pjbliverpool said:
SenatorMonkey said:
A poster already stated that a dual-core CPU with a PPU still uses up 25% of one of the cores....
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PhysX: PS3 can handle it; 360 features limited
- Thread starter aldo
- Start date
A poster already stated that a dual-core CPU with a PPU still uses up 25% of one of the cores....
BlueTsunami said:
which surely means it would take up 25% of a single core CPU aswell?
Alpha_Spartan said:
The PhysX chip is very similar to CELL, so architecturally portability between the Novodex SDK between the two should be a big plus. From a design perspective Novodex sees PC+PhysX, PS3, and Xbox 360. From an architecture standpoint the Xbox 360 is the odd man out.
While I expect the PS3 to do physics better when all things are said and done at the end of this gen, I will wait to see if other physics developers have the same issue. This could be a limiting factor on Xbox 360, or it could be the Novodex methods for dealing with physics. I tend to think it is the later considering their own chip.
Where this is relevant is UE3 is using Novodex, although I think Havok plugs in as well.
pjbliverpool said:
Probably (not to sure if one core of a dual-core CPU would translate to the same exact performance of a modest single core CPU]...but where do you get the...
pjbliverpool said:
what are you comparing?
mckmas8808
Legend
I think Deano and the Ninja Theory team is using Havok's physics engine right? I wonder what the Havok team will say later this week at the second conference? What is the date of that thing anyway?
mckmas8808 said:
The Eurographics conference actually finishes tomorrow. The site is here:
http://isg.cs.tcd.ie/eg2005/
The keynote was this:
I've yet to see any reporting on eurographics unfortunately
Other presentations of interest include:
COLLADA 1.4: Mastering next-generation 3D game assets (Sony) (http://isg.cs.tcd.ie/eg2005/IS3.html)
New games console architectures (ATI, IBM & NVIDIA) (http://isg.cs.tcd.ie/eg2005/IS4.html)
Next generation game technology (talks + panel) (http://isg.cs.tcd.ie/eg2005/IS5.html)
I kind of doubt we'll hear much of anything about it now.
Good point, but I think what Aegia were saying is that 75% of a single core isn't enough for all the other game stuff the processor needs to do. So though single CPU+PhysX would run the simulation at a decent speed it'd potentially slow the rest of the game down. Of course I guess that's maxing out the physics content which might well be overkill. Would anyone mind dropping 6000 rocks down to 3000? Still a lot of rocks!pjbliverpool said:
Alpha_Spartan
Regular
So what if we hear that Havok runs better on Xenon? What then. My point is that this is just one isolated SDK.mckmas8808 said:
I tried looking it up, but I couldn't find it, but I'd bet that the Cell implementation of the SDK is similar to that of the actual PPU, thus the advantage. I don't think they would go out of their way to optimize the SDK for the Xenon when they have their own hardware.
BlueTsunami said:
Im not saying thats the case, im just saying that from what we know so far, it could be. The reverse could also be true.
A more relevant question IMO is that when Cell is matching the PPU's peak performance (if it can) what does that leave over for everything else like Game control, vertice generation, AI etc... when compared to say a PPU coupled with a dual core Athlon?
If they don't optimize their engine for XB360 they'll lose out custom to those engines that ARE optimized, such as Havok. Unless they think the XB360 isn't going to be big enough to worry about, and if they think their PhysX chip for PC will outsell it I think they're being extremely optimisitc, it would be foolish to release a product without making it the best they could within their level of expertise.Alpha_Spartan said:
"The comparison was that on a single-core system, it ran at about 5fps and occupied the full processor. On a dual-core system with the PhysX chip, it ran at about 40fps, and took only 25% of one core."
http://playstation3.cz/redirect.php?url=http://www.overclockers.cl/news/ageia/ageia_en_02.htm
"Before publishing, we were able to get our hands on the PhysX SDK demo (recently named NovodeX Rocket) and we were able to record a video to show a bit more about AGEIA’s technology. This demo called “Jenga Tall†is composed of 360 bodies and the animation is quite smooth even though it is being done by the CPU. The bodies you will see in this video were manipulated in real time and no scripting of any sort was done. As a final note, one of the most impressive demos we found was called “Building Explodeâ€. This one handles more than 4000 bodies and the animation slows to a crawl, showing the need to have dedicated hardware for physics calculations as proposed by AGEIA."
... w/out the PhysX chip is PC in deep shit,speaking of PS3 games ports to PCs,and the Physx chip will become part of mainstream in horizont of 3 yrs,meanwhile will PS3 continue to maximalize its effectivity.
... good luck.
http://playstation3.cz/redirect.php?url=http://www.overclockers.cl/news/ageia/ageia_en_02.htm
"Before publishing, we were able to get our hands on the PhysX SDK demo (recently named NovodeX Rocket) and we were able to record a video to show a bit more about AGEIA’s technology. This demo called “Jenga Tall†is composed of 360 bodies and the animation is quite smooth even though it is being done by the CPU. The bodies you will see in this video were manipulated in real time and no scripting of any sort was done. As a final note, one of the most impressive demos we found was called “Building Explodeâ€. This one handles more than 4000 bodies and the animation slows to a crawl, showing the need to have dedicated hardware for physics calculations as proposed by AGEIA."
... w/out the PhysX chip is PC in deep shit,speaking of PS3 games ports to PCs,and the Physx chip will become part of mainstream in horizont of 3 yrs,meanwhile will PS3 continue to maximalize its effectivity.
... good luck.
Shifty Geezer said:
True, but 75% of what CPU? Are they talking an AthlonXP 2800+ or an FX57? If you need 90% of the AXP you probably only need about 60% of the FX57 for the same result.
Jawed
Legend
I'd love to see more evidence for this, in the form of an architectural overview of PPU...Acert93 said:
The diagram I remember seeing (and then losing, sigh) looked nothing like Cell. It consisted of lots of fixed-function blocks, 10-15 of them in total. Of course that might have been a logical architecture, rather than a physical one...
Jawed
pjbliverpool said:
Yeah...and I guess thats the problem with these comments about PhysX being good on the Cell compared to other settings. It would have been cool if they release a diagram of the exact numbers for each setup (so we could see exactly how much of Cell is devoting to the physics calculations, then compare it to the others)....but I guess we'll have to wait for that.
aldo said:
He didn't indulge in much tech talk - doesn't sound like he was as in the loop with regard to relative PS3 performance, for example, as the other guys doing these presentations. The " From what we understand, the Cell processor will have physics capabilities" bit is kind of funny from that perspective
Titanio said:He didn't indulge in much tech talk - doesn't sound like he was as in the loop with regard to relative PS3 performance, for example, as the other guys doing these presentations. The " From what we understand, the Cell processor will have physics capabilities" bit is kind of funny from that perspective
GS: Finally, what features would you like improve on your PPU design for the next version?
MH: Next generation PhysX processors will add additional processing capacity to support features such as hair and clothing simulation. Our goal is to simultaneously simulate many different physics effects so that the entire experience becomes richer. However, we are not in a position to announce specific details of a pre-released product at this time.
... PPU1,PPU2,PPU3 .. the begining of the end,total mess,each game has 5 versions /for single core,dual core,for PPU1 - no hairs,for PPU2 ... LOL/
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Alpha_Spartan
Regular
And if that's true, it explains the results and we know it was relatively easy to port PhysX code to the Cell. I don't believe they hard coded three different sets of code for the platforms. They just ported between platforms and the PC and the PS3 ran the fastest.Jawed said: