PlayStation 4 (codename Orbis) technical hardware investigation (news and rumours)

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adid you really want other examples of sony mimic?
They all innovate and copy. Move predates Wii in Sony's RnD. EyeToy predates Kinect. If someone else has a good idea that you can copy (cost, value, technical and patent limitations notwithstanding) you do so, obviously, but it's ludicrous to interpret history as Sony running around copying everyone else, and to believe the choice regards RAM reservation is just them stupidly copying MS's (rumoured) choice.

Sony's choice for RAM reservation will be based on their system and platform design, not blindly copying anyone else.
 
They all innovate and copy. Move predates Wii in Sony's RnD. EyeToy predates Kinect. If someone else has a good idea that you can copy (cost, value, technical and patent limitations notwithstanding) you do so, obviously, but it's ludicrous to interpret history as Sony running around copying everyone else, and to believe the choice regards RAM reservation is just them stupidly copying MS's (rumoured) choice.

Sony's choice for RAM reservation will be based on their system and platform design, not blindly copying anyone else.

Exactly.
And IMO that can be said for the specs as well.
 
They all innovate and copy. Move predates Wii in Sony's RnD. EyeToy predates Kinect. If someone else has a good idea that you can copy (cost, value, technical and patent limitations notwithstanding) you do so, obviously, but it's ludicrous to interpret history as Sony running around copying everyone else, and to believe the choice regards RAM reservation is just them stupidly copying MS's (rumoured) choice.

this is what I am saying;

anyway kinect have nothing to share with eyetoy, one is a 3d hardware/software space motion control, other is a webcam, if you're suggesting that kinect mimic eyetoy, you're totally wrong


Sony's choice for RAM reservation will be based on their system and platform design, not blindly copying anyone else.

sorry Shifty but.. based on what?
 
this is what I am saying;

anyway kinect have nothing to share with eyetoy, one is a 3d hardware/software space motion control, other is a webcam, if you're suggesting that kinect mimic eyetoy, you're totally wrong

Eye toy had games that allowed you to interact with the games via your body, in a similar albeit a lot less well done way that kinect does.
 
this is what I am saying;

anyway kinect have nothing to share with eyetoy, one is a 3d hardware/software space motion control, other is a webcam, if you're suggesting that kinect mimic eyetoy, you're totally wrong

sorry Shifty but.. based on what?


So you think that Kinect isn't a mimic because it added Depth to it's motion tracking but PlayStation Move is a mimic when it also added full 3d Depth tracking , AR , Head tracking & more to what a wiimote can do?
 
From the blur filter used (low quality, not enough samples) I can tell it only has 5 GB available for developers. Very disappointed. :no:
 
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From blur filter used (low quality, not enough samples) I can tell it only has 5 GB available for developers. Very disappointed. :no:
LOL
smiley30.gif
 
well unless you're claiming to be a dev (an a quick glance at your post history doesn't suggest it), it's meaningless. slightly more meaningless than a guy who says he's a dev on a chinese message board, i guess.

look it's just a evidence point. like i said on gaf, we arent even likely to know how much ps4 reserves. i lost track of ps3's ever changing nebulous reserve amount a ways ago.

It is very strange to analyze the available GDDR 5 RAM for game developers just from KZ demo. Because a 10-min demo may not need extremely large storage. It is possible that the total file size of KZ:SF demo is just 4.5 GB and SCE put all of them into RAM (just thinkhow large these PC/PS3 demos are).
 
Trying to understand the justification, which I hope is better than, "heck, 5GBs is enough compared to last gen. Let's just put the rest aside and see what happens in a few years." ;)

There's something like 2 GBs 'spare' RAM in the 8 GB configuration. It's RAM that's likely not going to be being accessed constantly whether it has game assets stores away there or background tasks or user applicaitons. Would it be better for games to allow precaching for 2 GBs games assets, like more megatexture tiles in complex city environments? Or better to keep resident 50 different utilities and social apps that the user can flip to the front in an instant? Different folk will have different preferences, but the justification for needing that much for apps somewhat confuses me. Even looking forwards I can't see where the change is going to come. We talked about this at length in the next gen tech thread, about Durango reserving 3 GBs, and it seemed a gig or more could be used for Kinect and stuff, rather than 'apps'. What future requires a console to do more than a current iPad? Is the web going to become less and less efficient and just become retina-quality images taking up a gig a page or something equally ridiculous?

I think they are just playing it safe. If they don't use it, they can give it back to developers, no harm done. It's not less than what the next Xbox has available, which is the important part.
 
Trying to understand the justification, which I hope is better than, "heck, 5GBs is enough compared to last gen. Let's just put the rest aside and see what happens in a few years." ;)

There's something like 2 GBs 'spare' RAM in the 8 GB configuration. It's RAM that's likely not going to be being accessed constantly whether it has game assets stores away there or background tasks or user applicaitons. Would it be better for games to allow precaching for 2 GBs games assets, like more megatexture tiles in complex city environments? Or better to keep resident 50 different utilities and social apps that the user can flip to the front in an instant? Different folk will have different preferences, but the justification for needing that much for apps somewhat confuses me. Even looking forwards I can't see where the change is going to come. We talked about this at length in the next gen tech thread, about Durango reserving 3 GBs, and it seemed a gig or more could be used for Kinect and stuff, rather than 'apps'. What future requires a console to do more than a current iPad? Is the web going to become less and less efficient and just become retina-quality images taking up a gig a page or something equally ridiculous?

I am of the opinion that Sony should reserve the same as you can always release portions of reserved ram. However, I would hate it, if Sony loses the ability to present a feature or utility because it left itself too little of RAM like with cross party chat.

I think that MS actually reserved more RAM than it practically needs to accommodate future features. "Good" enough for right now might be "not" enough in the future.
 
I would hate it, if Sony loses the ability to present a feature or utility because it left itself too little of RAM like with cross party chat.

All the same I would hate it, if PS4 loses one of its advantages over modern PC - amount of GDDR5 available for games, which shouldn't be surpassed in next 2 or 3 years. It can and should make a diffrence in gameplay quality, differentiate console games from PC and stop "PC is already nextgen" talk.
 
The real problem for PS3’s situation was the limited 256MB + 256MB RAM. Sony couldn’t find any more RAM to use, whether it’s in the game space, or in the OS space.

On PS4, there are 8GB unified RAM. It doesn’t really matter whether some system stuff run in the reserved OS RAM or the app/game RAM. There are enough RAM to go about. Sony should only need to reserve RAM for the OS exclusively for security reason.

It is totally possible for system services to run in the game space. There is no real need to reserve them in the OS. They can design and code the system services such that it can be available to all games automagically too. They just eat into the game RAM.

EDIT: Reserving 2GB for “wait-and-see” is wasteful. The vendors should have concrete plans for the physical RAM.
 
The real problem for PS3’s situation was the limited 256MB + 256MB RAM. Sony couldn’t find any more RAM to use, whether it’s in the game space, or in the OS space.

On PS4, there are 8GB unified RAM. It doesn’t really matter whether some system stuff run in the reserved OS RAM or the app/game RAM. There are enough RAM to go about. Sony should only need to reserve RAM for the OS exclusively for security reason?

It is totally possible for system services to run in the game space. There is no real need to reserve them in the OS. They can design and code the system services such that it can be available to all games automagically too. They just eat into the game RAM.

EDIT: Reserving 2GB for “wait-and-see” is wasteful. The vendors should have concrete plans for the physical RAM.

Who wants system services running into the game space?

Its not wasteful to reserve RAM especially in this case. You expect console devs to go from living with 512 mb to chewing through 6-7 GBs in no time. Whats so special about the current design that makes streaming solution developed last gen unfeasible this gen.

Devs are mostly likely to keep development between the two consoles as common as possible. Even if you end up with devs deploying ram hungry games capable of easily eating through 6-7 GBs of RAM they will probably employ some streaming solution on the 720 to accommodate its limit of 5 GB. Third parties spent the last gen working more to maintain parity versus using the strength of the hardware to differentiate ports. The problem with that is MS is likely to try to use its reserved RAM to accommodate features that it will market as differentiators.

Reserving ram now at least allows you to see what Durango offers as services before you potentially limit your ability to provide similar services.
 
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The data buffers can reside in the game space while the system services access them (e.g., total audio data in KZSF is half a gig ?). The actual system code and space can be very small. Reserving 3GB “just in case” is way overkill.

e.g., It’d be more useful and interesting to have RemotePlay running in a full background game, together with another game/app running in the foreground.
 
I'm more worried about whether PS4 will have the full feature set that PS3 had, more than I am about the system RAM reservation.

In particular, I use the DLNA compatibility on PS3 more than any single other feature. If PS4 can no longer stream videos from my Linux box, it won't be the box that's on by default under my tv.
 
So you think that Kinect isn't a mimic because it added Depth to it's motion tracking but PlayStation Move is a mimic when it also added full 3d Depth tracking , AR , Head tracking & more to what a wiimote can do?

why some have to think it's a clone?

playstationmove_wii.jpg
 
Again PS Move predates Wii remote of 2 years.
And again you must realize that "there is nothing new under the sun" and that nothing is created ex nihilo.

He's got some point though. We might have not seen Move (and probably Kinect) this generation if it wasnt for Wii's motion control success.
I doubt we would have seen trophies and in-game dashboard on the PS3 if it wasnt for 360's implementation.
Sure some strategies dont change, but there is a room of flexibility that companies may use to adapt to the offers of competition.
 
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