PS3 2005 launch?

[London Geezer]

"ps3 first comes in quarter 2 of 06 in japan and then quarter 4 in the usa / england "

51st state?

eu comes always months after usa..
xbox released months after,
ps2 released months after
ps1 released months after


PSP will be released god knows a year after

boehoe i wanna cry

Actually if i remember correctly PS2 launched in March in Japan, October in the US and November in Europe. But i could be wrong.

 

[cthellis42]

Actually if i remember correctly PS2 launched in March in Japan, October in the US and November in Europe. But i could be wrong.

Correct. But here are the exact dates, for those who want extreme clarity.

Japan - March 3rd
NA - October 26th
Europe - November 24th

It also took until the end of 2001 to start hitting the rest of asia.

 

[Shinjisan]

I think that it's pretty sure PS3 is coming around March 2006 in Japan.
Release in USA and Europe will also depend on Xenon retail performance.
While it's true that with the PS2 they released the console 7-8 months after the Japanese launch,this time market conditions are different so it's really improbable Sony will give a year advantage to Microsoft in USA.
They will try to have a NA launch in mid 2006 and a european launch in early fall IMO.

 

[EndR]

Why do people automatically asume that when PS3 is released, it will be head and shoulders above anything else on the market grahics-wise?

I have always said that I believe that the differences between Xenon and PS3 will be smaller than the differences between Xbox and PS2.
It´s also about how much support devs have with documentation, tools etc.. and what I have heard is that MS is pretty good at delivering excellent tools, documentation etc for devs

If there will be differences between Xenon and PS3 graphics-wise, it will be apparent in the 3-4 generation of games, at earliest. By then, it will not matter because both machines will have accumulated rather huge installed bases and the machines will sell no matter what... (i imagine some interesting price wars between MS and Sony)

So..
don´t expect PS3 to kill the competition graphics wise when it is released.. that will not happen.. a 1 TFlop PS3 is more probable than the PS3 instantly killing the competitions with its "teh aw3som3 gr4fix"..

 

[Shinjisan]

Why do people automatically asume that when PS3 is released, it will be head and shoulders above anything else on the market grahics-wise?

I have always said that I believe that the differences between Xenon and PS3 will be smaller than the differences between Xbox and PS2.
It´s also about how much support devs have with documentation, tools etc.. and what I have heard is that MS is pretty good at delivering excellent tools, documentation etc for devs

If there will be differences between Xenon and PS3 graphics-wise, it will be apparent in the 3-4 generation of games, at earliest. By then, it will not matter because both machines will have accumulated rather huge installed bases and the machines will sell no matter what... (i imagine some interesting price wars between MS and Sony)

So..
don´t expect PS3 to kill the competition graphics wise when it is released.. that will not happen.. a 1 TFlop PS3 is more probable than the PS3 instantly killing the competitions with its "teh aw3som3 gr4fix"..

We really can't predict that at the moment.
It depends on many factors,when the platforms are launched,if and how much each company wants to lose initially on the hardware etc.
The fact that Sony has a scalable technology puts virtually everything in their hands (a 2 Cell setup would kill Xenon).
If the PS3 ends to be more powerful,I expect the differences to become relevant when first AAA titles from company like Konami,Polyphony,Square,Capcom come out.
The first titles that showed PS2 capabilities all came out in 2001 with GT3,FFX,DMC,MGS2 which are not 3rd-4th generation games but late first- early second generation titles.
Even Tekken Tag did a really good graphical showcase and it was a launch title.

 

[Pozer]

Why do people automatically asume that when PS3 is released, it will be head and shoulders above anything else on the market grahics-wise?

I agree to certain extent, at this point its kinda like saying the Bigfoot is stronger than the Wolfman. "like I read this spec script this guy wrote last year and Bigfoot totally owned with his 96 ALUs, im sure it was legit cause some other guy posted in this forum about Wolfman and he suxors "

I have always said that I believe that the differences between Xenon and PS3 will be smaller than the differences between Xbox and PS2.

Good point. On mutli-console releases you have to be GFX nerd many times to see the differences. When a game is tailor made for a single console often times the results are amazing regardless of the platform. Certain stuff the ps2 can hold its own against the xbox and certain games it can't. (fps come to mind) I would venture to guess alot of time is spent by developers optimizing ps2 code double checking every last BIT due to ram limitations, Xbox devs can sometimes be a little lazier to achieve the same effect. GT4 probably could have been made on the xbox with less optimization time. Then again ps2 is a poly pumping monster.
Bottom line, I have seen very little on the xbox that couldn't have been done on the ps2 and look identical to the average person's eyes. except maybe some of the AAA games like Halo2, Ninja Gaiden, Riddick. PS2 can do the Bump-normal mapping and cool lighting but it cant do them with high poly eviroments too.

It´s also about how much support devs have with documentation, tools etc.. and what I have heard is that MS is pretty good at delivering excellent tools, documentation etc for devs

MS has the most experience in the dept. and will probably have the best SDK and support next gen, but from what I hear Nintendo and Sony have improved amazingly since 2001. Devs will always adapt to the system with biggest install base.

If there will be differences between Xenon and PS3 graphics-wise, it will be apparent in the 3-4 generation of games, at earliest. By then, it will not matter because both machines will have accumulated rather huge installed bases and the machines will sell no matter what... (i imagine some interesting price wars between MS and Sony)

If Sony/nvidia GPU has features Xenon GPU doesnt sony would be wise to utilize them at launch. But then again what features would those be? Can anyone hear seriously tell me the average person can discern the difference between a game running shader model 2.0 versus shader model 3.0 on a PC game !!!!!!???!!! Now, keep in mind 70% of people will initally be playing these consoles on 1998 27" GE standard television with composite hookups. I think enviroment size, free roaming ablility, AI, interactivity will be bigger draws initially.

But then again Im always wrong, we'll see. [/b]

 

[cthellis42]

Dude, who's bought GE televisions in the past decade?

 

[zidane1strife]

Why do people automatically asume that when PS3 is released, it will be head and shoulders above anything else on the market grahics-wise?

Well, I dunno about others, but I'm hoping they can pull 45nm(yeah, this unlikely be, but it'd sure cause an unimaginable ruckus.).

 

[London Geezer]

Why do people automatically asume that when PS3 is released, it will be head and shoulders above anything else on the market grahics-wise?

Well, I dunno about others, but I'm hoping they can pull 45nm(yeah, this unlikely be, but it'd sure cause an unimaginable ruckus.).

Well the latest ideas are that it's going to be a 90nm part, to then be shifted to 65nm later on, so i'm not sure 45nm is even in the question at this moment in time.
Besides, when did size of transistors become inversely proportional to graphics power?

 

[passerby]

ii'm not sure 45nm is even in the question at this moment in time.

Crystal ball sees a slimline PS3 on 45nm in end-2010.

 

[London Geezer]

ii'm not sure 45nm is even in the question at this moment in time.

Crystal ball sees a slimline PS3 on 45nm in end-2010.

I'll be dead by then. Or so rich i won't even care.

 

[EndR]

We really can't predict that at the moment.
It depends on many factors,when the platforms are launched,if and how much each company wants to lose initially on the hardware etc.
The fact that Sony has a scalable technology puts virtually everything in their hands (a 2 Cell setup would kill Xenon).
If the PS3 ends to be more powerful,I expect the differences to become relevant when first AAA titles from company like Konami,Polyphony,Square,Capcom come out.
The first titles that showed PS2 capabilities all came out in 2001 with GT3,FFX,DMC,MGS2 which are not 3rd-4th generation games but late first- early second generation titles.
Even Tekken Tag did a really good graphical showcase and it was a launch title.

The thing is, Sony REALLY dosen´t need to go overkill with the specs, the machine will still sell no matter what. By having "best specs" they will make it more difficult for themselves by increasing the initial loss on each machine. By having the most popular brand, the machine will sell and will therefore bring in some red numbers for Sony at start. So from a business standpoint, Sony gains very little by having the "the ultimate specs" (which would mean a 2 PE configuration)

As I see it, Sony isn´t in the best position of taking losses, they will have two machines out there which will be sold with a loss, PS3 and PSP and well, Sonys financials haven´t been "the best" lately (even though they have made profits). So therefore, I don´t see Sony packing in a 2 PE config, with the Nvidia-gpu, with the BR-tech, the XDR-ram etc. That would be a costly piece of equip... and SOny really don´t gain "explosive more sales" by having it either...

Regarding which gen of games will start to show of the capabilites of the machine, the thing now is that everything will be more programmable, with lots of vertex and pixel operations, devs will be able to come up with stuff that will look "the same" on every console.. Art design will be the huge differentiator actually...

 

[Shinjisan]

We really can't predict that at the moment.
It depends on many factors,when the platforms are launched,if and how much each company wants to lose initially on the hardware etc.
The fact that Sony has a scalable technology puts virtually everything in their hands (a 2 Cell setup would kill Xenon).
If the PS3 ends to be more powerful,I expect the differences to become relevant when first AAA titles from company like Konami,Polyphony,Square,Capcom come out.
The first titles that showed PS2 capabilities all came out in 2001 with GT3,FFX,DMC,MGS2 which are not 3rd-4th generation games but late first- early second generation titles.
Even Tekken Tag did a really good graphical showcase and it was a launch title.

The thing is, Sony REALLY dosen´t need to go overkill with the specs, the machine will still sell no matter what. By having "best specs" they will make it more difficult for themselves by increasing the initial loss on each machine. By having the most popular brand, the machine will sell and will therefore bring in some red numbers for Sony at start. So from a business standpoint, Sony gains very little by having the "the ultimate specs" (which would mean a 2 PE configuration)

As I see it, Sony isn´t in the best position of taking losses, they will have two machines out there which will be sold with a loss, PS3 and PSP and well, Sonys financials haven´t been "the best" lately (even though they have made profits). So therefore, I don´t see Sony packing in a 2 PE config, with the Nvidia-gpu, with the BR-tech, the XDR-ram etc. That would be a costly piece of equip... and SOny really don´t gain "explosive more sales" by having it either...

Regarding which gen of games will start to show of the capabilites of the machine, the thing now is that everything will be more programmable, with lots of vertex and pixel operations, devs will be able to come up with stuff that will look "the same" on every console.. Art design will be the huge differentiator actually...

This can be a logical opinion and I repect it but you should consider how much Sony used the hardware hype in fighting and killing Dreamcast even before it was released.
Also hardware reputation is the main factor behind Xbox 'success'.
The fact that PS2 hardware has been continually slammed as the inferior platform in every magazine,website with nearly all multiplatforms games has certainly hurt Sony.Sure,PS2 has won because it has the best lineup,third party exclusive support and brand but in my opinion their image was damaged by hardware inferiority and this didn't pass unchecked in Sony which as a japanese electronics company was also touched in its pride.
So why for the PS3 shouldn't they try to combine what they have today,brand and support, with the most powerful hardware?
That would conquer all those hardcore graphics fans that have switched to other platforms this generation while making happy their traditional userbase.
Also that would hurt a lot Microsoft that until now has relied a lot upon its hardware strength.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I can't imagine there being any visible difference between platforms, except maybe smoother models when lots on screen. The difference between a potential super-power PS3 and high-power Xenon will be most apparent in size of games, in physics action, size of armies, etc. Unless there's the option of some degree of realtime GI type lighting, visually the nextgen will be very comparable IMO and it won't be amazing graphics that win over customers, except maybe at Xenon's launch where gaming geeks pay for the latest, greatest visuals in a console, kinda like early adopters of PS2.

 

[zidane1strife]

ii'm not sure 45nm is even in the question at this moment in time.

Crystal ball sees a slimline PS3 on 45nm in end-2010.

Well weren't sony/toshiba proyecting 45nm capability for 2k5?

I mean the ps3 launch date is assumed by most to be mid2k6-fall2k6, if they do achieve their proyected goals(or even more unlikely get ahead of schedule).

edited

 

[jvd]

Seems like sony is getting its process tech from ibm (same with toshiba )

Seems like ibm wont have 65nm for awhile . 45nm is really out of the question .

Looks like strong possibilty of 90nm and mabye 65nms if it launches later

 

[zidane1strife]

Seems like sony is getting its process tech from ibm (same with toshiba )

Seems like ibm wont have 65nm for awhile . 45nm is really out of the question .

Looks like strong possibilty of 90nm and mabye 65nms if it launches later

Ain't their new fabs designed for 65-45nm(or so it was said here, and in press releases, no? I though I even heard they did something with regards to their 65nm process last year?)?

My guess is this(no more 65/45nm PR, 90nm cell unveiling, 90nm talk, etc) could all be a stratagem of sony's(Though most likely it ain't). I'd still like for a 2k5 US launch(xbox 2 ports mostly, though that is probably less likely than 65nm/45nm process), if they managed to launch simultaneously with MS, and with better specs, even if close, it'd be a devastating move IMHO(And it'd have to be kept EXTREMELY secret to be most effective).

editedii

 

[London Geezer]

ii'm not sure 45nm is even in the question at this moment in time.

Crystal ball sees a slimline PS3 on 45nm in end-2010.

Well weren't sony/toshiba proyecting 45nm capability for 2k5?

I mean the ps3 launch date is assumed by most to be mid2k6-fall2k6, if they do achieve their proyected goals(or even more unlikely get ahead of schedule).

edited

They might have been, but so far i think even 65nm is as far as it gets this year.

 

[jvd]

It may have been thier intentions to have 65nm ready but it doesn't look to be the case.

I was allways highly suspicious of them being a year ahead of intel and even ibm themselves .

 

[zidane1strife]

It may have been thier intentions to have 65nm ready but it doesn't look to be the case.

I was allways highly suspicious of them being a year ahead of intel and even ibm themselves .

If they're launching in 2k6 I still think we'll at least see 65nm...

Toshiba plans to start volume production of high performance 65nm devices this month or next, followed by the low-power version next year.

Masukazu Kakuma, SoC technologist, Toshiba Semiconductor
Solid State Technology February, 2005

http://sst.pennnet.com/Articles/Art...p;ARTICLE_ID=221368&VERSION_NUM=2&p=5