Poll: pirated software and you

Do you have any pirated software installed?

  • Yes, I have some installed right now

    Votes: 74 71.8%
  • No I don't, but I have used pirated software in the past

    Votes: 26 25.2%
  • No, and I never have

    Votes: 3 2.9%

  • Total voters
    103
Yes, but most of my software is legit, same goes for music and the only film I have which is pirated is Jay and Silent Bob and that was given to me.

I was going to finally buy Windows XP, but then I saw the price. I simply can't afford it and even if I could I'd be very hesitent, spending that much on something which is part of a monopoly goes against my principles. :rolleyes:
 
When I was a student, I almost only used pirated SW since I couldn't afford buying the licenses. When I started working, I started buying stuff and have gradually left all the pirated stuff behind. So now I've been "clean" for quite some while.
 
As a software engineer who intends to make a living out of selling software (or working for companies that derive much of their income from it), it seems wrong to be using anything but legitimate software.

If you're willing to actually look for it, finding free alternatives (e.g. Wings and Blender instead of 3DSMax, Gimp instead of Photoshop) isn't actually that hard.

University students are well known for being blatant pirates - I think it's as much because it's often very easy to get hold of (I could download all sorts of stuff over the university network in very little time) as well as the price issue. But a lot of companies offer student rates (e.g. Microsoft's Academic Alliance) so I don't think theres much of an excuse.

I have an MSDN Universal subscription (or whatever it's called since VS05), and get a nice bundle of DVD's each month. I've got more versions of Windows than I care to count - most of them in languages I haven't got a clue how to read/write/speak :LOL:

Oh, and does B3D not have a policy against piracy? Over in the forums I moderate this sort of thread would have been eliminated on first site :D

Jack
 
JHoxley said:
Oh, and does B3D not have a policy against piracy? Over in the forums I moderate this sort of thread would have been eliminated on first sight :D

Jack
(Emphasize mine, I suppose that's what you meant.)

The rule is to not spread warez/pirated software, so you mustn't give specific insight about any site/organization/whatever related to warez.
But there's no reason not to talk about piracy as a phenomena.
 
If you're willing to actually look for it, finding free alternatives (e.g. Wings and Blender instead of 3DSMax, Gimp instead of Photoshop) isn't actually that hard.
QFT. i also want to point out, in the case of photoshop, i had a really rough time finding a useable alternative. i bounced around trying various image editors, and while i liked GiMP's free-ness and feature set the interface turned me off. i highly recomend anyone else who's looking for a low cost PS replacement try open canvas. it's about $70US for the "Plus" version and does pretty much anything you'd ant an image editir to do (layers, filters, ect)
 
Is it pirated? yes. is it illegal? yes. But have Discreet lost money? no ... because i was never gonna buy it on a uni budget to do a couple assignments.
I see this sort of argument fairly often. It does make sense - but at the end of the day if it came down to a court appearance you'd get laughed all the way to a big fine...

I think a few of the big companies do quietly ignore some piracy for this reason. Market share can be more valuable than the immediate sales.

Have discreet gained anything by uni students obtaining their software by such means?
A possible flipside is that if the stability/quality/usability of pirated software is crap (aka not as good as the one you should have paid for) you might not go (back) to the software/company as a paying customer. Some say that "first impressions are everything"!

This is particularly a risk for pirated pre-release software (like all the supposedly final Windows Vista products on EBay) - it can do a lot to damage the reputation and future sales of the product.

Ingenu said:
The rule is to not spread warez/pirated software, so you mustn't give specific insight about any site/organization/whatever related to warez.
Fair enough I suppose, but:
Ingenu said:
But there's no reason not to talk about piracy as a phenomena.
But people in this thread are admitting to using pirated/cracked software, thats not just discussion about piracy - that IS piracy ;)

Anyway, I have no particular interest in questioning the policies of this forum nor going on some flame-war crusade. Just set off my built-in moderator alarm bells when I read it :smile:

i also want to point out, in the case of photoshop, i had a really rough time finding a useable alternative. i bounced around trying various image editors, and while i liked GiMP's free-ness and feature set the interface turned me off.
I would agree with the GIMP comments, and also through in Blender - I hate that software with a passion! I've had the benefit of using PS and Max on a few occasions, and they are a lot better from what I've seen of free alternatives - but to me thats a case of value worth investing in. If you get it for free it's not so likely to have the polish (etc...) that a company with a big budgets can afford.

Jack
 
JHoxley said:
I would agree with the GIMP comments, and also through in Blender - I hate that software with a passion! I've had the benefit of using PS and Max on a few occasions, and they are a lot better from what I've seen of free alternatives - but to me thats a case of value worth investing in. If you get it for free it's not so likely to have the polish (etc...) that a company with a big budgets can afford.

Jack
yeah, that's definatly true most of the time. although, openoffice isn't that bad. in fact, it's interface is actualy quite good for free software. there are quite a few apps that have no free alternatives. there are no free dreamweaver or golive alternatives that i've found, for example.

something i forgot to mention about opencanvas... it supports .PSD (photoshop) files.
 
My lame attempt at validating my posession of pirated software:
So here's the deal:

I actually HAVE purchased every piece of software that's on my PC, but I may not have necessarily bought it on the PC platform. For example, I have all the GTA3 games (original, Vice City, San Andreas) but I bought them on the PS2. Shortly after I bought my 50" LCD TV, I wanted to start playing these games again -- but PS2's SD resolution sucks bad on such a big TV. So I took it upon myself to pirate the PC versions of these games to play in higher resolution. Same goes for NFS:Hot Pursuit 2 and NFS:Underground -- bought them both on PS2, but pirated another copy for my home PC so I could play at higher resolution.

Is it illegal? Pretty sure. Do I feel bad? It doesn't keep me awake at night. I spent the money buying the software because I felt it was worth it, but wanted it in higher resolution than the original device could sustain.

Oh well. Everything else is 100% legit, to include my OS.
 
It's a catch 22... at the beginning the small developer should be happy that people are pirating his/hers stuff, as if it is really better than the competition it will spread like wildfire and people will start using its paid versions. Soon the company will grow and will realize that it cannot get a much larger userbase so as the pretense to growth it will try to "kill" the piracy and increase revenue, as well the "piracy benefit" is long gone and the only way forward is to make everyone pay for the service it offers.

It could be argued that MSFT is in the position it's in today beacuse their early software (well even current) was very easy to get hold of, and thus contributed to "mass awareness" which was one of the factors that resulted in the products being present everywhere. Piracy certeanly helped when they were the underdogs in "office" type products...

Anyhow so there are pluses and minuses. IMO (for kiler :D ) I think that "private use" should be allowed, and the use where the software is making money for the user should be charged. Ie so for business and similar purposes the users would have to pay, and for private/educational it should be free. Of course that publishers shold be free to put up draconian copy protection schemes too, but I'd say none of that "huge fines for copying" stuff should be implemented as even though the publisher would want to charge for everything he produces, the public should as well have to have the "right" to test/try/learn at their discretion as long as they are not making money off the product. Thus if someone is sharing for free = no harm done.

That would get us rid of the artificial "struggle" and would work very well to increase the spread of knowledge. Ulitmately when the 3DMax pirate gets a job, he will be an expert and will pay for the licence of the product that will be making him money, quite simple really. No need for him to "not pay" and risk the cops coming after him when he is making a lot more $ than the product licence costs. So ownership becomes a very good proposition. Otherwise only students who are rich (or very keen to fight for lab spots at the Uni) will get the ability to learn more about the product/discipline that interests them. So in a way the fact that the poster above was able to pirate at the time was good for the company producing software, even though it is currently recognized as an "illegal action". In that situation if you had two companies with similar competitive producst both costink $1000 per licence, with one easy to pirate and the other one not. It is odds on that the "easy to pirate" would kill the "hard to pirate" one over the course of 5-10 years just due to it being accessible to people with no money and creating experts at no cost who will later on use the expertize to create value, and finally buy the products they used in the "learning phase" for free, as the money will not be an issue anymore.

The only products that should have a problem with this is "entertainment" value solution as their ultimate solution is not to make money, but to provide "fun", and again IMO there should be a limit on the legal system proscution as it is just the matter of price. For a person who is employed and OK with $ 40$ for a game is not too bad, perhaps if the games price fell to $20 a pop the sales thus revenue would be even higher, but the current state of the games industry is quite rigid and the games that attempt to lure users this way are very rare, it is not even expected to happen.

On the other hand having no persecution for copying, content distribution systems like "Steam" would get much higher and faster adoptability, and the publishers would still be free to enforce/price their products the way they see fit. The restriction of market through artificial (legal) means just slows down development, and lets old way of thinking survive much longer. In the former case (ie no legal threat) the old style publishers would be much faster to get on the "content distribution system" bandwagon or dissapear, and freedom on one side would result in good product on the other - ie workable alternative to protect the products would have been devised and adopted much faster.

This way the current developers cannot break with old style publishers really fast, there is no "true" incentive to switch when you can make it, and the change will happen, but it will be much slower as opposed to situation without "legal threat". Overall - private use = good; business use = money to developers. In the middle, the developers protecting their products the way they see fit. Just to point out, short of putting abusers to jail, current system just creates animosty between real paying users and the deveopers, as fairly often ripped games have actually higher reliability since the dubious copy protection schemes are actually making a good product unstable (see Starforce, or SafeDisk4).

In the end if this "suing action" would have been abandoned, the end solutions, which will happen anyhow in 5-10 years, would have just come sooner, as it stands, no client only based protection will work, and only systems where you will have to log on to the developer/publisher server to be able to use the product will have a chance of succeeding, but such a solution bypasses the legal system completely again, if anything this legal struggle vs private consumers is just a diversion which slows the change and adoptation of new content distribution systems, while creating the "enemy" feeling between us the paying customers and the product creators. (perhaps not the creators/developers so much, but the current publishers who have the most to lose, as their very existance in current shape is threathened, and will eventually be eliminated).

* ok so this was a short essay on the current state of privacy and piracy :D
 
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_xxx_ said:
When I was a student, I almost only used pirated SW since I couldn't afford buying the licenses. When I started working, I started buying stuff and have gradually left all the pirated stuff behind. So now I've been "clean" for quite some while.

I'm still in the student period, my windows is obviously pirated (hence I got windows 2003 as it's cleaner and IE is crippled for security, it's no different that most people having XP pro corporate or sometimes 2000..), a number of games are pirated but quite a number is legit (even if the legit games are mostly from 1992 to 1999 :)). One is a shareware I bought.
As for the apps/tools, most is freeware or opensource anyway (firefox, gaim, winamp, whatever).

for image editing : a cracked Paint Shop Pro 7.02, it's nice and launch fast. in the good old days I used shareware version 2 then 3, they had no time limit I think. When I'll be working I might buy it, always loved PSP (simple, powerful, ran on my DX2/66 with 4MB RAM..)

what I really miss : a legal platform for downloading high quality divx subtitled anime (and with reasonable price). Why not with first episode for free, even. Not software, but this is stuff you can only get with piracy!
 
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I brother went to some computer store a few months back and was looking for some photo software and the guy couldnt find it and suggested he check Edonkey.
 
I use a copy of a "corporate version of an OS" because it allows installation on multiple computers. I don't see the point in buying 5 copies of the same "consumer version" to install on multiple computers which all belong to myself. Back in the day you could buy one version of said OS and install it on multiple computers which you own and that makes sense.
 
Albuquerque said:
I actually HAVE purchased every piece of software that's on my PC, but I may not have necessarily bought it on the PC platform.
Interesting! To any and all: do you feel that there is a market out there for publishers to sell a license to use a given piece of software on any platform they see fit? I suppose this especially applies to software with cross-platform interoperability.
 
NANOTEC said:
I use a copy of a "corporate version of an OS" because it allows installation on multiple computers. I don't see the point in buying 5 copies of the same "consumer version" to install on multiple computers which all belong to myself. Back in the day you could buy one version of said OS and install it on multiple computers which you own and that makes sense.
Yes, but than MS wouldn't make that extra $500 profit.
 
NANOTEC said:
I use a copy of a "corporate version of an OS" because it allows installation on multiple computers.
You'd still get busted for that though. It's the licence not the physical media/binaries that are worth money. If you read those million-page EULA's they talk about your right to use it - not that you own it.

NANOTEC said:
I don't see the point in buying 5 copies of the same "consumer version" to install on multiple computers which all belong to myself.
Yeah, I see your point. But it doesn't stand up though.

I only know about MS software licence, but for home use they typically cover either 2 or 3 machines - the idea being that you can install Office on your desktop and on your laptop for example. Maybe you're an exception, but it'd be rare for a home user to have more than 3 computers unless they were either very rich or some sort of IT enthusiast/professional - neither of which should complain at forking out for the value attributed to what they're using. Anything above that and you're starting to get into the licencing for small businesses.

NANOTEC said:
Back in the day you could buy one version of said OS and install it on multiple computers which you own and that makes sense.
Just because you could do that with pre-activation (e.g. Win95/Win98) OS's doesn't mean it was legal.

To any and all: do you feel that there is a market out there for publishers to sell a license to use a given piece of software on any platform they see fit?
Yes, there is potentially a market for this. However, there are probably very few companies that can offer such a thing (most of Microsoft's software is Windows-only for example), and those that can (e.g. Adobe, Macromedia..) will probably find that most of their clients will be using a single platform anyway.

Cheers,
Jack
 
When I buy other types of software, i can install it on multiple computers which I own. All of my computers are for home use. I have a laptop and 4 desktops, one for each room. I recently purchased Paint Shop Pro 8.1 legally and I plan on installing it on multiple computers in my home. When I buy a music CD, I make backup copies of it for use in my car, home, work etc. That is the way it's supposed to be. It doesn't make sense to have to buy 1 CD for home, 1 CD for work, 1 CD for car.
 
JHoxley said:
You'd still get busted for that though. It's the licence not the physical media/binaries that are worth money. If you read those million-page EULA's they talk about your right to use it - not that you own it.

Yes, let's cave to corporations demands so that they can make more money off of us while imposing artificial limits. :rolleyes:

I only know about MS software licence, but for home use they typically cover either 2 or 3 machines - the idea being that you can install Office on your desktop and on your laptop for example. Maybe you're an exception, but it'd be rare for a home user to have more than 3 computers unless they were either very rich or some sort of IT enthusiast/professional - neither of which should complain at forking out for the value attributed to what they're using. Anything above that and you're starting to get into the licencing for small businesses.

It's not rare at all. Families often have at least two computers and often more for the parents and kids. MS does not allow any of their oses to be installed more than once except those with corporate keys, which cost in the many thousands of dollars.
 
This is not directed at anyone in particular:

Discussing piracy is okay (even healthy), discussing why you do it or how valid you think your reasons may be is not. If you don't agree with the letter of the law write to your representative in your respective parliament asking to introduce a change in existing laws.
 
let's cave to corporations demands so that they can make more money off of us while imposing artificial limits.
I'm not trying to justify that what the corporations are doing is a good thing. But I'm sure that IBM and Microsoft would be quite happy if you caved to their demands :devilish:

It's not rare at all. Families often have at least two computers and often more for the parents and kids.
Maybe it's a comment on your part of society? - I only know of 2 familes that have multiple PC's in their house, and the only other people I know with multiple computers are IT professionals.

Also, if the children are in full-time education (very likely) then they should be eligible for the "Students and Teachers" / academic licencing from MS. You can get Office and Windows for peanuts through that scheme. That'd cover at least one of the machines.

Chances are that the computers would have been built "pre-made" from your local computer store. The price of the licence is included in that unit price - thanks to volume licencing and all that jazz they can bundle a copy of XP with your machine at a lower price point than if you went and bought it yourself.

Okay, it's only one specific example relating to Microsoft software, but with that in mind I don't think there's any way of justifying a pirated copy of the OS or Office if you're a lucky household with 5 computers (etc..)

@NANOTEC - I'm not disagreeing with your argument, myself I'm suspicious of much of this DRM and other copy-crap you get in "physical media" music (I can understand it in downloads). My point is that Microsoft (etc..) choose to sell/licence their products in this way - if you don't think the price point is acceptable you should go somewhere else (yes, I know this is a bit difficult given their monopoly, but it's not impossible).

Mordenkainen said:
Discussing piracy is okay (even healthy), discussing why you do it or how valid you think your reasons may be is not.
Couldn't agree more. I questioned this thread from the outset ;)

Seems that most of what people are discussing is just a thinly disguised attempt to justify the fact that they're breaking the law.

Cheers,
Jack
 
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