online service is free

There's more, and there's more I won't touch because technically the article does mention them - but only as part of a roundly negative point.

Well i do agree this is a decent list, but also a few have counters. Like

- Local movie file playback up to HD (streaming file playback from PC)
- The photo browsing options (I'm not sure what you mean here, but you can do the same on the 360 and stream from you PC.)
- The ability to put other Operating Systems on the machine (this I don't see as an important feature to the general consumers). if anyone has a PC and like linux, they are going to be better off running it there. Putting linux onto the ps3 is a convoluted mess imo.
- The open nature of the system w.r.t. peripherals. (this is both a good and bad thing as it will allow people to have lots of choice, there will be hardware incompatibilities with some hardware and no way to debug the issue. I've already heard reports of headsets, corrupted save files and numerous other issues relating to this and linux installs.
- Open web browsing (again something better on a PC)
- Much more comprehensive backwards compatibility with a much wider catalogue of games (true)
- That the online service is free (still waiting to see how this pans out)

Of course the system has flaws and issues that should be fixed, but I don't think you can say the article isn't taking a magnifying glass to them. I'm not going to say it's disingenuous on their part because it's probably one half ignorance, and one half people complaining loudly (mixed with a little classic hype-countering that journalists often like to engage in), but people here should probably know better when it comes to forming their own impression.

Agreed, I think it's a case of directly comparing features of a new platform with one that has had the early start advantage. it's never going to be a fair comparison. There's plenty of xbox 360 features he also didn't mention in comparison. So to say some features are "left out" would works for both sides of the comparison.

 

[Titanio]

Well i do agree this is a decent list, but also a few have counters. Like

- Local movie file playback up to HD (streaming file playback from PC)

The latter is no substitute for the former. It's a nice supplement to the former, and something I'd like to see on PS3 also (although you could probably work something out via the browser, or just share with an external HDD anyway..), but it does satisfy the qualifier of having something "the other doesn't".

- The photo browsing options (I'm not sure what you mean here, but you can do the same on the 360 and stream from you PC.)

I meant specifically the quality of the options, the photo album option. It is 'nicer', at least from what I've seen.

- The open nature of the system w.r.t. peripherals. (this is both a good and bad thing as it will allow people to have lots of choice, there will be hardware incompatibilities with some hardware and no way to debug the issue. I've already heard reports of headsets, corrupted save files and numerous other issues relating to this and linux installs.

This harks back to something another poster was saying earlier - people complaining about new-found 'problems' thanks to nice features on the system. I'm referring to some hardware not working - the fact that some does work is better than none but proprietary working. Re. corrupted save files or the like, I'm not sure I've seen any clear relationship drawn between that and using generic periperhals.

- Open web browsing (again something better on a PC)

"better on PC" isn't really a decent comeback on this or other points. You might aswell say lots of things are better on one device or another. This is/was about what one specific system was doing that another specific system was not, or features of note. A system does not have to be the best at everything for the things it does do to be of notable value.

Agreed, I think it's a case of directly comparing features of a new platform with one that has had the early start advantage. it's never going to be a fair comparison. There's plenty of xbox 360 features he also didn't mention in comparison. So to say some features are "left out" would works for both sides of the comparison.

Absolutely, agreed. That's all my point is, that a comprehensive comparison or critique was not the aim of the author, and that it would be unwise to form a general impression based on it alone.

 

[patsu]

Agreed, I think it's a case of directly comparing features of a new platform with one that has had the early start advantage. it's never going to be a fair comparison. There's plenty of xbox 360 features he also didn't mention in comparison. So to say some features are "left out" would works for both sides of the comparison.

This is not universally true though. There are a few dynamics here:
* Comparing PS3 to Xbox 360 where the latter is stronger (check)
* Comparing PS3 to Xbox 360 where the former is stronger (Not present in the article).
* Highlight PS3's unique strengths (downplayed)

 

[scooby_dooby]

"The latter is no substitute for the former. It's a nice supplement to the former, and something I'd like to see on PS3 also (although you could probably work something out via the browser, or just share with an external HDD anyway..), but it does satisfy the qualifier of having something "the other doesn't"

You still haven't answered the question as to where these video files are going to come from.

If they are illegal downloads, they won't be supported unless re-encoded, since not much stuff is MPEG encoded on the net.

 

[Titanio]

You still haven't answered the question as to where these video files are going to come from.

If they are illegal downloads, they won't be supported unless re-encoded, since not much stuff is MPEG encoded on the net.

Where do videos on your PC come, for that matter? You can download videos via the browser, you can transfer them off a USB device, you can take them off data CDs or DVDs..there's few possibilities not covered here.

 

[wco81]

Some questions on points raised in this thread.

Can you stream media from any XP PC or does it have to be Media Center Edition?

Also, the X360 Friends List, can you make yourself invisible permanently so that people don't know what you're doing or whether you're even online or using your X360 in any way?

 

[heliosphere]

This is not universally true though. There are a few dynamics here:
* Comparing PS3 to Xbox 360 where the latter is stronger (check)

There's plenty of 360 advantages that aren't mentioned as well.

* Comparing PS3 to Xbox 360 where the former is stronger (Not present in the article).

How about "Measured in megaflops, gigabytes and other technical benchmarks, the PlayStation 3 is certainly the world’s most powerful game console." (NYTimes), "the Playstation3 is powered by a stupendously powerful chip, the "Cell processor." " (TIME), "It's got some good-looking games, but unless you have a top-notch TV, the difference isn't mind-blowing." (TIME) (Implying the games do actually look better than the 360, which so far is not the case), "The PS3, which was introduced in North America on Friday with a hefty $599 price tag for the top version, certainly delivers gorgeous graphics. But they are not discernibly prettier than the Xbox 360’s. " (NYTimes) (Same implication, that the PS3 games don't actually look worse than the 360 at the moment).

* Highlight PS3's unique strengths (downplayed)

"one of Sony’s main selling points has been that the PS3 plays Blu-Ray high-definition movie discs." (NYTimes), "It doubles as a Blu-Ray DVD player (that's the main reason for the high retail price)" (TIME)

 

[heliosphere]

Can you stream media from any XP PC or does it have to be Media Center Edition?

With Media Player 11 and Media Centre Extender you can stream from any XP PC.

 

[quest55720]

This is not universally true though. There are a few dynamics here:
* Comparing PS3 to Xbox 360 where the latter is stronger (check)
* Comparing PS3 to Xbox 360 where the former is stronger (Not present in the article).
* Highlight PS3's unique strengths (downplayed)

Those unique strengths are all non-gaming. This is a gaming console first and foremost I don't see why the media should mention some things only a few hardcore tech geeks will take advantage of. If the writer really wanted to nail sony to the wall he could of with the scaling issue. The writer more than anything is just disapointed the PS3 could not live up to the E3 2005 hype and is expressing that.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Some questions on points raised in this thread.

Can you stream media from any XP PC or does it have to be Media Center Edition?

Also, the X360 Friends List, can you make yourself invisible permanently so that people don't know what you're doing or whether you're even online or using your X360 in any way?

Audio files/playlists and WMV video can be streamed from any XP PC, you don't need WMP11, just media connect.

 

[wco81]

With Media Player 11 and Media Centre Extender you can stream from any XP PC.

Are these free downloads?

What about Linux or Mac? Actually, I know they won't, since MS wants X360 to help sell only Windows, not other OSes.

So it's actually a tie-in strategy rather than necessarily a consumer benefit.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Are these free downloads?

What about Linux or Mac? Actually, I know they won't, since MS wants X360 to help sell only Windows, not other OSes.

So it's actually a tie-in strategy rather than necessarily a consumer benefit.

Yes, and there are already equivalent software out for Mac, for free as well I think.

I hardly think MS is using the 360 to push windows, more the other way around, leveraging the huge windows install base to move 360's, by giving the majority of consumers functionality that works with their existing PC's.

 

[one]

Those unique strengths are all non-gaming.

In addition to the PS Store implemented on the web, a game can invoke a web browser from within a game (Dokodemo Issho available in JPN PS Store does it already). Also guess how web API can expand gaming... NPC AI can use Google in the background.

 

[Nesh]

I think its unfair to judge the PS3's extra functions based on the fact that PCs and 360 can do them as well.
These functionalities should be judged as they are and that they are there. Now if the PS3 doesnt do this well enough is a different matter and should be mentioned.

But on the other hand the console was just launched, The 360 (and the PC) have some better functionality in some of the same features after lots of trial and error and testing from consumers. Problems are better noted down and fixed after extensive use from the consumer who give the feedback. This gives birth to updates and upgrades to improve the experience. 360 has had these benefits for a year and not only. PS3 though came this month and it hasnt matured.
Its bound to have issues at first. Its inevitable.

On the contrary of these articles I think Sony has done a great job so far to fit all these in one device in such a limited period. MS on the other hand already had experience, feedback and the likes from both the PC and especially the PC, plus the XBOX. I wouldnt rate PS3's non-game functionalities perfect or as the best thing since sliced bread. But I think its unfair to downplay the effort and avoid possible logical and unavodable reasons behind the problems.

I doubt Sony will leave these issues, ( "glitches", unfinished work or whatever we want to call them) unsolved and the PSP is already an indication.

For now consumers have to deal with a brand which only recently has lost truelly its "virginity" in these features. As a result inevitably these issues will exist at launch.
And since Sony tried to bombard the consumer with so many features in one device at once and immediately, the issues will be more and complicated. Its impossible for these not to exist. I doubt that Sony would have detected them all before launch. The consumer is a better detecting machine at those. No company is as capable as the consumer in that regard.

 

[groper]

Also, the X360 Friends List, can you make yourself invisible permanently so that people don't know what you're doing or whether you're even online or using your X360 in any way?

yes you can . From your privacy settings you can choose : allow everyone to see your online status and/or profile - allow only your friends - none of them.
Alternately you can simply disable autosign-in so that every time you turn on your console , you will not sign in xbl automatically.

 

[wco81]

Yes, and there are already equivalent software out for Mac, for free as well I think.

I hardly think MS is using the 360 to push windows, more the other way around, leveraging the huge windows install base to move 360's, by giving the majority of consumers functionality that works with their existing PC's.

There was a Wired article around the time the X360 launched.

Author got to interview Ballard, Bach and others and concluded X360 was a beachhead to get more Media Center PCs into the living room with the built-in extender functionality.

 

[patsu]

There's plenty of 360 advantages that aren't mentioned as well.

Sure but the article is about PS3, not Xbox 360. So there is no point in listing all the functionalities in Xbox 360 ?

How about "Measured in megaflops, gigabytes and other technical benchmarks, the PlayStation 3 is certainly the world’s most powerful game console." (NYTimes), "the Playstation3 is powered by a stupendously powerful chip, the "Cell processor." " (TIME), "It's got some good-looking games, but unless you have a top-notch TV, the difference isn't mind-blowing." (TIME) (Implying the games do actually look better than the 360, which so far is not the case), "The PS3, which was introduced in North America on Friday with a hefty $599 price tag for the top version, certainly delivers gorgeous graphics. But they are not discernibly prettier than the Xbox 360’s. " (NYTimes) (Same implication, that the PS3 games don't actually look worse than the 360 at the moment).

"one of Sony’s main selling points has been that the PS3 plays Blu-Ray high-definition movie discs." (NYTimes), "It doubles as a Blu-Ray DVD player (that's the main reason for the high retail price)" (TIME)

You forgot about the "Nobody cares" quote in the article (refering to Blu-ray)
Like I said, when these features are mentioned, it is downplayed. You can refer to my previous post and Titanio's for the lists.

As for whether the games require top-notch TV to be mind-blowing, it depends on what's amazing about them (I don't think they are all about sharp/pretty pictures). Resistance is still a good game with many things happening at the same time (and I assume it will still rain/snow on a low/mid-end TV... assuming those scenes are impressive like what people seem to say). The MotorStorm demo is still going to be hectic and bumpy as hell.

Those unique strengths are all non-gaming. This is a gaming console first and foremost I don't see why the media should mention some things only a few hardcore tech geeks will take advantage of. If the writer really wanted to nail sony to the wall he could of with the scaling issue. The writer more than anything is just disapointed the PS3 could not live up to the E3 2005 hype and is expressing that.

What is SIXAXIS ? It's not even mentioned in the article.
How about the additional 40Gb of disk space ? and WiFi ? (since they are using 600 USD as the benchmark). These hardware help to make gaming more convenient. HDD helps to make more games load fasters (like what Genji is doing), my wife would kill me if I pull a cable all the way from second floor to my family room.
Is MotorStorm demo not impressive enough ?
Isn't silent operation and a solid build quality that allows PS3 to run continuously a good thing for gamers ?
Free online gaming ?
...

What "only a few hardcore tech geeks" technologies are you thinking of ? I did not list any Linux capability in my post. I didn't even talk about Blu-ray (Blu-ray Java and Blu-ray LIVE, whatever that is). I looked through the article quickly. I also don't see anything about E3 2005.

Like I said, nailing Sony to the wall with scaling issue is good for the consumers if the lack-of-feature is indeed a major thing.

EDIT:
Ok... Sony replied. Looks like it will be a firmware upgrade to address the issue.
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=878078&postcount=284

 

[mrcorbo]

- Local movie file playback up to HD

The 360 doesn't completely lack this feature, it's just limited. You can place a data DVD with WMV files in the drive and it can play them. I archive HDTV to WMV format on DVD for special events (Super Bowl, Grammy musical performances, etc.) and the ability to just pop one of these in the 360 for playback is a nice plus.