PlayStation 4 (codename Orbis) technical hardware investigation (news and rumours)

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by Love_In_Rio, Jan 28, 2013.

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  1. dobwal

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    Why not?

    Couldn't AMD trustzone implementation mean a second "secured" OS running on the PS4? Where, any security function would fall under trustzone OS such "as arbitrating network and disk transactions, as well as handling automatic updates"?
     
    #2621 dobwal, Jul 16, 2013
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  2. 3dilettante

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    I'm going by the description of AMD's implementation of coprocessor model, where there is an x86 side and secured ARM side of the software.
    The A5 processor in that case would need the x86 CPUs as part of its function, while Sony has indicated quite a bit of autonomy for the custom processor.

    The A5 is the bare-minimum core AMD could have used for TrustZone, so contention between networking and disk management and the secure function calls from multiple Jaguar cores sounds like a potential performance bottleneck.
     
  3. patsu

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    One of the early rumors was Sony chose not to use TrustZone.

    The A5 is probably autonomous in order to manage the Southbridge. If it's used as a security processor at the same time, it may have some beefed up math capability to support the tiny/small security kernel (like the locked down SPU in PS3). Sony will probably keep the unit secret for obvious reasons.
     
  4. dobwal

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    From what I am reading the A5 serves a processor that controls the security subsystem. TZ can incorporate any part of the SOC into the secured enviroment as all parts of the SOC has to exist in either of the two states (non secured and secured). All security functions are handled by the secured world which can include the jags and gpu.

    Contention isn't a problem when the jags and gpu aren't active so couldn't background downloads by facilitated by the TZ processor when in a low power state?
     
    #2624 dobwal, Jul 17, 2013
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  5. patsu

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    In low power state, the main CPU should be off. The A5 will take over. There should be a small and specialized kernel running on that unit. Besides background download and Southbridge management, it may also handle firmware update.

    I suspect 3dilettante was referring to a more general and high level "OS".
     
  6. 3dilettante

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    My interpretation of the press surrounding the background processor is that it can continue its work even when the system is active, which opens the A5 up to the possibility of being called upon to load-balance network and disk traffic while being called by multiple CPU cores.

    AMD hasn't advertised a chip with the ability to run with the system wholly off save for the A5 and probably some memory and uncore, but that is just a lack of historical evidence rather than a requirement.
    A separate chip could allow for very low power consumption for a networked idle state, since historically APUs in that power range tend to idle at power levels higher than many embedded cores pull at load.
     
  7. patsu

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    To minimize contention, perhaps they may moderate "secondary" activities by having the main processor approve/signal the secondary CPU for running "distracting" side jobs (e.g., short segment of background download). May be some sort of prioritized job scheme ?
     
  8. arijoytunir

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exv-vReXXm8
     
  9. Love_In_Rio

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    I just read Tomshardware Kabini review and in the end it says this:

    Lastly, it's a bit of a bummer that neither Temash nor Kabini incorporate AMD's heterogeneous unified memory access (hUMA). This is the feature that will allow the GPU and CPU to share system memory without copying it back and forth, eliminating a massive source of latency in today's APUs. This is where we expect the company's SoCs to stand apart from some of the other highly-integrated processors being designed. Unfortunately, we won't see hUMA in a shipping APU until Kaveri is released later this year.

    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/kabini-a4-5000-review,3518-14.html

    Is this true? Kabini doesn´t support hUMA?. Then, PS4 is not hUMA neither?.
     
    #2629 Love_In_Rio, Jul 17, 2013
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  10. dumbo11

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    I finally found the reason for thinking it was on the southbridge...

    A translation on GAF of an interview with Cerny:
    http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=532077

     
  11. DieH@rd

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    Yes, Cerny said it clearly. Southbridge has an embedded CPU in it.
     
  12. Arwin

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    We already know that the PS4 has hUMA functionality (one pool of memory, addressable by both CPU and GPU). We also know that the PS4 has direct lines from CPU to GPU. So why are you still assuming that PS4 = Kabini?
     
  13. Love_In_Rio

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    Well, reading this:

    http://techreport.com/news/24737/amd-sheds-light-on-kaveri-uniform-memory-architecture

    I reach this conclussion:

    -Kabini has shared virtual (not physical) memory address space, still NUMA.
    -Kaveri will have shared physical memory address space, so it will be hUMA.

    Then PS4 is more like Kaveri than Kabini ?.
     
    #2633 Love_In_Rio, Jul 17, 2013
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  14. Arwin

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    That would be my working assumption, certainly.
     
  15. Shortbread

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    The DUH-D1000AA prototype Development Kit for PS4

    http://www.engadget.com/2013/07/16/sony-ps4-development-kit-fcc/

     
  16. 3dilettante

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    Per earlier in the thread:

    The FCC is more interested in the radio interference from the device, and at what frequencies. The CPU (or other component's) clock speed is not interesting to the FCC in the same way it would be to most of us.
     
  17. Kaotik

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    Also the "while maintaining a temperature between 5 and 35 degrees celsius" is just nonsense, what that says is the unit is designed to function in ambient temperatures between 5 and 35 degrees celsius, not that the units temperature would be 5 to 35 degrees celsius.
     
  18. gurgi

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    we should sign a petition that requires the FCC and other agencies to gather more interesting information!


    for regulatory purposes entirely! ;)
     
  19. Love_In_Rio

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    Yeah, very dangerously clocked cpus can open swormholes!.But maybe the FCC guys are Nintendo fans and dont give a shit about those things ;)
     
  20. Sander

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    Sure it makes no sense... even 1GB makes no sense.
    512MB was already decided, and it was WAY MUCH MORE than what they really needed... PS3 has 32MB... so 256MB is really enough, it´s all the cpu ram in PS3. 512MB is already waaay too much room to grow, I´m 99% sure Sony will not double it to 1GB. The fact they have doubled total RAM from 4GB to 8GB changes nothing the fact that 512MB is way beyond their practical needs.
     
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