PGR4: New Snow on the Ring trailer

Just because your team can't do it, does mean others can't either ;)
I'm fine with that, there's always room for innovation and new stuff, they might have had some really cool idea about motion blur as I previously stated.
I still find very hard to believe that motion blur is real time, but again, there's no need for remarks like that, we can update this thread once the game comes out.
 
I'm fine with that, there's always room for innovation and new stuff, they might have had some really cool idea about motion blur as I previously stated.
I still find very hard to believe that motion blur is real time, but again, there's no need for remarks like that, we can update this thread once the game comes out.


Have to agree, as much as I enjoy the PGR series, Bizarre Creations (Polyphony Digital included) tend to HYPE things up with awesome cut-scenes & replay modes. Replay modes that have been fine tuned with heavier AA/AF and certain post processing effects they could not be used during real-time gameplay because of framerate constraints.
 
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Have to agree, as much as I enjoy the PGR series, Bizarre Creations (Polyphony Digital included) tend to HYPE things up with awesome cut-scenes & replay modes. Replay modes that have been fine tuned with heavier AA/AF and certain post processing effects they could not be used during real-time gameplay because of framerate constraints.

It is true that especially for car games PR/touched up/replay shots/videos are used with effects to make it look better. Such effects like DoF and motion-blur hides flaws and thus makes it look better giving a more sense of speed in line with reality.

This can be seen in the GT:HD, GT5, PGR3 replay versus ingame visaul IQ. The question is though to what extent, for example if the replays only add slightly better effects/lighting and DoF/motion-blur or add alot including better ingame models.

Amen, I think this thread is now complete :)

Already?!!!...oh man... ;)
 
Well, sooner or later some mod will come and will clean this mess.
Anyway I had the same doubts 3 years ago regarding GT4 and I wrote it here.
So I'm sorry for those delusional ppl that think I'm bashing 360 games, I'm just giving my opinion about what I see, no matter on which platform it runs on.
 
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1390/1288800554_3c5c5eda0e_o.gif

Was someone was complaining about the HDR and Bloom? The car model, lighting, shadows, and reflections are all great in this shot. Higher def video at the Gamersyde Intro video.
That bridge looks cool, trailers and gameplay have shown no such things so far. Is there any replay footage from an actual PGR4 game?

Have to agree, as much as I enjoy the PGR series, Bizarre Creations (Polyphony Digital included) tend to HYPE things up with awesome cut-scenes & replay modes. Replay modes that have been fine tuned with heavier AA/AF and certain post processing effects they could not be used during real-time gameplay because of framerate constraints.
That's a totally different issue, cut scenes and replays are realtime in these games but the PGR4 videos posted in this thread as 'in-game' use a kind of blur never seen in any realtime video games, it suggests >60fps rendering for a 30fps game. You know what I mean by comparing the PGR3 pre-release trailer and the actual replay scenes in PGR3.
 
According to Blim, he might have some good new footage this week. So I suppose we'll see more. With a lot of experience now on the 360, Bizarre just might be able to pull something out. We'll know soon enough. Personally, they should've pushed this game off to Nov. Let the Halo marketing blitz cool down a tad and focus on this game.

PGR3 was fun enough so PGR4 is an automatic buy until they really really screw up the formula.
 
Those videos are simply not realtime, motion blur is done compositing several intra-frames together.

I'm somewhat confused by this comment. It seems to me, if there is any composition it's limited to previous frame only. Why do you say intra-frames? I don't see any kind of "intra-stepping". And if it's limited to previous frame, do you think it's still not feasible in realtime?
 
Just saw this link:

http://www.n4g.com/xbox360/News-64875.aspx

Looks like someone out there is clearly monitoring this forum, guess I gotta watch what I say around here ;)

HAAAA, thats brilliant that news can be made out of that... Once the game finally arrives, it will create a stir one way or the other :... 'I told you so' or 'So they did actually pull that off'.

If it is bullshot rendering then, We aint ever gonna believe those lieing toe rags again !!!!

AMEN
 
Ingame doesn't neccessarily mean realtime graphics. Look at halo3 and how you can take 1920*1080 screenshots with AA from the movie replays... or, indeed, look at the Heavenly Sword wallpapers posted here previously ;)
 
Just saw this link:

http://www.n4g.com/xbox360/News-64875.aspx

Looks like someone out there is clearly monitoring this forum, guess I gotta watch what I say around here ;)
Oh..that's nice. And I don't even work for my friends at NT anymore, so the internet has reached a new low here. It's also nice how they put some words in my mouth and also some BC dev was cited as he was replying to me!
That's why I'll stop talking about the games I'm working on cause you can't prevent idiots to write stuff like that: "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me."
 
I still find very hard to believe that motion blur is real time,

Maybe they just went back to rendering at a smaller size, like 1024x600 or something like that? With a good motion blur, I'd wager the majority of people would not be able to tell the difference between 1280x720 and 1024x600 from typical viewing from the couch distance.

Or...since they don't need color info or stuff like that for the motion blur pass, maybe they just render 'n frames' per frame with blur data into a much smaller buffer, like 320x180, perhaps using vastly simplified models/shaders, then combine the data from those 'n frames' and use that in the blur pass on the final render target, which may still be a smaller 1024x600 size?
 
Oh..that's nice. And I don't even work for my friends at NT anymore, so the internet has reached a new low here. It's also nice how they put some words in my mouth and also some BC dev was cited as he was replying to me!

This is so stupid :mad: It isn't the first time you have commented on motion blur in general and the current techniques (I did a long post last year about how 60fps doesn't resolve object velocity and that MB was necessary; your response was the fuzzy trail wasn't something currently available outside the siloutte or such with the traditional/available techniques). Maybe BC has some tricks up their sleeves (which would make your initial comment harsh as matter of factly saying it wasn't realtime; your followup indeed opened the door for compromise) but we are slim on direct feed gameplay material right now.

Of course it doesn't help with the GT/FM/PGR console war crap, or the trolls running around stating false crap as truths (even in this thread... hello, there are links full of material and videos). Typically these big profile games get bashed a bit. When a dev says something, even if true, it is gonna get the "defence forces" out in full strength.

Ben (the community manager btw) did respond to your comments after you made them, too. He had stated earlier that it was ingame (someone else had asked over there on their forums), and later added the further clarifications after someone started a thread about NT developer calls BC Liars on B3D... Not that this matters.

Sorry to hear you aren't with your friends at NT. It is always nice to work with your friends on projects you enjoy.

That's why I'll stop talking about the games I'm working on cause you can't prevent idiots to write stuff like that: "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me."

I am sure that is one reason why ERP, Faf, Joker, etc don't say much about the games there are on.

Your willingness to share and give your opinion was in many ways VERY good for HS PR. It was well known that NT devs were here and they were active. And they contributed and answered questions, which formed a bond with many fans in the 'net gaming community. Of course anytime you step outside your own game, or have an opinion and wish to share it, there are always risks. It's not that your opinions are necessarily wrong (hehe you have corrected me a couple times more than I would like to remember!) but sometimes, as much as fans pester, there are areas it isn't worth going. I have noticed that some developers won't say a cross word about ANY game, or even a statement by a company. Maybe it is fear? Maybe it is they know how hard it is to make games (as you know too) and that it isn't fair to criticize a company's poor PR when, in the grand scheme, it doesn't matter.

I am sure most of us would miss your contributions, even if we agree/disagree with your position. In many ways, though, it would probably serve your projects better to talk about them and just ignore the rest of the industry and the fanboy drama people like to drum up.

Anyhow, as a non-next gen console owner, my observation from many forums and press readings is that DeanoC's and your interaction here were VERY positive for the vibe created among gamers online. Online gamers are movers and shakers, they talk, and they tell their friends what is hot and what they should get. I often find that the mainstream gamers who get minimal press have a different view of "games worth looking at" and tend to be stuff from big publishers who use their many titles to give exposure to other titles under their publishing umbrella.

I think what you guys did for HS was unique. And you didn't do it in a spammy way. You were here before the game was announced. And your contribution touched many topics of interest to the community.

Good luck on your future projects nAo, and don't let the hype mongering fansites get you down. If they do, do what I do: Take a vacation. See, you were fine until I came back and raised your blood pressure 40 points. I post some videos and BAM! :p
 
nao,

I see they updated the posting reflecting your departure from NT.

Also, I see no basis on why you shouldn't talk about YOUR future games. It's not your game that you commented on or the aritcle is discussing.
 
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Maybe they just went back to rendering at a smaller size, like 1024x600 or something like that? With a good motion blur, I'd wager the majority of people would not be able to tell the difference between 1280x720 and 1024x600 from typical viewing from the couch distance.

Or...since they don't need color info or stuff like that for the motion blur pass, maybe they just render 'n frames' per frame with blur data into a much smaller buffer, like 320x180, perhaps using vastly simplified models/shaders, then combine the data from those 'n frames' and use that in the blur pass on the final render target, which may still be a smaller 1024x600 size?

Rendering at that size was the biggest problem people had with the game last time. They might go with it again but that seems crazy to me that they would. Oh yeah would one of you guys mind checking your pm.
 
Surely you learned that in your AVS to B3D transition :p

Partly true ;) But I didn't think there would be people out there trolling forums looking for posts just to create drama where there isn't any, by making these tabloid style internet articles. That above article is particularly bad since nAo doesn't even work for NT anymore, but they are getting pulled into it because the author of the article didn't even bother to check facts. That's kinda fucked up if you ask me.

Anyways, if you ever wondered why devs rarely post on forums, well, now y'all know why.
 
Rendering at that size was the biggest problem people had with the game last time.

Was is really though? I thought it only became an issue when that little detail became publicly exposed. Did people even notice before that?

It's like when you audition two sets of speakers to someone. Let them listen to both and maybe they sound the same to them. Now, tell them that one pair costs $2000, and the other $500 and let them listen again. Suddenly the $2000 pair sounds clearly better.

I think there is a lot of psychology at play here. I would wager that, under certain conditions, most people would not be able to tell the difference between 1024x600 and 1280x720 at current tv sizes and viewing distances (~50 inch tv at ~10 feet distance) if they didn't know the details. In fact I'll take this one step further. I'd wager that in some cases the typical viewer would prefer the 1024x600 version, if the bandwidth savings were put to use on some extra visual tweaks and improvements.
 
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joker,

that same psychological effect is behind the 1080p push even though a 720p game with all the bells n' whistles likely be a better presentation over all.
 
Maybe they just went back to rendering at a smaller size, like 1024x600 or something like that? With a good motion blur, I'd wager the majority of people would not be able to tell the difference between 1280x720 and 1024x600 from typical viewing from the couch distance.
It's not really about the frame resolution, it's all about observing that the motion blur in those video is not, imho, achieved via the usual motion vector/post processing technique used already by a lot of games.
You can clearly see that cause with that technique you can't blur a car outside of its silhouette, moreover the quality of the motion blur is outstanding..it seems to be done taking a LOT of samples.
Or...since they don't need color info or stuff like that for the motion blur pass, maybe they just render 'n frames' per frame with blur data into a much smaller buffer, like 320x180, perhaps using vastly simplified models/shaders, then combine the data from those 'n frames' and use that in the blur pass on the final render target, which may still be a smaller 1024x600 size?
What you say here is maybe technically possible, but how many sub frames you have to render to achieve that quality?
I have no problems believing that that stuff is in game, but if it's rendered in real time then I hope they will publish an article about it as soon as possible..:)
 
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