Possibilities of game data saving on PS3

[Powderkeg]

Also, why would you ever have 50 MB game saves? Please think before you post.

Maybe because you don't want to drag your game down with checkpoints or you want to have a persistent world in your game. Because you don't want to make an arcade game.

Some PC games have had 50+ MB saves for years.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Making memory a commodity for the users removes one hurdle to getting them to download stuff from the net, for example - which is an area where Sony certainly can make money.

Anyway, what your suggesting is that while Sony will use memory sticks for game saves, you'll only be able to use Sony's own memory sticks, and not other brands.

Now this is logic I consider valid. By providing large amounts of cheap storage they could enable easy downloads off the net without worrrying about HDD installed base. It's a valid argument.

Anways, what I'm suggesting is they will do what they have always done, make a proprietary security 'toggle' so that only PS3 memory cards will work for game saves, to the tune of $40 a pop.

Then they'll sell you a HDD if you want more storage, to the tune of $100-200.

Or they could let you use anything you have laying around your house...to the tune of $0. But I don't see that happening.

 

[Bad_Boy]

Anways, what I'm suggesting is they will do what they have always done, make a proprietary security 'toggle' so that only PS3 memory cards will work for game saves, to the tune of $40 a pop.

don't know how they would do that when none of the formats on the ps3 are proprietary. (out of ms, duo, compact flash, and SD)...either sony makes them and another company makes them, or just another company makes them. they could try to make them "sony" only just by making it magicgate memory sticks only, but even sandisk makes those now.

or are you talking about adding in an official PS3 Memory Card? highly unlikely

40 dollars for a memory stick in 2006 could easily get you a 512mb duo (maybe even a 1GB), i doubt anyone would need that much for game saves. hell, you can find a 32mb stick for less than 20 bucks today. the format is getting cheaper every day. you act like sony makes billions off them or somthing.

 

[PeterT]

scooby_dooby, your posts in this thread are quite misleading. I always operated from the assumption that only "Magic Gate" capable MS Pro Duo sticks could be used for game saves. However, I don't see any way for Sony to prevent other manufacturers' devices of that exact type from being used to save games. Short of introducing a new MS/Memorycard standard, which I seriously doubt. So, my price comparison still stands.

Even if Sony did find some way to vendor lock game saving to just their MS Pro Duos, they are still cheap at € 30 per 256 MB.

In summary:

You just can't use it for gamesaves, just like you won't be able to use anything excepy Sony's proprietary cards for gamesaves.

They are the same.

No and no.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

don't know how they would do that when none of the formats on the ps3 are proprietary. (out of ms, duo, compact flash, and SD)...either sony makes them and another company makes them, or just another company makes them. they could try to make them "sony" only just by making it magicgate memory sticks only, but even sandisk makes those now.

AFAIK Sony gets alicensing fee of Memsticks sold, in the same way Phillips makes money for every CD produced. There's a few Memstick manufacturers developing now, even a cheapo unbranded Chinese fab is making them. Magic Gate is supported on Sony, SanDisk and Lexar memorysticks at least.

As PS3 is aimed at being a multimedia device, support of writing to other formats makes sense. eg. You download a movie or album and have it on a flash device for use in your flash player. As a content portal PS3 really needs to be able to output to all devices. Inventing a proprietary format to charge extra for less performance and take up more space on the console alongside the other card slots doesn't make much sense and will annoy users. 'How come I can use my 512mb CF card for videos, music and pictures, but not save games? Why have I got to pay as much for only 64 mbs of save game space?'

Back when PS2 was being developed there weren't any strong standards for Flash storage IIRC, so a proprietary format made sense to add a large markup to a device that hadn't much competition. With PS3, the inclusion of multiple card readers needed for multimedia portability would make the enforcement of the need for a certain of storage for game saves only a PR harming complication. Still MagicGate is needed for PSP saves by accounts so there may still be a comlication in needed MG for saves on PS3, which is kinda lame.

It'd be nice to find KK's comments. It was an interview, I think translated by one, on this site. I went looking and found a lengthy Goto article but it didn't mention the card types.

 

[Bad_Boy]

Yeah I agree with you Shifty Geezer, you put up a few good points. I think it will be interesting how this whole thing unfolds for the ps3.

 

[one]

Still MagicGate is needed for PSP saves by accounts so there may still be a comlication in needed MG for saves on PS3, which is kinda lame.

Fact check: Currently MagicGate is not required for PSP game save.

Also FYI, Chatani, who is the CTO of SCEI, expressed he hoped to support non-memstick media for game save. I think it's not strange as they imply PS3 is a computer (though not necessarily called 'PC') rather than a game console.

 

[Titanio]

Fact check: Currently MagicGate is not required for PSP game save.

Also FYI, Chatani, who is the CTO of SCEI, expressed he hoped to support non-memstick media for game save. I think it's not strange as they imply PS3 is a computer (though not necessarily called 'PC') rather than a game console.

Thanks, that particular interview is enlightening in this regard.

If they're considering non-mem stick formats for game saves etc. it should be pretty clear that mem sticks (any brand) at least will be useable for that.

 

[Mefisutoferesu]

Fact check: Currently MagicGate is not required for PSP game save.

Also FYI, Chatani, who is the CTO of SCEI, expressed he hoped to support non-memstick media for game save. I think it's not strange as they imply PS3 is a computer (though not necessarily called 'PC') rather than a game console.

AHA!!! That was the interview I was thinking of!!! A wealth of information as always, one.

 

[PeterT]

Maybe because you don't want to drag your game down with checkpoints or you want to have a persistent world in your game. Because you don't want to make an arcade game.

Some PC games have had 50+ MB saves for years.

I expected such a reply, that's why I implored you to think. You don't need 50+ MB saves to have a persistent world or eliminate checkpoints. If you assume a 32 bit ID, 32 bit location ID, 96 location vector and an additional 160 bits of misc. status information, that's 320 bit or 40 bytes per object. Even if the player interacts with 100000 such objects, that's just about 3.8 MiB. Add a generous amount of player and npc status information and we're still talking about around 5 MiB.

Which "years" old PC game has 50MB saves? For that matter, I can't even think of any recent one. Also, just because you can make huge save games doesn't mean that it's necessary for any particular gaming experience. I can make a 2D breakout clone that slows PS3 to 2 fps, does that mean PS3 sucks?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Fact check: Currently MagicGate is not required for PSP game save.

Is it not? Why is it recommended for PSP use then? Is this in anticipation of purchased downloaded content?

And thanks for the interview. Okay it wasn;t KK but it was one who translated! To save everyone following the link Chatani says...

Q. Judging from the message that you recommend PS3 as a digital media center, it's very natural, in a sense, that it has an SD card slot. But as a default feature, in a Sony-branded product? It's unprecedent, isn't it?

A. To begin with we expect use with a digital camera as you can see from the fact that it has a CF slot too. Also, SD card is in many devices including mobile phones. Users will be annoyed if media have to be converted except for memsticks. Of course you want to put save data in all media types, don't you?

That clearly states their objective. And I think we've covered the reasons why this would be more beneficial than using an high-profit margin proprietary memory card only for saves.