PS3 cost discussion *spin-off

[eastmen]

One minute of googling ->

LiteOn iHOS104-06 Blu-Ray Drive (ZipZoomFly)
$50 w/ Free Shipping

Don´t know if it´s loaded but it´s 4x read speed.

So yeah iSupplies BD drive price should be way off, thanks corduroygt for enlightning us.

Its tray loaded.

ps3 is slot loaded. There are no slot loaded drives for sale. So its hard to compare. Its obviously a custom model that is being produced just for the ps3. Even if you look at the internals of the slim its a custom drive with custom dimensions

http://undermyskintat2.com/PS3/17.jpg
http://undermyskintat2.com/PS3/18.jpg

I don't think you can point at an oem drive that is diffrent than whats in the ps3 and claim its to expensive. If no one is making slot loading drives for pcs and if it needs a diffrent form factor then its obviously going to comand some price premium over oem drives that a retailer can just dump on the market if shipments are low.

Also the speed of the drive doesn't matter. 2x drives wont cost any less and after a point he drive will simply be replaced with the faster drivers.

 

[Crossbar]

Its tray loaded.

ps3 is slot loaded. There are no slot loaded drives for sale. So its hard to compare. Its obviously a custom model that is being produced just for the ps3. Even if you look at the internals of the slim its a custom drive with custom dimensions

http://undermyskintat2.com/PS3/17.jpg
http://undermyskintat2.com/PS3/18.jpg

I don't think you can point at an oem drive that is diffrent than whats in the ps3 and claim its to expensive. If no one is making slot loading drives for pcs and if it needs a diffrent form factor then its obviously going to comand some price premium over oem drives that a retailer can just dump on the market if shipments are low.

Also the speed of the drive doesn't matter. 2x drives wont cost any less and after a point he drive will simply be replaced with the faster drivers.

What makes you think slot drive mechanics is that expensive? I mean my car radio has it. Hell even the Wii has it, which I consider to be the pinnacle of cost reduced console hardware at the moment.

The motor, the diode and control electronics are what makes it different from a DVD drive, and those are the same for the tray based BD drive and those parts are obviously coming down in price. The manufactoring costs should be pretty much the same when Sony put orders that count in millions.

 

[obonicus]

ps3 is slot loaded. There are no slot loaded drives for sale. So its hard to compare.

That doesn't make iSuppli's guess of $60 any more correct. You have a drive that can be bought for pretty much a flat $50 dollars, to consumer. Presumably this means a profit to everyone involved in the sale, from zipzoomfly to liteon to the components manufacturers. Sony's custom-case, slot-loading drive is made so much more expensive that it costs them $66?

 

[dobwal]

What makes you think slot drive mechanics is that expensive? I mean my car radio has it. Hell even the Wii has it, which I consider to be the pinnacle of cost reduced console hardware at the moment.

The motor, the diode and control electronics are what makes it different from a DVD drive, and those are the same for the tray based BD drive and those parts are obviously coming down in price. The manufactoring costs should be pretty much the same when Sony put orders that count in millions.

I wonder if slot loading is more about appeal then actual cost because I found a BD/HDDVD/DVD LG combo drive/burner go as low as $60 but the cheapest slot loading BluRay drive I found was $149 with the majority above $200.

I can't imagine that Sony would have to pay a big penalty to offer slot loading.

 

[eastmen]

That doesn't make iSuppli's guess of $60 any more correct. You have a drive that can be bought for pretty much a flat $50 dollars, to consumer. Presumably this means a profit to everyone involved in the sale, from zipzoomfly to liteon to the components manufacturers. Sony's custom-case, slot-loading drive is made so much more expensive that it costs them $66?

I'm still waiting for a slot loaded bluray drive to be sold for $50 bucks . No one has been able to link to any.

Slot loaded players allways command a price premium

Also we have no idea about the drives for $50 bucks. They may be sold at a loss by the oem because they are no longer popular compared to faster drives that are not much more expensive.

at newegg the 4x drives are going for 60-70 , the 8x drives for $110-120 and you can evne get 8x burners for $150. Its obvious that a 4x drive can not command the premium price of an 8x drive in the pc market.

However look at the ps3 market It uses a custom slot loading drive vs tray loading drive with what seems to be custom dimensions. There are no other drives from competitors to make the price drop faster . Also you can bet that the warrnety sony requires from the oem supplying these is much more than the 30-90 days an oem product ships with.

These are all costs that no one wants to factor in becausae it brings the isupply numbers much closer to reality .

I wonder if slot loading is more about appeal then actual cost because I found a BD/HDDVD/DVD LG combo drive/burner go as low as $60 but the cheapest slot loading BluRay drive I found was $149 with the majority above $200.

I can't imagine that Sony would have to pay a big penalty to offer slot loading.

if there are few people making it then it will cost more . slot loading has allways commanded higher price points than tray loading. Why ? No idea but it allways has. Also that lg bd , hd , dvd is very old now. I believe its a 6x /2x for write / rw . Now you can get 8x /2x for $150 and I'm sure the hd dvd burning feature doesn't command any price premium . On a bluray disc that extra 2x speed makes a huge diffrence.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I'm still waiting for a slot loaded bluray drive to be sold for $50 bucks . No one has been able to link to any.

Slot loaded players allways command a price premium

In manufacture or at retail? Because regardless of any retail premium for desirability, the cost for Sony is going to be cost of manufacture, which presumably is a few bucks more for slot loading - not the difference between $30 cost for a tray-loading BRD and a $60 BOm cost for PS3's BRD.

 

[joker454]

That doesn't make iSuppli's guess of $60 any more correct. You have a drive that can be bought for pretty much a flat $50 dollars, to consumer. Presumably this means a profit to everyone involved in the sale, from zipzoomfly to liteon to the components manufacturers. Sony's custom-case, slot-loading drive is made so much more expensive that it costs them $66?

Wouldn't the drive in the PS3 be of much higher duty cycle than the ones sold to consumers? Otherwise you'd figure it would break in a year or two with the heavy use it would get seeking all the time on console.

 

[corduroygt]

The existence of sub $40 car cd players shows that a slot loading mechanism in an optical drive isn't a mythical high cost technology feature.

 

[eastmen]

The existence of sub $40 car cd players shows that a slot loading mechanism in an optical drive isn't a mythical high cost technology feature.

except cd players are now 30 years old and there have been many slot cd players made in the last 30 years.

I don't know of any slot bluray players except the ps3. Even dvd slot loaders command a premium and are so rare.

we also don't know if that $50 or $60 drive people are pointing at or EOL drives that are being dumped at cheap prices to clear stock. The hd dvd /bluray recorder posted earlier is now 2 years old and I'm sure after having inventory of it for so long many retailers are just dumping stock on it.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I don't know of any slot bluray players except the ps3. Even dvd slot loaders command a premium and are so rare.

You seem to have missed my post above. (?)

 

[corduroygt]

Dear eastmen could you please explain how the slot loading mechanism of a cd drive is different than the slot loading mechanism of of a slot loading bd or DVD drive? They all are designed to load the same size disc with the same physical parameters. Also please show us proof that the $50 bluray drive is being sold at a loss. One thing you are wrong about is that 2x drives are indeed cheaper to make than 4x drives due to the laser optics and lenses that don't have to be as high quality. Also do you really think these desktop blu-Ray drives sell 10 million per year per sku like the ps3, bearing in mind that there are tens of different manufacturers competing in the same market.

 

[eastmen]

You seem to have missed my post above. (?)

Not sure which your directing me towards

In manufacture or at retail? Because regardless of any retail premium for desirability, the cost for Sony is going to be cost of manufacture, which presumably is a few bucks more for slot loading - not the difference between $30 cost for a tray-loading BRD and a $60 BOm cost for PS3's BRD.

There are more than just slot loading . I showed you picturse of the ps3 slim drive. Its dimensions are diffrent than a standard drive. Not only that but then as i've said and you glossed over. OEM drives have a 30-90 day warrenty. What warrenty does sony demand with the drives in the ps3 ? A drive that would get many times the work out that a bluray drive in a pc would get ?

Considering the diffrences in dimensions and other things those making the ps3 drive can not simply put up the drive for retail sales to recoup sales either.

Dear eastmen could you please explain how the slot loading mechanism of a cd drive is different than the slot loading mechanism of of a slot loading bd or DVD drive? They all are designed to load the same size disc with the same physical parameters. Also please show us proof that the $50 bluray drive is being sold at a loss. One thing you are wrong about is that 2x drives are indeed cheaper to make than 4x drives due to the laser optics and lenses that don't have to be as high quality. Also do you really think these desktop blu-Ray drives sell 10 million per year per sku like the ps3, bearing in mind that there are tens of different manufacturers competing in the same market.

That doesn't matter. Your focusing on the wrong part. The question is how much more money would a non standard drive cost sony than a standard drive. You build a slot loaded cd palyer for a car adn it can be used in dozens of cars. A slot loaded ps3 slim drive can only be used in the ps3 slim.

Also considering the slim is a new model they have yet to sell 10m of them. In fact at launch the new drive in the slim could cary a higher premium than the old drive in the fat ps3. Esp considering the diffrent dimensions

As for the oem drive. I can't show you proof , you can't show me proof either. I'd love to see you call up that oem or newegg and ask if they are being sold for profit at both ends or if its just old stock they are reducing prices on to clear inventory.

But I can tell you one thing. The drive in the ps3 is going to go through alot more abuse than the oem drive and because of that will be more expensive to create.


The ps3 drive is

1)slot loaded
2) diffrent dimensions
3) Needs to stand up to much more abuse


I can certianly see it costing more than an EOL drive.

 

[obonicus]

Wouldn't the drive in the PS3 be of much higher duty cycle than the ones sold to consumers? Otherwise you'd figure it would break in a year or two with the heavy use it would get seeking all the time on console.

Quite possibly. Where does iSuppli get what Sony pays for such a component?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Not sure which your directing me towards

Yes, that one. You say slot-loading drives incur a premium, but haven't explained what that premium is. Thus, if it's a retail premium, it won't be a factor in PS3's BRD drive.

Not only that but then as i've said and you glossed over. OEM drives have a 30-90 day warrenty. What warrenty does sony demand with the drives in the ps3 ? A drive that would get many times the work out that a bluray drive in a pc would get ?

I didn't gloss over it at all. I was only responding to your argument that slot-loaders cost a premium. The durability aspect may well require a more robust mechanism and greater expense by Sony. That's a different thing to slot-drives ordinarily costing a premium though.

 

[Crossbar]

The question is how much more money would a non standard drive cost sony than a standard drive.

Short answer: about the same amount as the slot drive mechanics of the Wii compared to its PC ounter part. If there are less parts and smaller parts in the PS3 drive than a standard PC drive it may even be cheaper to manufacture.

I think you are focusing on the wrong part, the high cost of a BD drive is not localized to the disks input/output mechanics.

 

[specwarGP2]

Also considering the slim is a new model they have yet to sell 10m of them. In fact at launch the new drive in the slim could cary a higher premium than the old drive in the fat ps3. Esp considering the diffrent dimensions

There's no way the new drive costs more than the old one. Do you own a slim? I doubt it. If you did you'd see the differences and understand why.

 

[patsu]

I wonder if slot loading is more about appeal then actual cost because I found a BD/HDDVD/DVD LG combo drive/burner go as low as $60 but the cheapest slot loading BluRay drive I found was $149 with the majority above $200.

I can't imagine that Sony would have to pay a big penalty to offer slot loading.

The penalty is not for slot load alone. The Panasonic slot-load 2x BD drive (UJ-225) retails for $159 here:
http://www.centrix-intl.com/details.asp?productid=9457
but it is also a burner.

The few I found are all writeable/recordable BD drives. A 2x BD-ROM drive should be much cheaper at large volume OEM price. Unfortunately, I also can't find a good source online.

 

[eastmen]

Yes, that one. You say slot-loading drives incur a premium, but haven't explained what that premium is. Thus, if it's a retail premium, it won't be a factor in PS3's BRD drive.

I didn't gloss over it at all. I was only responding to your argument that slot-loaders cost a premium. The durability aspect may well require a more robust mechanism and greater expense by Sony. That's a different thing to slot-drives ordinarily costing a premium though.

Fewer companys producing slot loading drives = less bidding contracters = higher end prices.

I'm not saying its any 1 thing. I think its a combination of things that increases the price and that picking a drive off the internet and saying hey look here is a drive and it only costs x amount and so isupply must be wrong is folly. I can find a 12x or 16x dvd drive for $10 bucks on a site that is being cleared out. Doesn't mean ms is paying $10 or less for the drive in the 360.

 

[patsu]

Fewer companys producing slot loading drives = less bidding contracters = higher end prices.

I'm not saying its any 1 thing. I think its a combination of things that increases the price and that picking a drive off the internet and saying hey look here is a drive and it only costs x amount and so isupply must be wrong is folly. I can find a 12x or 16x dvd drive for $10 bucks on a site that is being cleared out. Doesn't mean ms is paying $10 or less for the drive in the 360.

It would be a good ballpark for the upperbound though (as long as the specs are similar), but you have to find a few different sources. The large volume, OEM price cannot be more than the retail price.

 

[specwarGP2]

Fewer companys producing slot loading drives = less bidding contracters = higher end prices.

I'm not saying its any 1 thing. I think its a combination of things that increases the price and that picking a drive off the internet and saying hey look here is a drive and it only costs x amount and so isupply must be wrong is folly. I can find a 12x or 16x dvd drive for $10 bucks on a site that is being cleared out. Doesn't mean ms is paying $10 or less for the drive in the 360.

First of all, no one is using closeout pricing. Second, of course you can pick any drive off the internet and compare. Drives are commodities and the vast majority of parts used in different drives are identical.

I bet I could take apart a CD drive from 10 years ago and it will have an almost identical tray loading mechanism as a 16x DVD burner you can buy today. I'm sure a slot loading BD drive has a very similar if not identical mechanism to all the other slot loaders out there.