Playstation 5 [PS5] [Release November 12 2020]

Shifty Geezer said:
I don't think that's at odds with what's been said. 'Core console gaming' isn't growing. Nintendo doing their thing has managed to keep a certain section of the gaming market healthy. If Nintendo succeed, or fail, that doesn't change the landscape for 'core console' games and how much money can be made there.
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It is at odds when we view the console market as predominantly made up of "core gamers" and we remove Nintendo out of the picture. Traditionally the PS audience for example wasn't consisting only of core gamers. It's appeal was wide to all kinds of demographics. Otherwise it is a biased statistical analysis of the console market to interpret PS and XBOX solely as core. At best what this perspective describes, it's Sony's and MS's ability or inability to grow their market. But then you have to dive in and see who is exiting, who is maintained and who is entering, and whoever is exiting where is he going and why. Is there a large chunk of the market that Sony was attracting moving to Switch, PC and/or mobile gaming? It is not different from just picking XBOX sales to derive conclusions about the console market while ignoring that other platforms may be growing. In addition if someone wants to conclude about the interest of gamers growing, stalling or shrinking, someone needs to measure how many software units are moving, and the consumer's propensity to buy at each console price level. There is a chance that interest is there, but the console price is the major barrier of growth. The PS1 and PS2 were perfect because they could reduce their console price and thus could attract more and more people who could buy a AA title and be super happy like Crash Team Racing, Parappa The Rapper, Klonoa, SingStar, Buzz or Kula Quest. All titles that we assume to find on Switch.

Ton of casuals were buying PSOne and PS2 Slim for their casual gaming needs. And Sony could support lower budget titles for them.

Now these same needs are covered better by Nintendo.

But the PS5 and Series are stuck at the same price points since launch and selling quite well considering that, but exhausting how much they can sell at this price point.
 
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I don't think price matters as much after the inflation we've had. $500 isn't what it used to be.

It's safe to say that Nintendo ate Sony's kids launch with the Switch. A lot of parents that would have bought a PS4 or PS5 for their kids likely bought a Switch instead.

Even doubling the number of consoles from 2000 to 2020 is only about 4% annual growth, and that didn't happen at all. The growth was probably 2% or something, which is why Sony and MS are in the position they're in.
 
Johnny Awesome said:
I don't think price matters as much after the inflation we've had. $500 isn't what it used to be.

It's safe to say that Nintendo ate Sony's kids launch with the Switch. A lot of parents that would have bought a PS4 or PS5 for their kids likely bought a Switch instead.

Even doubling the number of consoles from 2000 to 2020 is only about 4% annual growth, and that didn't happen at all. The growth was probably 2% or something, which is why Sony and MS are in the position they're in.
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I m sure that PCs also ate from the console market growth.
 
Johnny Awesome said:
I don't think price matters as much after the inflation we've had. $500 isn't what it used to be.
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The difference is that the inflation is not aligned with a collective increase of income. There is a global economic crisis. That $500 is felt. 4 years without a price drop is also felt by those that are willing to buy but still waiting for a better price
 
True. $500 isn't what it used to be but it's still $500. It's still half of $1,000 so it will still have that as a psychological barrier to being purchased by a large portion of consumers. If their pay got upgraded to increase ahead of inflation it may not be that big of a deal but since that isn't happening for many then that barrier remains. It's sad that we've hit limits where inflation may have wiped away whatever cost savings we could have otherwise received due to changes in manufacturing. But that's where we are.

As for console sales basically having plateaued maybe they have with the traditional console model. We'll see by the end of the gen. Though I do find it interesting that Sony expects sales or PS5 to start declining from here on out. I wonder if those figures include the alleged PS5 pro or just the base model.
 
As far as a mid-gen refresh, did the PS4 Pro and the XB1 X sell in good volumes?

I guess that will tell us if Sony and MS intend to do a mid-gen refresh again.
 
Nesh said:
The difference is that the inflation is not aligned with a collective increase of income. There is a global economic crisis. That $500 is felt. 4 years without a price drop is also felt by those that are willing to buy but still waiting for a better price.
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So $500 is a lot of money and yet you're worried that PS users are going to jump to $1500 PCs to play 2 year old Spider-Man 2 ports....
 
Johnny Awesome said:
So $500 is a lot of money and yet you're worried that PS users are going to jump to $1500 PCs to play 2 year old Spider-Man 2 ports....
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PCs are general purpose devices, a necessity for every household, that come in many prices that can also play games. Another $500 to play games is a waste for many. While many hardcore gamers willing to spend, can easily shift to PCs, and many casuals waiting for price drops are waiting. A gamer isn't a flat one dimensional demographic. You know that pretty well.
 
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Shifty Geezer said:
Not any more. Plenty operate on iPads and phones.
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Plenty while not owning a PC at all can be any number that is a natural occurance by the simple existence of a huge statistical sample. How much does it compare to the number of households owning PCs and are the households owning PCs insignificant?
 
Dunno. But you said PCs are a necessity as an absolute. That's not the case - you can live without a PC and homes aren't required to have one.
 
Shifty Geezer said:
Dunno. But you said PCs are a necessity as an absolute. That's not the case - you can live without a PC and homes aren't required to have one.
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Depends how you define "required". And if operating ipads and phones equals zero use of PCs in a meaningful number of homes, enough that can give credence to your point and not referring to simply potentials.
 
Nesh said:
Depends how you define "required".
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Not 'required', but "a necessity" by your words. You are saying every home has to have a PC, and as such that PC can be used for gaming. What are the necessary functions a PC provides that cannot be (and in some homes is) provided by other devices?
 
Shifty Geezer said:
Not 'required', but "a necessity" by your words. You are saying every home has to have a PC, and as such that PC can be used for gaming. What are the necessary functions a PC provides that cannot be (and in some homes is) provided by other devices?
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And I said I accept the existence of outliers later

You are grasping unto a word by relying on the potentiality of outliers instead on focusing on the meat of the discussion. Are you talking about potentials or do you have measurable data that show a significant meaningful X amount of households have fully abandoned PC to the point that PC gaming or PC ownership in general is also contracting or even reduced sizeably?
 
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