Playstation 5 [PS5] [Release November 12 2020]

[Deleted member 13524]

From the data gathering of fan / heat output I'm assuming they're simply watching fan / temperature timelines on different games to improve the fan's control.
They can use this data to do a number of things, such as trying to avoid sudden fan speed ups that are audible and annoying. They can decide when the fan should progressively speed up before a demanding scene comes up.
Or e.g. to preemptively decrease the APU's temperature by slightly increasing fan speed towards 33dBA because they know there's a demanding 5-10min scene coming up, and this will avoid increasing the fan towards e.g. 36dBA in the middle of said scene.


This is just a feature implemented to improve the user experience and keep noise to a minimum. It has nothing to do with clocks and their power budget.
All that Ootori said was they were going to improve fan control, it has nothing to do with clocks.

 

[Tkumpathenurple]

The PS4Pro suffered enormously from sudden ramps in fan speed, which are especially audible and impact the user experience. It would have benefited quite a bit from fan speed related firmware updates.

Sony are clearly being especially cautious in terms of fan noise this time around, both because the Pro was so bloody loud, and because the PS5's clockspeeds necessitate it.

Also, the variable clockspeed design is uncharted territory for Sony. So they have built a device which can gather plenty of data and be tinkered with to improve or maintain the user experience.

I don't see the need for such a storm in a teacup.

 

[dobwal]

From the data gathering of fan / heat output I'm assuming they're simply watching fan / temperature timelines on different games to improve the fan's control.
They can use this data to do a number of things, such as trying to avoid sudden fan speed ups that are audible and annoying. They can use this data to decide when the fan should progressively speed up before a demanding scene comes up.
Or e.g. to preemptively decrease the APU's temperature by slightly increasing fan speed towards 33dBA because they know there's a demanding 5-10min scene coming up, and this will avoid increasing the fan towards e.g. 36dBA in the middle of said scene.


This is just a feature implemented to improve the user experience and keep noise to a minimum. It has nothing to do with clocks and their power budget.
All that Ootori said was they were going to improve fan control, it has nothing to do with clocks.

I doubt Sony cares this much. I really don't expect Sony to profile thousands of games across a gen to manage fan speed on a scene by scene basis.

If a console constantly finds itself aggressively spinning up to combat heat where users find this audibly unsatisfying then you design your next console with fans that can accommodate tackling such heat spikes without the noise. Profiling the heat generation of game code on a scene by scene basis across a console's library for predictive fan controls seems like a bit of over-engineering to me.

Sony is probably collecting data to getting a better ideal of the typical conditions that the PS5 faces in the wild and tweaking the fan profile to better accommodate those setups. Environmental conditions are the one thing Sony can't control and may be unable to readily predict. It relatively the largest console thats Sony has ever produced, so you really can't be sure how PS5 gamers will accommodate its size. Maybe most will placed on top of their entertainment centers or give it able spacing where the current profile is sufficient. Maybe Sony encounters a common circumstance of gamers trying to squeeze the console into an undesirable environment. Sony may want to tweak fan controls to accommodate people that don't understand they are turning their entertainment centers into hot saunas.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

I doubt Sony cares this much. I really don't expect Sony to profile thousands of games across a gen to manage fan speed on a scene by scene basis.

So your take is that Ootori was.. lying?
Sony isn't going to profile thousands of games by hand. They're just sending all the game metadata + fan + temperature timeline data towards a compute server doing data analytics and machine learning that then outputs an optimized fan profile per title. It's a cheap thing to do nowadays.

 

[dobwal]

So your take is that Ootori was.. lying?
Sony isn't going to profile thousands of games by hand. They're just sending all the game metadata + fan + temperature timeline data towards a compute server doing data analytics and machine learning that then outputs an optimized fan profile per title. It's a cheap thing to do nowadays.

No. I don't think he is lying. Gathering metadata that includes game ID, fan and temperature data doesn't assert that fan profiles will be the managing temperature on a scene by scene basis outside of traditional means. You can gather all that data and produce a limited number of fan profiles which each game gets assigned to accommodate minimizing of noise. His statements don't naturally mean that every game will get its own specific fan profile.

I'm working from just a few sentences he stated from the article. If you have more info please point me to it.

 

[Kugai Calo]

Isn't it as simple as, this game on average runs a bit hotter so the fan speed will be increased by a constant percentage? Nobody needs to be lying here.

 

[Globalisateur]

Isn't it as simple as, this game on average runs a bit hotter so the fan speed will be increased by a constant percentage? Nobody needs to be lying here.

No. They have 4 temperature sensors for that. It's actually the contrary. Often when the temperature is rising the fan is suddenly spinning a bit too much because it doesn't know if the temperature increase is going to stabilize quickly or not. It is what happens in the launch Pro model for instance.

 

[Kugai Calo]

No. They have 4 temperature sensors for that. It's actually the contrary. Often when the temperature is rising the fan is suddenly spinning a bit too much because it doesn't know if the temperature increase is going to stabilize quickly or not. It is what happens in the launch Pro model for instance.

That’s why they adjust it via software update, to prevent it from spinning too fast.

 

[Pete]

I guess this is a question of anticipating the next Doom 3 (a game that uses the GPU in ways it hadn’t been previously and maybe stressed HSFs beyond expected tolerances)? Because how can Sony release a system with a HSF that can’t handle its APU’s worst case?

I don’t understand the concept of warning the system of an intense scene to speed up the fan ahead of time (although it would be a better use of the achievements framework than participation trophies ). That may slow the fan ramp in that one case, but what about when I decide to pull up the world map (a problem with a few current gen games) or even swing from looking at the corner of a room to the fire-breathing dragon and back?

The PS4Pro suffered enormously from sudden ramps in fan speed, which are especially audible and impact the user experience. It would have benefited quite a bit from fan speed related firmware updates.

The PS4 Pro’s problem is the max fan speed, not the ramp, right? I’m more annoyed by the noise level my Pro settles at than at how quickly it got there.

I don't see the need for such a storm in a teacup.

Are you telling us console fans not to be so noisy? “Don’t be such a Delta.”

(The Eurogamer article has some quality puns in the comments.)

I admit I view post-release fan control updates with suspicion, as in it can only get noisier, so I am a bit worried about this otherwise innocuous detail. As much as I love tech, I don’t care what my console’s fan temp/rpm table looks like, just that its HSF is reasonably quiet.

 

[BRiT]

I guess this is a question of anticipating the next Doom 3 (a game that uses the GPU in ways it hadn’t been previously and maybe stressed HSFs beyond expected tolerances)? Because how can Sony release a system with a HSF that can’t handle its APU’s worst case?

No worries, the next Doom 3 won't be released on PS5...

 

[Tabris]

https://blog.ja.playstation.com/2020/10/20/20201020-psvr/
Sony just announced PSVR value bundles for Japan
PSVR
PS Move x2
PS Camera
PS Camera Adapter for PS5
4 physical game
39800Yen+tax

Original price is 34800Yen+tax for PSVR + Camera

Current PSVR owners can get PS5 adapter for free

 

[orangpelupa]

Someone of arstechnica.com comment made this nice observation hahaha

So if the fans suddenly spin up while everything is still quiet in game...,
expect a bunch of monsters in the next few seconds with all hell breaking loose.
That should be fun at night.
Do that a few month and see if you start to get jumpy if someone starts a vacuum cleaner nearby.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I guess this is a question of anticipating the next Doom 3 (a game that uses the GPU in ways it hadn’t been previously and maybe stressed HSFs beyond expected tolerances)? Because how can Sony release a system with a HSF that can’t handle its APU’s worst case?

It's an odd thing to want to implement but when it comes to changing situations that are predictable I've always been a fan of being pro-active rather than reactive. Bad analogy but if you know your shed will catch fire at 2pm on Thursday, do you call the fire department in advance or wait until the shed is ablaze? If the PS5 knows a particular stretch of a game is going to push the hardware, why wait until that happens then aggressively ramp up the fans when you can increase fan speed gradually in advance?

As for why Sony thought it was worth doing... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ That copped a lot of flack for PS4/Pro fan noise, it feels like this is an over-compensation.

 

[orangpelupa]

, it feels like this is an over-compensation.

the whole PS5 is like an overengineered piece, to my eyes.

1. Curved Fins to make sure noone able to stack PS5 and it have proper space surrounding it.
2. liquid metal TIM with huuuuuge HSF
3. per-game fan curves
4. SSD with crazy amounts of lanes and queue depth (and requiring top of the line PC SSD as additional storage
5. dust catchers
6. safety covers on the internal fan because sony "want it to be safe for the user even when turned on while the fins were removed".

 

[cheapchips]

safety covers on the internal fan because sony "want it to be safe for the user even when turned on while the fins were removed".

Yeah, that's properly disappointing. They should have left it uncovered and drawn a shark's mouth around it. Much more fun.

 

[goonergaz]

the whole PS5 is like an overengineered piece, to my eyes.

1. Curved Fins to make sure noone able to stack PS5 and it have proper space surrounding it.
2. liquid metal TIM with huuuuuge HSF
3. per-game fan curves
4. SSD with crazy amounts of lanes and queue depth (and requiring top of the line PC SSD as additional storage
5. dust catchers
6. safety covers on the internal fan because sony "want it to be safe for the user even when turned on while the fins were removed".

All joking aside, I wonder if the cover also acts as a dust deflector of some sort helping push dust away and towards the catchers?

 

[orangpelupa]

All joking aside, I wonder if the cover also acts as a dust deflector of some sort helping push dust away and towards the catchers?

it looks to be funneling the air thru pre defined locations. so yeah, it could also make the dust catcher works better

 

[Arwin]

It can’t be that long now before reviewers etc get access to PS5 hardware, right? Right??

 

[Globalisateur]

It can’t be that long now before reviewers etc get access to PS5 hardware, right? Right??

Sure, november 12.

 

[London Geezer]

Sure, november 12.

At least we have one whole week in the UK and Europe to cAnCeL pReOrDeRs!