Possibilities for DS3

[Sindre]

Metal Gear Solid 4 will take advantage of the gyro to some degree
Oh and MGS is "made for PS" and is real time by the way;-)

From : http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=139826

"The Metal Gear mastermind has new plans for Nintendo and Microsoft consoles.

Hideo Kojima today announced that he considered the Metal Gear Solid series to be 'made for for PlayStation platform'.

Kojima Productions will be working on Wii and Xbox 360 titles but, crucially, they won't be featuring Solid Snake. "If I was going to do a game on Wii or Xbox 360, I would do a completely different game - not Metal Gear Solid" said Kojima.

Kojima also went on to say that MGS 4 will have important online elements and will use the motion sensing properties of the Dual Shock 3 pad. Taking a swipe at pre rendered PS3 demos currently doing the rounds at E3, Kojima confirmed that the new MGS4 trailer is completely real time "one thing I want you to know is that these cinematics are done in real time on the demo kit".

CVG will have a feature length Kojima interview tomorrow."

Perheps Kojima San will reveal some new info tomorrow then!

 

[mckmas8808]

Yes Kojima is aboard. Gyros FTW!

 

[NANOTEC]

It's not a Dual Shock 3, it's a Dual Shockless 3.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Don't fret so, it's just a name. Doesn't need to describe the product. It's just a means of identifying the controller as the next version of the DS, Dual Shock, range. It'll probably remain DS3 or Dual Shock 3 until it gets officially rebranded, if ever. Which likely won't happen as there's not much need to brand a controller,and any renaming will likely be from a witty journalist thinking up something clever, like Wiimote.

 

[patsu]

NANOTEC, I'm trying to "feel" your argument. I'm getting the sense that your main objections are:
* Delayed input
* Too jittery (?) because you need precision to aim and shoot (in a dog fight)

I'm speculating that the controller movement probably needs to pass through some wickedly fast processing to moderate the tilt feedback (so it won't be jittery). Current advances in Science (teh Cell) may be able to cover both grounds above to give a better experiences (?).

I actually have a free ticket to E3. Don't make me drive 6 hours down to LA to try Warhawk out and report to you personally.

Ok took longer than I expected but at least I get to catch the last day. Will try out the new controller if they are not broken yet. Hopefully the queue is shorter.

The Dual Shock name is still apt. The rumble-less shock is more shocking than the rumble.

 

[NANOTEC]

The dogfight concern is with regards to the control being too slow not too "jittery". For example when you're chasing a plane you need to keep it within your targeting recticle and if the plane breaks to the right you need to break to the right with it. If the plane breaks to the right then immediately breaks to the left you need to be able to respond as soon as it happens. There is no room for a delay, otherwise you'll never keep the enemy centered because there will always be a delay. That is my concern.

 

[Ty]

The dogfight concern is with regards to the control being too slow not too "jittery". For example when you're chasing a plane you need to keep it within your targeting recticle and if the plane breaks to the right you need to break to the right with it. If the plane breaks to the right then immediately breaks to the left you need to be able to respond as soon as it happens. There is no room for a delay, otherwise you'll never keep the enemy centered because there will always be a delay. That is my concern.

Planes, even in arcadey flight sims, do not have a roll rate of infinity. Hence there is a delay already.

Mind you, I am not saying tilt sensor is going to feel good, but the delay aspect of twisting your gamepad from left to right or vice versa, should be a non-issue.

 

[NANOTEC]

Mind you, I am not saying tilt sensor is going to feel good, but the delay aspect of twisting your gamepad from left to right or vice versa, should be a non-issue.

Should be a non-issue? Why is that?

What it should be may be different from what it is.

Planes, even in arcadey flight sims, do not have a roll rate of infinity. Hence there is a delay already.

Sure but it adds to the control delay making control worse and less responsive. Take for example a game like SEGA's GLOC, it's very fast yet stil very playable using a standard stick control. Can a tilt controller give the same response from a person using two hands to tillt a game pad? I have a feeling the DS3 will feel very lethargic like Namco's NGcon controller.

 

[aldo]

I had mentioned some time back about being able to use motion on a controller to assist in aiming the reticule. I'm not sure if it would increase speed and accuracy, but I would love to know that all that extra contorting I'm doing when I aim is not going to waste.

Here's a new and interesting controller concept for FPS games:
http://gear.ign.com/articles/708/708054p1.html

-aldo

 

[Ty]

Should be a non-issue? Why is that?

What it should be may be different from what it is.

"Should" because neither you nor I actually have tried it.

Sure but it adds to the control delay making control worse and less responsive. Take for example a game like SEGA's GLOC, it's very fast yet stil very playable using a standard stick control.

Yes, it's quite possible that it could add to the delay (i.e. have more control lag). How much? I guess that's the $64 question.

Can a tilt controller give the same response from a person using two hands to tillt a game pad?

Sorry, what? Aren't they the same? Maybe I'm using the wrong terminology but isn't the DS3 'a tilt controller that a person would be using two hands to tilt?' Maybe you meant thumbstick?

Well assuming that the electronics aren't the cause of the lag in the tilt controller, I believe so. It's pretty easy to move your two wrists (one up, the other down) in a very fast manner. You might even get better granularity (something thumb sticks suck at) for finer control. I think the thumbstick would have a slight edge for extreme left-to-right (and vice versa) throws though.

I have a feeling the DS3 will feel very lethargic like Namco's NGcon controller.

You very well could be right but if so, I believe that will be not the idea but not the implementation.

 

[cthellis42]

It's not a Dual Shock 3, it's a Dual Shockless 3.

I was wondering when someone was going to point that out.

 

[NANOTEC]

"Should" because neither you nor I actually have tried it.

Then we can't say whether or not it "should" be a nonissue. That's like saying that rope over there should be a nonissue when you don't know how strong it is. It should be a nonissue for an ant yes, how about a fat person?

Sorry, what? Aren't they the same? Maybe I'm using the wrong terminology but isn't the DS3 'a tilt controller that a person would be using two hands to tilt?' Maybe you meant thumbstick?

You're separating a statement that is not iinteded to be ndependent. I'll reapeat the point again.

Take for example a game like SEGA's GLOC, it's very fast yet stil very playable using a standard stick control. Can a tilt controller give the same response from a person using two hands to tillt a game pad?

Same response is refereing to standard stick control reponse ie can the tilt give the same fast response as the stick which ias required for games like GLOC.

Well assuming that the electronics aren't the cause of the lag in the tilt controller, I believe so. It's pretty easy to move your two wrists (one up, the other down) in a very fast manner. You might even get better granularity (something thumb sticks suck at) for finer control. I think the thumbstick would have a slight edge for extreme left-to-right (and vice versa) throws though.

In other words it may not be as good as a thumbstick in terms of response kinda like how the NGcon didn't work too well compared to the thumbstick.

]You very well could be right but if so, I believe that will be not the idea but not the implementation.

Yes impllementation is a big factor no matter how good the electronics is. Take a look at alll the games with crappy controls using a thumbstick. will this tilt feature for Warhawk be a compelling feature or will it be a gimmick that doesn't even work as well as it needs to be?

 

[patsu]

NANOTEC,

I tried the motion sensing controller in E3 as promised.

+ There is indeed a very short delay when I swing the controller wildly, but once the swing is tracked, it continued to track my movement closely. I was surprised at the sensitivity. It's not jittery though. The delay is too short to be annoying for me but noticeable if you look for it.

+ Playing Warhawk with it feels ok (not frustrating). Warhawk seems to have 2 modes: (i) stationary in mid-air plus firing, and (ii) free-form flying. Aiming using the motion is ok in (i). As for (ii) I think it's slightly less accurate (more clumsy) than thumb sticks personally.

Overall, I think it's not too bad (as in it's usable). I would have preferred using the motion sensing to perform additional moves (or enhance basic moves). e.g., in Halo 2, you can get your Banshee to perform a barrel-roll and other acrobatic moves to avoid enemy fires. IMHO, it would be more natural to use the motion sensing to kick off those moves. We shouldn't need to turn the controller 360 degrees to make the plane roll/yaw/pitch. We only need to trigger the action using motion sensing. That way I think it will be functional and fun.

I like the new motion sensing feature and I'm glad Sony adds it.

As for rumbling, I think we will miss it under heavy fire. When things get crazy, we may not be able to tell whether and how badly we are hit without rumble. My plane exploded because I was fooling around, and also partly because I didn't know I was hit (so many times). The best solution is still for Sony to offer some form of feedback (If not rumble, just a nudge/poke ok ?).

P.S. This is off-topic. I think you guys should pay attention to Afrika too. It's really quite amazing. The Warhawk booth is beside the big screen. I jumped when some frigging animal growled behind me (when I was testing Warhawk).

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Thanks for going down to E3 as an agent. Excellent reporting. Did you get to try the Wiimote for comparison? I'd like to know how well Nintendo's alternative solution solves the lag issues.

The best solution is still for Sony to offer some form of feedback (If not rumble, just a nudge/poke ok ?).

An inflatable finger that comes out and pokes the player?

 

[cthellis42]

No... the new wireless Butt Rumbler(TM)! Your "hands shaking" is so played out... You need to feel it in your bones!

 

[patsu]

Not end of the world. Cheap bluetooth rumble will be one of the most popular gaming accessories next year (If Sony keep the rumble API).

I'll pick a gaming chair with a hand over my right shoulder.
+ Tap on the shoulder => Minor hit
+ Jab to the rib => Regular hit
+ Knock on the head => Major hit
+ Massage => Made high score
+ Cover my eyes with some gap for me to peek through => Playing Silent Hill, Resident Evil, ...
+ Off mode => Hold my drinks

Ok... I think it's time to close this thread :|

EDIT: I didn't try Wii. On the last day, the wait became 3 hour (according to the Nintendo guy I asked). I believed him because the line's ridiculously long. The initial delay may not be too bad (I reckoned it can be adjusted).

 

[MasaC]

about possibilities for the DS3:

I see a great possibility for PSP games like LocoRoco and Mercury to be downloadable games on Sony's online service.

It would be great to play those games on PS3 with the new motion sensor controller.

 

[dskneo]

many benifits for the tilt sensor (Well its more than a casual tilt)...
act as:
-leaning head in FPS's
-Free head view using cockpit view in cars
-steering wheel for cars
-motocycles or ATV's balance during air (this, would be awsome, a whole new definition to "landing")
-tilt sensor can FREE all buttons on pad for other new actions (whoo hoo! FPS with independent arms movement using the two thumb sticks!)


crazy devs will make the most out of it lol

 

[Shifty Geezer]

many benifits for the tilt sensor (Well its more than a casual tilt)...

it should more accurately be referred to as a motion sensor, or motion controller. Perhaps the DM controller instead of DS - Dual Motion?

 

[MasaC]

-leaning head in FPS's

Why not control the whole viewpoint and aiming by pitch and yaw sensoring in the X-axis? Then you could also have a modifier button on the controller (for example L1) to hold and then tilt the controler left or right in the Y-axis to peak around corners. The more you tilt the more you will see and at the same time reveal yourself.

EDIT: L1 modifier in above example could also be used like when holding it pressed and fast moving the controller downwards (Z-axis) you would drop to prone position. Doing it slower would make you kneel down and moving the controller upwards to get back up standing again.

EDIT2: Movement like forward/backward and sidestepping should be mapped to one of the joysticks as it is today.