PS3 HDD REQUIRED to Play Games but is NOT Standard?

[Phil]

Every person in this thread is assuming that Sony will require their own proprietary harddrive for PS3...but from KK's speech, I gather any standard 2.5" laptop drive will work in that slot...kind of like any generic magicgate memory stick will work in the PSP...DO IT SONY! NON-PROPRIETARY HDD FOR THE WIN!!!

PS...as an incentive to move their own HDD peripheral, they will preload it with bundled games/apps/utilities/Linux.

I think your post was right on the money. Exactly my thoughts: PS3 will require a HD - the option where and how the HD is purchases is up to the consumer. It can either be bought with a PS3 (perhaps initial PS3 will come bundled with it), from Sony with linux on it or from any HD vendor that sells a compatible HD (2.5", SATA).

How and if this is a good or a bad move will show I guess. Depending on the price (I'm strongly assuming a bundled PS3 with HD will be between $399 and $449) and that initially only one version will be sold, I think it'll be a great move. The first lot will be sold regardless. Once casuals start gaining interest, they may be already on 60nm and be able to bring down the price of the HD bundled version to $349 (depending how well it sells of course).

As a geek, I like the move. It's brilliant for me and much better than the route MS has taken IMO. The problem with Microsoft's move is that no developer will really make a game around the HD knowing not everyone will have one. As such, its uses are limited. A PS3 that does require the HD though, developers can really exploit the HD and make something extraordinary. If and to how good use they will is of course left to be seen - I can only hope it will enjoy a better usage than the Xbox did.

 

[Platon]

As a geek, I like the move. It's brilliant for me and much better than the route MS has taken IMO. The problem with Microsoft's move is that no developer will really make a game around the HD knowing not everyone will have one. As such, its uses are limited. A PS3 that does require the HD though, developers can really exploit the HD and make something extraordinary. If and to how good use they will is of course left to be seen - I can only hope it will enjoy a better usage than the Xbox did.

You know MS has already tried that move, you know, xbox1, remember, a HDD in each and everyone of them. It didn't really lead to any extraordinary new gameplay mechanistics, did it. And developers can still support the HDD, all these huge gammng world that could be streamed from the HDD and eliminate load times and what not, can still be done, it is just for those without a HDD, they will have to suffer huge and frequent load times, it sucks for them, but it is their choice...

 

[Phil]

You know MS has already tried that move, you know, xbox1, remember, a HDD in each and everyone of them. It didn't really lead to any extraordinary new gameplay mechanistics, did it.

You should read my post again, I even mentioned it in my last sentence.

And developers can still support the HDD, all these huge gammng world that could be streamed from the HDD and eliminate load times and what not, can still be done, it is just for those without a HDD, they will have to suffer huge and frequent load times, it sucks for them, but it is their choice...

The thing is, huge gaming worlds being streamed isn't really the potential I'm excited about - in fact, that's something I've already enjoyed on a PS2 without any HD at all.

Perhaps the Xbox was a bit too advanced for its time including the HD as standard. I'm pretty certain if Xbox360 would have featured the HD as standard, it would enjoy a better usage than the Xbox would have. Why? Technology advances and with more capable hardware, you find new areas and ideas to exploit it. I'm sure with the service LIVE is turning into and evolving, a HD as standard would open even more ideas. The notion "they can still support those that have a HD while ensuring it also works without" might be true, but will ultimately be a limited one. Those that will target a HD to its absolute fullest and center their game around that aspect will not be able to make that game without one, and therein lies the difference. That's pretty much the reason why I am excited about PS3 coming with one as standard and manditory. At the very least, the potential is there. If it's used or not, well we'll see.

 

[ninzel]

So if the PS3 will be compatible with any 2.5 HDD, then I guess that means Sony will ship the PS3 with a version of Liinux to install on any HDD. Being able to use any HDD, and at the same time requiring games to use the HDD, means you probably with have to have their propreitary OS installed.I don't see Sony allowing WIndows to be run on the PS3.

 

[Titanio]

I don't read Kutaragi's comment as meaning you'll be able to use any HDD. Just that it shares the same technology/form as standard PC drives, thus should be familiar to anyone who's used them before. I wouldn't get my hopes up on that at all, especially when they've announced a set capacity (which yeah, will be upgradeable..but probably with other Sony drives).

I also am not sure where KLee is seeing mention of RAM upgrades..no one is reporting that AFAIK.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

You might be right (about us being wrong) on the HDD. I read the bit about anyone using a PC being able to connect it to mean any PC drive could be connected. But really, talking about how it's wired up is odd. Telling people your custom HDD that is required but isn't standard connects with a SATA cable is...not what I'd expect of a well thought out business meeting!

 

[Phil]

I don't read Kutaragi's comment as meaning you'll be able to use any HDD. Just that it shares the same technology/form as standard PC drives, thus should be familiar to anyone who's used them before. I wouldn't get my hopes up on that at all, especially when they've announced a set capacity (which yeah, will be upgradeable..but probably with other Sony drives).

I also am not sure where KLee is seeing mention of RAM upgrades..no one is reporting that AFAIK.

Bearing the fact that it's translated, I think

Anyway, this HDD is standard SATA 2.5'' drive that is used in PC, so anyone who can use PC can connect it by themselves, or, we may put it in all PS3, I think it all depends on the market. But as a platform, I'd like to repeat, it's all right that you think it has HDD.

the underlined above is a give away IMO - in the context it is used - that they [Sony] are still deciding if they'll have a HDD in every unit they sell or if they'll leave it up to the user to purchase/use/connect it themselve since it's a standard, non-propriatery SATA 2.5" drive.

On the other hand though, it could very well be that if they sell the HD as a manditory add-on that only the official Sony HD will feature the installation disk to set it up so that it'll work with your PS3. I would think though that the HD in itself won't be different from any other HD outthere and that you could in fact re-use the installation disk to setup another Harddrive if for example the original one crashes.

In anyway, regardless which one it happens, I think all that really counts is that a HD is required to the package that is PS3.

 

[valioso]

they dont take into account that a lot of people have no idea of what a hard drive even is or how it connects.. not to mention that if you buy a blank cd at best buy you have to do all the formatting and stuff... too complicated.

 

[rabidrabbit]

There are such things as instruction manuals, and installation wizards which help even the non PC "nerd" to slide in the HD and install the OS if not already on the HD.

It's not that difficult really. If they can connect the xbox360 20GB HDd into the machine surely popping the PS3 HD into the bay can't be that much more diffficult.

 

[Danalys]

yeah it could be as simple as plug in harddisk. choose format harddisk in PS3 system menu. insert PS3 linux install disc. "linux is not installed do you want to install it." select yes

 

[valioso]

There are such things as instruction manuals, and installation wizards which help even the non PC "nerd" to slide in the HD and install the OS if not already on the HD.

It's not that difficult really. If they can connect the xbox360 20GB HDd into the machine surely popping the PS3 HD into the bay can't be that much more diffficult.

I think you under stimate people's stupidity.. I used to work tech support for a dial up company.. some people really are that stupid.. specially if they can buy any brand they want at best buy..

 

[scooby_dooby]

I think your post was right on the money. Exactly my thoughts: PS3 will require a HD - the option where and how the HD is purchases is up to the consumer. It can either be bought with a PS3 (perhaps initial PS3 will come bundled with it), from Sony with linux on it or from any HD vendor that sells a compatible HD (2.5", SATA).

You honestly believe this? Let me get this straight...theyre gonna sell a $400-500 console, not support memory cards and force you to buy a $60-100 HDD on top of everything else just to play basic games? Riiiight....

Unless Sony has a serious desire to lose even MORE marketshare they will not do this idiotic move, and I can't believe how many people on this forum actually believe they would do something so ridiculous.

Basically this announcement came down to sony asking dev's to support HDD rather than telling them to. KK basically said: HDD is very important to me, please support it..pretty please? We might sell them with all launch PS3 or we might not.

If the HDD is required then tell me, what is the point of this statement:
"Rather than have developers create games for the PS3 with or without the HDD, we will be asking them to develop games as though all PS3s have the HDD installed"

That statement says explicitly they will NOT have developers code for a PS3 with a HDD.

 

[scooby_dooby]

That's pretty much the reason why I am excited about PS3 coming with one as standard and manditory. At the very least, the potential is there. If it's used or not, well we'll see.

Your excitement is not warranted. PS3 will not require a HDD and it probably won't even come with one bundled. With no 2nd SKU that means that the install base of the HDD will still be up in the air, while 360 has a 90% install base due to the 2nd SKU.

IMO, because Sony won't bundle a HDD w/ the PS3(too expensive), and they won't make the HDD mandatory (cause that's stupid with a capital 'S') and they've confirmed they won't go with a 2 SKU approach, the 360 HDD will end up getting more developer support in the end anyways.

There's always the chance Sony somehow manages to get the PS3 down to a $400 pricepoint, and then add in a HDD. BUt 6 months out from launch, if tehy're still saying 'maybe' I think we know that's not going to happen. Even if it did it's no different than MS shipping all premoiums because basic games will not require the HDD.

 

[valioso]

If the HDD is required then tell me, what is the point of this statement:
"Rather than have developers create games for the PS3 with or without the HDD, we will be asking them to develop games as though all PS3s have the HDD installed"

That statement says explicitly they will NOT have developers code for a PS3 with a HDD.

what?!

 

[scooby_dooby]

That's KK's statement:
""Rather than have developers create games for the PS3 with or without the HDD, we will be asking them to develop games as though all PS3s have the HDD installed""

If I may paraphrase:
"rather than have devs program for PS3 with HDD, we will ask them to develop like it has a HDD"

He's making an explicit distinction.

Here is the literal translation from one:
Originally Posted by Kutaragi

... and also considering it'll become the environment where HDD is main as written here, we'd like to accellerate it. Now, about the HDD, we put it in the spec before with the English expression "detachable". But if we say "detachable" it's not clear where to target software development as it seems an HDD is present in some units and not in others. Though if we put an HDD with a certain size in all units from the beginning it will have tremendous cost pressure on us, and also it will be big pressure on soft developers as they have to develop games that exploit HDD, we'd like to bring down this threshold as low as possible.

One thing we want to make it clear today is, though personally I thought I'd give you more detailed talk, for starters we regard PS3 with the premise that it has HDD, let me tell you. It's not that there is a version that has HDD or that doesn't, we'd like you to develop software with the assumption that all PS3 have HDD, this is my request. Later, we'll deliver you various information when we announce the price and the SKU, but considering what the market is demanding, we think it's important that I tell you today that, for starters, HDD is the premise. I want you to understand it. Anyway, this HDD is standard SATA 2.5'' drive that is used in PC, so anyone who can use PC can connect it by themselves, or, we may put it in all PS3, I think it all depends on the market. But as a platform, I'd like to repeat, it's all right that you think it has HDD. In an environment always connected to the network it's unthinkable that it doesn't have HDD, so I assume you can feel secure to develop software.

So basically he saying...although all PS3 might not have a HDD in them, I want you to pretend that they do.

 

[ROG27]

Regardless of what Sony decides to do with this removable HDD of theirs (bundle it...not bundle it...use a proprietary HDD....or use any standard laptop HDD), the great news is that Sony is enforcing the HDD's use, which will mean everyone will benefit regardless (unlike the last go around with the PS2...where the HDD was basically useless).

 

[Confidence-Man]

I'd go with scooby on this.

It seems to me that the way he's using the word "required" is more than a little like MS saying the 360's HDD is "standard". It won't be in every unit sold, but their vision for the platform is that it is HDD equipped, and they simply won't discuss it or present it in any other way. Kutaragi is "requesting" that developers use the HDD and to assume it's there all the time, however (as he says) he wants to avoid the cost pressure of putting one in every unit and the developer pressure to exploit it.

 

[ROG27]

Scooby let me give you my take on that quote...from Engrish to English:

... and also considering it'll become the environment where HDD is main as written here, we'd like to accellerate it. Now, about the HDD, we put it in the spec before with the English expression "detachable". But if we say "detachable" it's not clear where to target software development as it seems an HDD is present in some units and not in others. Though if we put an HDD with a certain size in all units from the beginning it will have tremendous cost pressure on us, and also it will be big pressure on soft developers as they have to develop games that exploit HDD, we'd like to bring down this threshold as low as possible.

One thing we want to make it clear today is, though personally I thought I'd give you more detailed talk, for starters we regard PS3 with the premise that it has HDD, let me tell you. It's not that there is a version that has HDD or that doesn't, we'd like you to develop software with the assumption that all PS3 have HDD, this is my request. Later, we'll deliver you various information when we announce the price and the SKU, but considering what the market is demanding, we think it's important that I tell you today that, for starters, HDD is the premise. I want you to understand it. Anyway, this HDD is standard SATA 2.5'' drive that is used in PC, so anyone who can use PC can connect it by themselves, or, we may put it in all PS3, I think it all depends on the market. But as a platform, I'd like to repeat, it's all right that you think it has HDD. In an environment always connected to the network it's unthinkable that it doesn't have HDD, so I assume you can feel secure to develop software.

In the first paragraph...he is not making any explicit decisions on whether there will or won't be a HDD included in the SKU...all he is doing is weighing the pros and cons of including the HDD and not including the HDD as standard. It is a comparison...a cost/benefit trade-off scenario...that's what he means when he says, "he wants to lower the threshhold [cost pressures associated with including a HDD as standard to both hardware and software producers] as low as possible [while still maintaining an environment where a HDD is practically standard]".

In the second paragraph, he is explicitly telling Sony's business partners that no decision has been made as whether to include the HDD in the SKU or not, but that one way or another, we're going too make sure that every user is using a HDD. Then they go on to say at a later date they will fill them in on the decision to include a HDD in the SKU or not. This decision may take into account what different markets demand and their particular needs. That last statement is the kicker: KK thinks it absolutely necessary that every user of PS3 must have a HDD to use. How the HDD will be delivered to the customer is still being decided. But the premise that the HDD will be crucial for the full use of the PS3 system and that developers should feel comfortable that it will be there for every user is the basis of that part of his presentation.

I personally believe the PS3 will come "bundled" with a HDD, a la "PSP Value Pack", or if they decide not to include it, it will be marketed like the PS2's memory card was (except necessary for even more things...not just saves of course) for around $50.00 USD. Games will be able to play with or without the HDD physically present in the machine....but I think this is Sony's way of enforcing standards for HDD use for every title developers are producing.

 

[Diamond.G]

Scooby let me give you my take on that quote...from Engrish to English:



In the first paragraph...he is not making any explicit decisions on whether there will or won't be a HDD included in the SKU...all he is doing is weighing the pros and cons of including the HDD and not including the HDD as standard. It is a comparison...a cost/benefit trade-off scenario...that's what he means when he says, "he wants to lower the threshhold [cost pressures associated with including a HDD as standard to both hardware and software producers] as low as possible [while still maintaining an environment where a HDD is practically standard]".

In the second paragraph, he is explicitly telling Sony's business partners that no decision has been made as whether to include the HDD in the SKU or not, but that one way or another, we're going too make sure that every user is using a HDD. Then they go on to say at a later date they will fill them in on the decision to include a HDD in the SKU or not. This decision may take into account what different markets demand and their particular needs. That last statement is the kicker: KK thinks it absolutely necessary that every user of PS3 must have a HDD to use. How the HDD will be delivered to the customer is still being decided. But the premise that the HDD will be crucial for the full use of the PS3 system and that developers should feel comfortable that it will be there for every user is the basis of that part of his presentation.

I personally believe the PS3 will come "bundled" with a HDD, a la "PSP Value Pack", or if they decide not to include it, it will be marketed like the PS2's memory card was (except necessary for even more things...not just saves of course) for around $50.00 USD. Games will be able to play with or without the HDD physically present in the machine....but I think this is Sony's way of enforcing standards for HDD use for every title developers are producing.

Even with your translation I don't see how the final outcome (system with HDD) is different for Sony or Microsoft. The arguments for or against a game that will not work unless you have the drive are still the same. If anything MS's message may have been more of a bone throwing to those with the core system. I would like to see the reaction of people when (and if) there are games that won't work without a harddisk (for either system).

 

[valioso]

Normally in english if they tell you to develop assuming the hard drive is there, it means the hard drive is there.. and if its not there then is not going to work. That's what I get from KK's quote.. how you guys arrive from "assume the hdd is there" to make the games work without it (when is not mentioned anywhere on any quote) is beyond me and my logic.