PS3 HDD REQUIRED to Play Games but is NOT Standard?

[scooby_dooby]

Because it's the only conclusion that makes sense.

Rather than analyzing the formatting of a powerpoint slide, I think we can reason this one out using common sense. They aren't sure if it will be standard, it can't be required if it's not standard, you split you userbase, simple as that.

Basically if it WAS required, Sony would not be unsure as to whether it is standard or not, it would be standard and they would have announced it. The fact they are 'unsure' speaks for itself, it's not standard and therefore not required.

 

[Nicked]

Thats some screwed-up logic chain (since a is not b it must be c). Alot of assuming there.

Assuming developers are being told to write an engine that would support no HDD - the opposite of what has been implied and totally not in line with the facts stated.
Assuming that by HDD required they mean only for certain things - the opposite of what the slide implies.
Assuming that lack of solid information either way indicates its not standard.

Heres how I read the slide:
HDD required!
Facts about HDD and benefits of this

Heres how you're reading it:
HDD required!
For the following features.

The lack of a 'for' and the fact its a title heading with specifications is what clinches this for me. We'll see though, I think, as soon as GDC or at the least E3 (which really has snuck up huh?).

 

[scooby_dooby]

Ya but I feel they are extremely safe assumptions.

Basically my main assumption Sony is not stupid enough to split the userbase. With that assumption, it's very hard for me to imagine a scenario where they can require a HDD, but not have it standard on every PS3. And if they were going to have it standard, why would they still be unsure? Does not compute!

I'm not really hung up on the slide, it's a PR slide for business people, it's not meant for developers so it has no reason to be precise about it's wording or layout, such things will not be left up to interpretation for developers.

 

[Npl]

Ya but I feel they are extremely safe assumptions.

Basically my main assumption Sony is not stupid enough to split the userbase. With that assumption, it's very hard for me to imagine a scenario where they can require a HDD, but not have it standard on every PS3. And if they were going to have it standard, why would they still be unsure? Does not compute!

I'm not really hung up on the slide, it's a PR slide for business people, it's not meant for developers so it has no reason to be precise about it's wording or layout, such things will not be left up to interpretation for developers.

What would they get by having HDD Standard as "in any SKU" ? Certainly my wrath as
*) I`d prefer to be able to save to memstick as I can carry these around easy.
*) I`d rather pick up a 2,5` HDD myself and install it - think about those HDD-Bays you can buy for PCs - than beeing forced upon a specific sized HDD. People not capable to plug the HDD in themselfes can pay 10€ more and have a "qualified geek" do it at the store. Sony could choose anytime to buy a load of HDDs from whoever offers a sweet deal and make Bundles, even shops could offer Bundles themself.

They way they could deal with it as *standard* is that they simply dont approve Games until they reasonable support the HDD. Eg check if they cache files and allow saving/loading to HDD.

 

[Titanio]

Ya but I feel they are extremely safe assumptions.

Basically my main assumption Sony is not stupid enough to split the userbase.

Do they split the userbase with memory cards? I hate to keep harping back to that, but it's true.

FWIW, most sites/journos seem to be interpreting it exactly as if it were a memory card - required, but not necessarily in the box.

I'm not really hung up on the slide, it's a PR slide for business people, it's not meant for developers

The event was initially meant only for publishers and developers.

Just wait for clarification..

 

[ninzel]

Forcing developers to code with the HDD in mind will mean that if one is present, there will for sure be a benefit to buying one, but I don't imagine forcing games to require them.
It just makes the carrot that the HDD will be, even more attractive.Maybe downloadable content and the proliferation of linux is more important to Sony than previoulsy thought, as important as BD-ROM.

 

[jpr27]

I really dont find it the HDD requirement all that confusing. I think it will be used in all areas already covered. They seem to have created a foundation of not just using HDD in gaming but following the lines of MS and Live. I think this is the PS3 version of things to come and realized that although they would like to go the way of say memory cards, with downloads, Linux, patches, online games and content, it seems that Sony will embrace the HDD with the PS3.

The big question now is will they base it as MS did with their Core and Premium package or an add on periphreal like the PS2 HDD. MS received alot of flak for telling developers not to count on the HDD when developing games while Sony has done the opposit. Maybe Sony is just saving themselves a little backlash and chose this wording even though in the end the PS3 may still only require memory cards for basic gaming.

The HDD is for the "Serious" gamer giving them a wider range of possabilities with online options, Downloads, Maps, Friends, Online Multiplayer and Co-Op oh and linux. (pretty much Live equivalent ) The PS3 will bring the most out of the PS3. I can already see the marketing campaign

 

[ninzel]

And what about Joe casual gamer? You know that guy that drove the PS2 to dominate this gen. Nah something sounds a little off about these announcement and quite frankly I feel like I really learned nothing today. If this all turns out true, the PS3 sounds too complicated, too ambitous and too expensive for the average gamer. Unless Sony is willing to practicvally give these things away. I think the high end benefits will be lost on the average or casual gamer, and the price will be what smacks them in the gonads.
I liked the idea of the multimedia functions, but having certain hardware as requirement concerns me mainly becasue these thngs are closed boxes and I always like my consoles simple so they are likely to be more reliable. If something goes wrong with my PC I can open it up and replace or fix something my self.
I would be hesitant even as a hardcore avid gamer to invest in a closed box this complicated and expensive right off the bat.

 

[SugarCoat]

And what about Joe casual gamer? You know that guy that drove the PS2 to dominate this gen. Nah something sounds a little off about these announcement and quite frankly I feel like I really learned nothing today. If this all turns out true, the PS3 sounds too complicated, too ambitous and too expensive for the average gamer. Unless Sony is willing to practicvally give these things away. I think the high end benefits will be lost on the average or casual gamer, and the price will be what smacks them in the gonads.
I liked the idea of the multimedia functions, but having certain hardware as requirement concerns me mainly becasue these thngs are closed boxes and I always like my consoles simple so they are likely to be more reliable. If something goes wrong with my PC I can open it up and replace or fix something my self.
I would be hesitant even as a hardcore avid gamer to invest in a closed box this complicated and expensive right off the bat.

Companies see a computer hybrid as the future. 20, 30 years from now i would be willing to bet for gamers, we still wont be seperated into consoles and computers for games, but there will be a unniversal device. I think that is Sony's goal with the playstation. And if you think of it that way, this doesnt seem ambitious at all, at least not to them. Just part of the plan to integrate relaxing or fun media into the job of one box. Microsoft, Nvidia, ATI, major memory companies, chip manufacturers are all getting a little peice just incase thats the way it swings. As far as gamers are concerned, computers may go the way of the dodo, and would it be all that bad if it got to a point where consoles retained all the functionality of the home computers we use but in a trimmer lighter package usable from the sofa or the desk? I love my PC, like to get the newest hardware and all that, but consoles are evolving extremely fast, and the amount of titles and money they make on games is astonishing, when you make that kind of money, you have an industry that will only grow more.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Do they split the userbase with memory cards? I hate to keep harping back to that, but it's true.

well that's exactly my point. the games will support MC's, hdd won't be required in the sense that everyone is thinking, that's why i'm thinking they(devs) will be required to implement basic support like game saves (unlike ps2) and everything else on that list, like 'enhanced gameplay' whatever that means...
edit: i dug up the list:
- enhanced game play
- network game/application
- full internet access
- home server
- linux

That's what it will be required for, enchanced gameplay is probably increased load times and any other extra's dev's can think of, the rest is fairly self explanatory except the home server concept.

Also I think KK's quote illustrates that dev's won't have to code as if the the HDD will be there, but something else "as though":
"Rather than have developers create games for the PS3 with or without the HDD, we will be asking them to develop games as though all PS3s have the HDD installed"
^
That right there is the difference between the HDD being required for gameplay and not.

 

[ninzel]

Companies see a computer hybrid as the future. 20, 30 years from now i would be willing to bet for gamers, we still wont be seperated into consoles and computers for games, but there will be a unniversal device. I think that is Sony's goal with the playstation. And if you think of it that way, this doesnt seem ambitious at all, at least not to them. Just part of the plan to integrate relaxing or fun media into the job of one box. Microsoft, Nvidia, ATI, major memory companies, chip manufacturers are all getting a little peice just incase thats the way it swings. As far as gamers are concerned, computers may go the way of the dodo, and would it be all that bad if it got to a point where consoles retained all the functionality of the home computers we use but in a trimmer lighter package usable from the sofa or the desk? I love my PC, like to get the newest hardware and all that, but consoles are evolving extremely fast, and the amount of titles and money they make on games is astonishing, when you make that kind of money, you have an industry that will only grow more.

I get where Sony's going and the whole convergence thing, maybe this is too much at once is all I'm saying. Blue Ray AND an HDD as standard? Maybe they could have started with Blue Ray and an optional HDD with Linux. I think Sony faces a tough challenge in changing peoples perceptions to see the PS3 as more than just a games machine, and even if they do will the PS3 have as great a functionality as a PC right now? Where will people perceive the value in this machine? Too expensive for a games machine, not as versatile as a PC maybe, with a OS that has not been able to sway people fromWindows.
I dont know I think they should take smaller steps. I suspect they will in the end make certain aspects optional. I wish Sony all the luck, I truely hope they succeed as I would love to see some real competition for MS, I just think thye need to be careful not to bet the whole farm all at once.

 

[valioso]

So sony is doing the same thing that MS did.. just being more confusing while saying it..

 

[chachi]

If its needed to play games, that it would only make sense that the systems comes with. If it isn't need, then of course you are going to probably need to do all those things they listed(Online and such).

Common sense would seem to suggest that due to the poor acceptance rate of the PS2 hard drive they are going to push developers to make use of it from the start so users will purchase it. What keeps Sony from adding it to the base package is that this would likely be expensive ($399 is now viewed as a low end price by most for the PS3) and they can't afford to just eat the costs (though it'd be nice if they did, I wouldn't complain ). It's also possible that they'd include it as standard in Japan (where they could charge more due to lack of competition) and then have it as a peripheral in the rest of the world. Or maybe just the launch units would have it standard.

The reason for not selling the PS3 as a BR player only is that Sony is going to be taking on a considerable loss for each unit sold, and hopefully make up the balance on profits from games sold. For people who would only be playing movies, they'd never recoup that loss. If BR players are really $1000 or more then this is going to be a problem for Sony, because it'll also cannibalize their BR player sales. That alone would be a reason for them to postpone the launch in Japan IMO.

 

[Kb-Smoker]

on G4's "attack of the show" they said the hdd is required for all ps3 online play.


Any other site reporting this news?

 

[Tap In]

That's not what I'm arguing Scooby.

Look at the slide...it is worded awkwardly, but it says, the HDD is required for the following bullet points on the slide. The bullet point relating to gameplay says "Enhance Gameplay" not "Enable Gameplay".

this is my interpretation and the same initial feeling I posted last night at 1am in the other thread

I think it was poorly worded to mean that it is REQUIRED for "online (network) play and enhanced gameplay (persistent worlds, downloaded game levels, faster load times etc).

I'm sticking with this and am about 75% sure that this theory will be proven correct in time.

 

[booomups]

is it possible that they got an extra good deal on the 2.5" versus a 3.5" drive?

i mean, they do use less material, the only cost advantage of the 3.5" drives was the production numbers, advantage of scale(that the right expression?), but now that the notebook market skyrocket, took away big parts of the desktop numbers etc etc...


else and external drive with s-ata connection would be so variable, say 10 dollar for the external case, 30 cents for the cables and then they could put in any drive they d like.

maybe sony could even start dominating the external harddisk market ;-)

 

[one]

I posted what Kutaragi actually said about the HDD in the other thread based on the streaming movie of the meeting so please take a look if you are interested in.
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=719929&postcount=406

 

[ROG27]

Every person in this thread is assuming that Sony will require their own proprietary harddrive for PS3...but from KK's speech, I gather any standard 2.5" laptop drive will work in that slot...kind of like any generic magicgate memory stick will work in the PSP...DO IT SONY! NON-PROPRIETARY HDD FOR THE WIN!!!

PS...as an incentive to move their own HDD peripheral, they will preload it with bundled games/apps/utilities/Linux.

 

[ROG27]

Awsome KLEE over at AVS had this to say:

Some more info:


HDD is a standard PC laptop 2.5" SATA design, PS3 is compatible with standard drives

No price has been announced (think E3)

All regions will get PS3s before Thanksgiving

Ken K. went out of his way to say he feels PS3 will be the best Blu-ray player, quality-wise when it is launched

Only one SKU available

Games will require HDD

Developers told to assume HDD is there

RAM upgrade is said to be in, though I don't know if that means more ram (1 gig) or faster ram (all Rambus XRDRAM) or perhaps both..


More coming soon, stay tuned

 

[SugarCoat]

Every person in this thread is assuming that Sony will require their own proprietary harddrive for PS3...but from KK's speech, I gather any standard 2.5" laptop drive will work in that slot...kind of like any generic magicgate memory stick will work in the PSP...DO IT SONY! NON-PROPRIETARY HDD FOR THE WIN!!!

PS...as an incentive to move their own HDD peripheral, they will preload it with bundled games/apps/utilities/Linux.

No, i really dont think thats the issue. The issue is that joe/jane idiot who thinks hes buying his playstation to play games will find that is not the case, and that he needs to get another peice of hardware. Whether the package is stamped with Sony or Seagate, i really dont see what that matters. Its just a very stupid move to sell something that is recognized primarily as a gaming platform, that wont work properly as a gaming platform until the consumer goes out and purchases a seperate peice of hardware. You dont require something and then not include it in any way shape or form, what the hell kind of shoddy business tactic is that? Can you imagine how pissed people would be if the Xbox 360 was non-existant with its HDD in any package, say the current core was the only available version, and the only way you could enjoy what is enabled via the HDD was to go out and purchase it seperate....to enable KEY functions the console is DESIGNED FOR? People would be not pleased at all. Infact i think most would be saying "wtf".