PlayStation 4 (codename Orbis) technical hardware investigation (news and rumours)

[scf]

There also used to be throttling in software, that was removed for development, but I don't know what the final call for end user units was.

Why throttle at all?

 

[ERP]

Why throttle at all?

It makes testing easier.
One less axis in your matrix, though it's a somewhat dubious win IMO.

 

[Npl]

It makes testing easier.
One less axis in your matrix, though it's a somewhat dubious win IMO.

Makes sense during development, but for end-users?

Also I wonder about the difference between sata 300 and 600 at this point of time and in the future. At some point it has to be more expensive to support an older standard while all common chips soppurt the new one?
(Afaik Sata is nicely compatible/evolved unlike USB3 which shares little more than the physical connector with its predecessor)

 

[BRiT]

Makes sense during development, but for end-users?

So you want to run software in untested conditions? Sounds anti-console.

 

[ERP]

Makes sense during development, but for end-users?

It only really matters to end users, you don't want to ship a game and have it fail on faster drives because of some race condition you didn't see in testing on a slower device.
Having said that, I think those types of issues are rare enough it's not a real win.

As to the interface, it will be clearer when the first tear downs are done, but there are hardware reasons you will never get anywhere near 300MB/s in practice.

 

[MrFox]

I guess as long as they tell people that only 5400 drives are guaranteed to work properly (basically, the FAQ says that), that leaves them little reason to cap the speed in software.

Too bad about the hardware bottleneck Has anything leaked about the south bridge yet, how it's connected to the main SoC?

The south bridge already has 369MB/s needed for the camera port, 27MB/s for the ODD, up to 100MB/s for the LAN, and at least 100MB/s for the HDD. If they are using a single lane PCIe 2.0, it would be nearly maxed out already. And the front USB3 ports wouldn't be very useful either.

 

[bkilian]

It only really matters to end users, you don't want to ship a game and have it fail on faster drives because of some race condition you didn't see in testing on a slower device.
Having said that, I think those types of issues are rare enough it's not a real win.

As to the interface, it will be clearer when the first tear downs are done, but there are hardware reasons you will never get anywhere near 300MB/s in practice.

Wait, don't tell me... They're using USB 3.0 for the HDD and ODD instead of a direct SATA?

 

[dumbo11]

Too bad about the hardware bottleneck Has anything leaked about the south bridge yet, how it's connected to the main SoC?

The south bridge already has 369MB/s needed for the camera port, 27MB/s for the ODD, up to 100MB/s for the LAN, and at least 100MB/s for the HDD. If they are using a single lane PCIe 2.0, it would be nearly maxed out already. And the front USB3 ports wouldn't be very useful either.

AMDs A10 APUs use UMI for that connection (4 lane PCIe 2.0).

 

[imaxx]

There also used to be throttling in software, that was removed for development

...out of curiosity, when it would have been removed from the (I suppose) kernel?

 

[ERP]

...out of curiosity, when it would have been removed from the (I suppose) kernel?

Several months ago, it was removed in response to a request from a team who had swapped the drives in their devkits with SSD's to reduce startup times in development, only to discover that at the time they didn't actually run any faster.

 

[Lalaland]

Several months ago, it was removed in response to a request from a team who had swapped the drives in their devkits with SSD's to reduce startup times in development, only to discover that at the time they didn't actually run any faster.

Fascinating, I've always wondered if some games would fall over if I/O got too far ahead of what the program was expecting but it hadn't occurred to me that Sony or MS would just throttle I/O in s/w. Kind of torn on this one to be honest I see the attraction of SSD having gotten one for the PC but given that both systems are essentially dumping ISOs onto the hdd I'm concerned about capacity also.

Or more accurately I'm concerned at the cost of that capacity in an SSD, no way I'm dropping the cash for a >250GB SSD but if the speed ups are there maybe I could stretch to 250GB... Damn at least the 2 week lead in the US release date over the EU means someone can install an SSD and tell me if the perf. gap over a nice high density 7200rpm mechanical is worth it

 

[patsu]

Yap, looks like it's more meant for expanding the capacity.

The hybrid drive in my PS3 didn't make any noticeable differences too.

 

[novcze]

I already ditched the idea of SSD in PS4, I will go with the cheapest 1TB drive I can find in shop near me, which is WD Blue.
Stock 500GB from PS4 will end up in my PC.

 

[ERP]

If the software cap was removed for end users, then you would see some benefit from a faster drive, I just wouldn't go overboard on finding the fastest drive available.
Space will I think be more of an issue.

 

[Npl]

It only really matters to end users, you don't want to ship a game and have it fail on faster drives because of some race condition you didn't see in testing on a slower device.
Having said that, I think those types of issues are rare enough it's not a real win.

Err.... then have a TRC to test with faster drives, or even run from some large cache on dev boards. I never figured someone would have a race condition on I/O...

What would happen if later OS Versions free up a substantial amount of mem and use it for caching, and now suddenly you get a few assets instantaneously.

 

[Boxercide]

I'm thinking of jumping on that SSHD. 1TB for ~$80? That's a pretty nice spot.

 

[Grall]

What would happen if later OS Versions free up a substantial amount of mem and use it for caching, and now suddenly you get a few assets instantaneously.

Why would sony release memory for caching? That's pointless waste of RAM (in a console.)

 

[Npl]

Why would sony release memory for caching? That's pointless waste of RAM (in a console.)

Old games wont use more than they were, so the remainder can be

• unused
• used for stuff like caching

Which would be a pointless waste?

 

[Boxercide]

Guerrilla Games has released what they say is a 'lightly compressed', 1080p 60 fps video of Killzone Shadow Fall they would like people to download directly from them.

Unfortunately, there are limitations to streamed video, and many of the clips and trailers we've released thus far aren't being viewed in the best possible fidelity and framerate.

In order to properly demonstrate the framerate and resolution we achieve in Shadow Fall's multiplayer, we've captured and lightly compressed new footage that we're not offering through a video sharing service. Instead, we ask that you download and locally view the high-resolution, uncompressed footage directly from us.

Please use a video player with hardware acceleration when viewing the footage. We recommend Windows Media Player for Windows users and QuickTime Player for Mac users. Do not use a non-accelerated player (such as VLC Media Player) because the framerate and resolution of this movie are simply too high and will very likely cause choppy playback.

Click here to download the video. (ZIP archive, 541 MB)

The video you just saw has been captured from a multiplayer match on "The Park" (MP08). The map is based on one of the environments you'll encounter in the single player campaign, situated firmly behind enemy lines near the Visari tribute statue.

As you can probably tell from the footage, Killzone Shadow Fall multiplayer outputs at a native 1080p, rendering uncapped but always targeting 60fps. We're very pleased with how well the game runs, and we can't wait for you to play it come November 15.

 

[loekf]

Guerrilla Games has released what they say is a 'lightly compressed', 1080p 60 fps video of Killzone Shadow Fall they would like people to download directly from them.

Downloading now, but please WMP ? Who still uses WMP these days ?